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RE: what is a slave???? - 11/26/2006 8:23:23 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
...Are you of the opinion that being submissive precludes one from waking up next to their Master, serving his wish and whim every waking hour and submitting to his complete control as he calls all the shots?...


as this slave stated in the preamble to her previous post, this slave cannot speak for "a" slave or, as your question requires, "one"...only this slave, as it pertains to the Master/slave relationship that she is part of.
 
this slave is very sure that there are those who operate, with regards to their lives, in relatively the same manner as she does(as described briefly in her previous post) and yet call themselves submissive and not slave.  more power to them, so what, etc.
 
this slave is also sure that there are those who refer to themselves as submissive or slave and for this slave, relating to her own experience, they resemble neither, in her opinion.  this slave would never be so crass as to express it directly to them, or insensitive enough to try to invalidate their experience by trying to convince them that they aren't "real", just because this slave's experience is different than theirs.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 11/26/2006 8:24:20 PM >

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/26/2006 8:41:18 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Makes sense but then it doesn't to me. I've noticed that sometimes the only difference between a "slave" and a "submissive" it what they choose to call themselves, or what their master chooses to call them. But it's working for you and that is what matters!

That it the only point. A person defines what they are seeking. The definition can be broad or focused. The label applied doesn't matter. Fulfill the definition and you become the label assigned to the definition by the seeker. The decision is to live by the definition. The label is a short form reference more for others; however without knowing how it’s defined by the labeler it more confusing than clarifying. 

Which is why for the most part, it matters least what you call yourself.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/26/2006 9:28:44 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Makes sense but then it doesn't to me. I've noticed that sometimes the only difference between a "slave" and a "submissive" it what they choose to call themselves, or what their master chooses to call them. But it's working for you and that is what matters!

That it the only point. A person defines what they are seeking. The definition can be broad or focused. The label applied doesn't matter. Fulfill the definition and you become the label assigned to the definition by the seeker. The decision is to live by the definition. The label is a short form reference more for others; however without knowing how it’s defined by the labeler it more confusing than clarifying. 

Which is why for the most part, it matters least what you call yourself.


So, because I must be the devil's advocate, what you would do if your slave completed all the tasks of a slave but wished to be known as something different? Say, submissive, kitten, pet or something else?

Please don't be offended, I am just curious.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 2:47:43 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

juliet when we made love you used to cry



Hey! I don't even KNOW you!!

... so...was it good for you?...

juliet

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 4:07:50 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		 I use the word *slave* as it is a far closer decription of my situation than using * submissive*....in bdsm circles.

I'm not hugely fond of either term for myself.

I can't, in all seriousness, use the term *submissive* because I'm not and I have no desire to be, nor do I have a *need* or desire to be.

I DID, however, give someone else the authority to direct my life and to force me to follow that direction.

It may be self-imposed, ( which is why neither term sits that well with me), but regardless of that......the mental acceptance of the fact that he is perfectly free to FORCE me, by whatever means at his disposal........means that *slave* is the only term that applies, at present.

If I wasn't in this relationship, I would simply be a * person*.

agirl



(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 4:48:33 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
'Back in the day', there was quite a distinction between a wife and a girlfriend. A wife made the vows and had both the wedding ring and the piece of paper to validate her position...her 'title' if you will. She made a commitment for life and it was acceptable for her to have children within the marriage. Divorce really was not an option or at the least, it was frowned upon.
 
The girlfriend, on the other hand, bore no such commitment. She did not live with the boyfriend, she was free to leave the relationship if she so desired, and having kids outside of marriage was a big no-no.
 
But as we can all see, these roles have merged drastically. People no longer have to be married to live together and have kids. With the divorce rate, live ins often stay together longer than marrieds. And in some states, if you live with your partner long enough, you are legally considered his wife, even without the ring and the piece of paper.
 
i think this same trend has spread across the D/s lifestyle as well. i can recall early on hearing of slaves who were actually collared at collaring ceremonies, in front of their community. That was what receiving a collar and ownership was really about. But, let's see...nowadays we have:
 
Online slaves who are collared without ever meeting their Master in RL.
We have the 'Insta-slave' who is on CM 2 weeks, meet a dom, is collared, she then becomes a slave and he a Master.
We have slaves with limits, and slaves with no limits.
We have slaves who live with their Masters, and slaves who don't.
We have slaves who blindly obey, and others who don't. Slaves who can ask questions and others who can't. Slaves who have input in decisions, and other who don't. Slaves with safewords, and slaves without.
Some slaves turn over all rights, including their money.....and others do not.
We have slaves who submit once and can never leave, and slaves who submit once but can leave, and when they do leave, they wonder if they are still a slave.
We have Gor slaves.
And we have the 'slave for a day' (okay, so i made that one up....lol)
 
So does every person who gets a collar automatically qualify as a slave?
 
And then we have the submissive....who supposedly submits and renegotiates on a daily basis. Yes....every day she wakes up and thinks 'Hmmm...do i really feel like submitting today?' 'That rule Sir made yesterday just doesn't sit right with me. Think i'll tell him that's a hard limit today and if he doesn't like it, oh well. Too bad for him.' It often sounds like they don't give their all.....like they have no real 'stake' in the relationship....much like the girlfriend of old.
 
But i still don't see such a distinction. Because a Dom calls himself a Dom, or Sir, or Lord, or Daddy...or whatever....and chooses to call his partner a sub instead of a slave, makes their relationship no less committed than an M/s couple....not in this day and age anyway. And what about subs who are with their partners for years? Are they really any less committed to staying in that relationship than a slave? Is a sub with a Dom of 10 years any less of anything than a slave? And if her partner knows her better than the newly proclaimed slave, does that make her less than that slave?  If people stay in relationships long enough, i think they share pretty much the same dynamic with trust and love and limits, etc, regardless of what they call themselves. i think duration has a lot to do with it.
 
So CP, you can search the ends of the earth for a defining point between a slave and a sub and i think all you will come up with ultimately is whatever term is agreed upon by those in the relationship.
 
Well, i am off to work here shortly. This was fun!     Maybe i'll have some more great thoughts while i 'slave away' at my desk today 
 
Have a great day all!
 
DG

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 4:59:12 AM   
twicehappy


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Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

Wouldnt be the first time, so nothin new.. besides My hose is pretty damn long, I could prolly nail 8 or 9 posters if it gets to that!  LOL


I am sending Happy a tape measure, i want proof.
 
(Ooooppps, sorry, SLT, not the hose you were talking about!)

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 5:03:09 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		There isn't a distinction, it's mainly what people want to call themselves.  Personally, I would never want to be called "slave", at least not for the purposes of discussion on a message board.  I think that word has negative connotations, and many people feel that slaves are doormats and have no minds and no limits, and I don't want to present myself like that. 

If my Dom wants to refer to me as his "slave" (as in a form of "ownership"), that's a different situation, and I have no problem with that, because we know what the word means to us.

edit spelling


< Message edited by KatyLied -- 11/27/2006 5:04:22 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 5:38:23 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

There isn't a distinction, it's mainly what people want to call themselves.  Personally, I would never want to be called "slave", at least not for the purposes of discussion on a message board.  I think that word has negative connotations, and many people feel that slaves are doormats and have no minds and no limits, and I don't want to present myself like that. 

If my Dom wants to refer to me as his "slave" (as in a form of "ownership"), that's a different situation, and I have no problem with that, because we know what the word means to us.

edit spelling



I can understand that, in a way.

I don't really care how anyone *views* me from my profile and what's displayed there (or what's not, as the case may be....lol).

What I'm like will be evident over any length of time, whatever, *term* is used there.

The fact that I consider myself owned can't be disputed.........but if I described myself as *submissive*, it most certainly could be.

agirl








(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 6:32:33 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		The definition of a slave is used in this Master's house to define one who is or seeks to be owned, and is seeking to yield themselves to the will of another, for the other's pleasure consistently.
 
In His way of teaching, this reaches beyond everyday obediences. It becomes the quality of yielding that separates the slaves from the submissives.
 
Yielding for another's pleasure is significant. It is the desire to be held to a level of integrity that defies personal gratification at times. It is reaching beyond the limits of what is comfortable/desired and being able to yield selflessly that defines a slave. It is often the nuances of enslavement that best define it, such as yielding in conversation; dressing as pleases Him when the slave is not empowered by the dress, but by the pleasure in the Master's eyes; learning from Master's criticism regardless of how it is expressed; and having His ownership reflected in how a slave conducts themselves even when He is not around, to name a few.
A slave finds this kind of TPE to be the path of self discovery, and freedom in being refined, redesigned, and reinvented at the hand of a Master, where others have a different idea about such a dynamic...
 
This is what works for U/us.
Humbly,
Master's dorei

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 7:17:48 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

So, because I must be the devil's advocate, what you would do if your slave completed all the tasks of a slave but wished to be known as something different? Say, submissive, kitten, pet or something else?

Please don't be offended, I am just curious.


Not offended at all.

Two issues with your question. #1 - Along with many other surrendered 'rights', beth has no vote or say in what she is called. If, all things considered, she complied with all responsibilities and tasks but had an issue of what I called her; it would indicate that she was not fully surrendering. It would mean she wasn't mentally surrendering which, as far as my definition is concerned, is most essential. I would see it as symptomatic of a bigger potential problem down the road. It would have excluded her from my service.

Issue #2. In general I don't particularly like the use of the word 'slave'. I think it is a disservice to those who live as slaves in the world today as well as in the past. However, I always have difficulty with the pronunciation of kajari, and there is no other acceptable, short-cut, labeling word. The association with the general definition may be confusing however, as I said, it serves as a quick reference and I'm happy to explain its use in the context of our relationship.

It took much time and mutual consideration before we entered into this relationship and became Master/slave. We followed up many days of discussions and correspondence by documenting our understanding and expectations of the responsibilities each of us assumed. Here again, there is a label used for this document - ‘contract’. However, its neither legal or binding although we both signed it and consummated it by marking our bodies with tattoos.

We are both educated and reasonably intelligent people. Pragmatically we know legally the contract isn’t binding. We know that I’m a Master and beth is my “slave” only in our relationship’s context. It’s important to us. It matters to us. It’s binding to us. It matters to us. Out commitment to the agreed upon and documented relationship would be as strong if the labels were different, but introductions would take a lot longer.

Look at two other commonly used and accepted labels; husband/wife. Do you think everyone who uses these labels is exactly the same? Do you think another couple, not married, using the label ‘significant other’ can’t be as much in love, or be as intense, or as committed because they don’t use the label husband/wife? Isn’t it silly to focus on the label instead of the relationship?

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 7:36:25 AM   
AuburnLady40


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

 I use the word *slave* as it is a far closer decription of my situation than using * submissive*....in bdsm circles.

I'm not hugely fond of either term for myself.

I can't, in all seriousness, use the term *submissive* because I'm not and I have no desire to be, nor do I have a *need* or desire to be.

I DID, however, give someone else the authority to direct my life and to force me to follow that direction.

It may be self-imposed, ( which is why neither term sits that well with me), but regardless of that......the mental acceptance of the fact that he is perfectly free to FORCE me, by whatever means at his disposal........means that *slave* is the only term that applies, at present.

If I wasn't in this relationship, I would simply be a * person*.

agirl





I agree with your assessment of the definition of "slave" moreso then any other I've read in this thread.  A slave has no free will, either by choice or by force.  They are to submit to the whim and will of those that own them, period.  Whether or not their own needs (emotional and/or physical) are met is inconsequential and irrelevent. There are no limits unless deemed so by their owner.
I equate a submissive to a willow tree, as they'll bend to the force that pushes against them to their limit, but after the force has lessened, they'll return to their original state of being. A submissive embraces it's resiliency.

IMHO


_____________________________

One good turn gets most of the blankets.

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RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 10:47:23 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

And then we have the submissive....who supposedly submits and renegotiates on a daily basis. Yes....every day she wakes up and thinks 'Hmmm...do i really feel like submitting today?' 'That rule Sir made yesterday just doesn't sit right with me. Think i'll tell him that's a hard limit today and if he doesn't like it, oh well. Too bad for him.' It often sounds like they don't give their all.....like they have no real 'stake' in the relationship....much like the girlfriend of old.
 
But i still don't see such a distinction. Because a Dom calls himself a Dom, or Sir, or Lord, or Daddy...or whatever....and chooses to call his partner a sub instead of a slave, makes their relationship no less committed than an M/s couple....not in this day and age anyway. And what about subs who are with their partners for years? Are they really any less committed to staying in that relationship than a slave? Is a sub with a Dom of 10 years any less of anything than a slave? And if her partner knows her better than the newly proclaimed slave, does that make her less than that slave?  If people stay in relationships long enough, i think they share pretty much the same dynamic with trust and love and limits, etc, regardless of what they call themselves. i think duration has a lot to do with it.
 
So CP, you can search the ends of the earth for a defining point between a slave and a sub and i think all you will come up with ultimately is whatever term is agreed upon by those in the relationship.
 
Well, i am off to work here shortly. This was fun!     Maybe i'll have some more great thoughts while i 'slave away' at my desk today 
 
Have a great day all!
 
DG


I have no idea what submissives you have been talking to. I never question his orders. We discuss them and then I obey them without question. I am a submissive because I am not a slave. I retain the right to go "No you may not shove that up my ass without lube or pre-work". Basically, I retain the right to make sure I am cared for. This does not make my submission any less.

One does not "feel like" submitting. One is a submissive or one is not.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 10:56:22 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

So, because I must be the devil's advocate, what you would do if your slave completed all the tasks of a slave but wished to be known as something different? Say, submissive, kitten, pet or something else?

Please don't be offended, I am just curious.


Not offended at all.

Two issues with your question. #1 - Along with many other surrendered 'rights', beth has no vote or say in what she is called. If, all things considered, she complied with all responsibilities and tasks but had an issue of what I called her; it would indicate that she was not fully surrendering. It would mean she wasn't mentally surrendering which, as far as my definition is concerned, is most essential. I would see it as symptomatic of a bigger potential problem down the road. It would have excluded her from my service.

Issue #2. In general I don't particularly like the use of the word 'slave'. I think it is a disservice to those who live as slaves in the world today as well as in the past. However, I always have difficulty with the pronunciation of kajari, and there is no other acceptable, short-cut, labeling word. The association with the general definition may be confusing however, as I said, it serves as a quick reference and I'm happy to explain its use in the context of our relationship.

It took much time and mutual consideration before we entered into this relationship and became Master/slave. We followed up many days of discussions and correspondence by documenting our understanding and expectations of the responsibilities each of us assumed. Here again, there is a label used for this document - ‘contract’. However, its neither legal or binding although we both signed it and consummated it by marking our bodies with tattoos.

We are both educated and reasonably intelligent people. Pragmatically we know legally the contract isn’t binding. We know that I’m a Master and beth is my “slave” only in our relationship’s context. It’s important to us. It matters to us. It’s binding to us. It matters to us. Out commitment to the agreed upon and documented relationship would be as strong if the labels were different, but introductions would take a lot longer.

Look at two other commonly used and accepted labels; husband/wife. Do you think everyone who uses these labels is exactly the same? Do you think another couple, not married, using the label ‘significant other’ can’t be as much in love, or be as intense, or as committed because they don’t use the label husband/wife? Isn’t it silly to focus on the label instead of the relationship?


Thank you for your well thought out answer.

I do realize that husband, wife, slave and submissive mean different things to different people. But because they mean so many different things is why I have some trouble with the concept of "my partner must identify herself as a slave, regardless of her ability and desire to complete the tasks I lay out before her". I hope you understand that.

In honestly, if my beloved ever desired to move our relationship to master/slave, I would probably be happy. For me the problem is the word. I have a mental issue with it because it imples non-consent to me and my submission is completely consentual as I am so eager to please him. I do not know what word we would choose, but hopefully we could find something that suited us both and would convey the same meaning but ring of joyful service. Or perhaps, after talking about it, I would be able to resolve my problem with the word.

Thank you again.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 10:59:23 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

To those I ask if you might define in print, as long as you refer to yourselves as such,, just what is a slave compared to a submissive, collared or not.

CP


As a submissive, I could make the choice to leave and not lose the essence of myself. As a slave, I cannot.


Celeste


Yes. I really *get* what you are saying here. I would echo the sentiment.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 11:32:45 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I do realize that husband, wife, slave and submissive mean different things to different people. But because they mean so many different things is why I have some trouble with the concept of "my partner must identify herself as a slave, regardless of her ability and desire to complete the tasks I lay out before her". I hope you understand that.


Aquatic,
I'd comment that the reason for so many divorces is that it is rare for people to discuss, let alone document what husband/wife means to them, and what responsibilities are assumed, prior to getting married. Relying on others' definitions, or worse the media view, dooms most to fail.

Therein could be where your issue with my position may lay. Your emphasis on this; "my partner must identify herself as a slave, regardless of her ability and desire to complete the tasks I lay out before her."; requires specific focus. beth does not have to identify as 'A slave'. I have no such requirement. she must identify as 'MY slave'. There is a huge difference. Also, she wasn't allowed to make that 'last' personal decision to be my slave, until I was sure she understood exactly, completely, and equally to me, my definition of 'slave'. No, it wasn't possible to compromise.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/27/2006 11:40:00 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Aquatic,
I'd comment that the reason for so many divorces is that it is rare for people to discuss, let alone document what husband/wife means to them, and what responsibilities are assumed, prior to getting married. Relying on others' definitions, or worse the media view, dooms most to fail.

Therein could be where your issue with my position may lay. Your emphasis on this; "my partner must identify herself as a slave, regardless of her ability and desire to complete the tasks I lay out before her."; requires specific focus. beth does not have to identify as 'A slave'. I have no such requirement. she must identify as 'MY slave'. There is a huge difference. Also, she wasn't allowed to make that 'last' personal decision to be my slave, until I was sure she understood exactly, completely, and equally to me, my definition of 'slave'. No, it wasn't possible to compromise.


I believe I understand better now. While I could not be "a" slave, I know in my heart that I would happily be "his" slave.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/28/2006 3:22:13 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

And then we have the submissive....who supposedly submits and renegotiates on a daily basis. Yes....every day she wakes up and thinks 'Hmmm...do i really feel like submitting today?' 'That rule Sir made yesterday just doesn't sit right with me. Think i'll tell him that's a hard limit today and if he doesn't like it, oh well. Too bad for him.' It often sounds like they don't give their all.....like they have no real 'stake' in the relationship....much like the girlfriend of old.
 


I have no idea what submissives you have been talking to. I never question his orders. We discuss them and then I obey them without question. I am a submissive because I am not a slave. I retain the right to go "No you may not shove that up my ass without lube or pre-work". Basically, I retain the right to make sure I am cared for. This does not make my submission any less.

One does not "feel like" submitting. One is a submissive or one is not.


Aqua,
 
You may have misunderstood my point here.  Haven't you heard that expression that a slave submits once but a sub submits daily? (or it's something like that)  i was actually trying to make a point of how ridiculous that sounds. 
 
my entire post was trying to point out that subs, particularly those in LTRs, do not wake up every day and decide if they're going to submit no more than a slave in a LTR does.  Do you see what i am saying?
 
DG

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/28/2006 4:42:34 AM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

Wouldnt be the first time, so nothin new.. besides My hose is pretty damn long, I could prolly nail 8 or 9 posters if it gets to that!  LOL


I am sending Happy a tape measure, i want proof.
 
(Ooooppps, sorry, SLT, not the hose you were talking about!)


Welll by gawd I'll jus whip it ...heheh.. Nope. she done beat ya too it cuz she has one already! Actually two, one wooden and one metal and there both Mine. Not only are they good fer measurin things there handy dandy asswarmers too!  Otherwise iffin ya need more proof ya better consult with your Owners first! LMFAO!!!!

< Message edited by SirLordTrainer -- 11/28/2006 4:44:31 AM >

_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: what is a slave???? - 11/28/2006 8:21:27 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

Wouldnt be the first time, so nothin new.. besides My hose is pretty damn long, I could prolly nail 8 or 9 posters if it gets to that!  LOL


I am sending Happy a tape measure, i want proof.
 
(Ooooppps, sorry, SLT, not the hose you were talking about!)
 

Otherwise iffin ya need more proof ya better consult with your Owners first! LMFAO!!!!



Lol, they do not care if i look!  Tease!

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
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