quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez
Drama and attention addicts take minor or short term feelings and do the passive aggresive thing to feed the feelings until they reach a stage to boil over and create the drama and attention that you refer to. People who hide their feelings that are so serious in nature that it goes to core issues in a relationship and eventual harm that relationship are very much doing the opposite. Hiding feelings to try to avoid the drama and attention to them or the acutal problems.

Communication is of course the key. Ones truly hiding have difficult in expression and drama queens it has less to do with communication and more to do with in some way enjoying the whole play they create. To me two very different issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez
Drama and attention addicts take minor or short term feelings and do the passive aggresive thing to feed the feelings until they reach a stage to boil over and create the drama and attention that you refer to. People who hide their feelings that are so serious in nature that it goes to core issues in a relationship and eventual harm that relationship are very much doing the opposite. Hiding feelings to try to avoid the drama and attention to them or the acutal problems.

Communication is of course the key. Ones truly hiding have difficult in expression and drama queens it has less to do with communication and more to do with in some way enjoying the whole play they create. To me two very different issues.

I don't think they are doing the opposite.  I think they are just employing different methods and end up in the same place.  It's all based in insecurity.

I understand to the person INVOLVED, their rationalizing tells them that they are just trying to avoid the drama and "be good" and "not burden others" but it's really just another way of being self centered and insecure. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

At first I typed this generically, but in rereading, I realized you asked specifically about the behavior of submissives, so I changed this up to more appropriately address your question. However, any of these things can be easily switched around so that the roles are reversed.

I don't think relationships generally end in one fell swoop. Most of the time, it's the accumulation of "the little things." It's the time the submissive calls and the Dominant is unavailable  - over and over again. By the time the two people see each other, the submissive is just so happy that they are finally seeing each other that he/she says nothing. The submissive honestly believes that he or she has let it go and it's no big deal. But it is. Our minds are nifty little catalogs - even when we don't want them to be, and even when we don't plan them to be. That moment just gets stored away up there and when things are a bit more difficult, that memory and many others get brought out, almost in list form.

It's the time the submissive did try to talk to the other person and chose the wrong time, the wrong day, the wrong way to attempt this. Instead of listening and trying to understand what the submissive was saying, the dominant got defensive, and said things that gave the impression that the submissive's position in that relationship was nebulous at best. From that moment on, that "threat" (even if not intended as a threat) makes itself known and the submissive who was trying to talk about what he or she felt starts to censor what he or she says. Very rarely, in my experience do we get past this threat once issued - and we carry it to other relationships, watching what we say so that we never get issued that threat.

It's the times when Dominants feel that simple signs of affection are somehow not a part of what a D/s relationship is. I guess it's a fear of being that vulnerable - I don't know. Don't tell someone you care, and eventually, the person not being told begins to think that the feelings aren't there. The submissive simply get tired of waiting to hear they're valued and begin the process of preparing to move on. On into the catalog those feelings go.

It happens in those first few conversations we have with each other when we're busy being defensive and are still trying to protect ourselves and we hear from the dominant, "if you don't like something, the best thing is to just walk away." That's great at the beginning, but later on, when our hearts are involved, our fears then become "if he doesn't like what I say, he'll leave." We say nothing. That fear was already in our catalog.

Yes, many of these, if not all of these have to deal with insecurity, and yes, there are some people out there who are so secure they'd never ever ever take part in these examples, but I'd venture to say, and with no data to back me up, that most of us face many of these situations often. And they're never really intended - or even hoped for.

The other side of that insecurity coin though is that if dominants are taking the lead, they have to realize that HOW they lead often creates environments where we say nothing, out of fear we're jeopardizing the very thing that  NOT saying anything jeopardizes.

It's mixed up. It's really mixed up.

juliet

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Sometimes a subs feelings may actually hinder a relationship - so instead of speaking out - she chooses to work through it herself.  

You know, I have been on the end of that in my last relationship.  It's really great if what she works through ends up making the relationship stronger.  I suppose its great (for her)if she works through what she is going through and decides she will be better off elsewhere.  When it is not so great is when it is something vital to the relationship and means its survival/destruction and no matter what happens = survival or destruction...it doesn't get talked about when all the inner work is done.  If the relationship survives, there is this idea on the submissive's part that "Hey, I've worked it out in my own head about how to deal with/change this-me so I don't need to share with him what I've discovered.  Better left unsaid...".  If the relationship is ended, there is the idea that "No use talking about it...he didn't listen wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy back when this all started...why should I give him any reasons now why I am walking out the door?"  In either case...success or failure...no communication has taken place.  Now, if the dominant has been so dense/self-absorbed that he has not even picked up on the fact that something is wrong and asked...maybe that treatment is deserved.  If the dominant has been aware and it has been withheld anyway, then where is the communication that so many so they "crave"?

Personally, I know that after that experience I have had a very hard time restraining myself from asking those in my life almost constantly "So what's going on?  Everything going O.K. for you?  Anything we should talk about?"  My unmentionables have especially caught the brunt of this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous
I expect individuals including me to get red marks worked off ASAP. If a red mark is there too long I will get involved to see to the happiness of all in my family. I will reward green marks. I am open to more suggestions or ways to improve anything.

quote:

I am an empath so you can't hide from me something is wrong, but what it is you may hide. In all cases they all said they tried to save the relationship untill it got too late, in all cases they hid the truth about something I could have changed or fixed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

At first I typed this generically, but in rereading, I realized you asked specifically about the behavior of submissives, so I changed this up to more appropriately address your question. However, any of these things can be easily switched around so that the roles are reversed.

I don't think relationships generally end in one fell swoop. Most of the time, it's the accumulation of "the little things." It's the time the submissive calls and the Dominant is unavailable  - over and over again. By the time the two people see each other, the submissive is just so happy that they are finally seeing each other that he/she says nothing. The submissive honestly believes that he or she has let it go and it's no big deal. But it is. Our minds are nifty little catalogs - even when we don't want them to be, and even when we don't plan them to be. That moment just gets stored away up there and when things are a bit more difficult, that memory and many others get brought out, almost in list form.

It's the time the submissive did try to talk to the other person and chose the wrong time, the wrong day, the wrong way to attempt this. Instead of listening and trying to understand what the submissive was saying, the dominant got defensive, and said things that gave the impression that the submissive's position in that relationship was nebulous at best. From that moment on, that "threat" (even if not intended as a threat) makes itself known and the submissive who was trying to talk about what he or she felt starts to censor what he or she says. Very rarely, in my experience do we get past this threat once issued - and we carry it to other relationships, watching what we say so that we never get issued that threat.

It's the times when Dominants feel that simple signs of affection are somehow not a part of what a D/s relationship is. I guess it's a fear of being that vulnerable - I don't know. Don't tell someone you care, and eventually, the person not being told begins to think that the feelings aren't there. The submissive simply get tired of waiting to hear they're valued and begin the process of preparing to move on. On into the catalog those feelings go.

It happens in those first few conversations we have with each other when we're busy being defensive and are still trying to protect ourselves and we hear from the dominant, "if you don't like something, the best thing is to just walk away." That's great at the beginning, but later on, when our hearts are involved, our fears then become "if he doesn't like what I say, he'll leave." We say nothing. That fear was already in our catalog.

Yes, many of these, if not all of these have to deal with insecurity, and yes, there are some people out there who are so secure they'd never ever ever take part in these examples, but I'd venture to say, and with no data to back me up, that most of us face many of these situations often. And they're never really intended - or even hoped for.

The other side of that insecurity coin though is that if dominants are taking the lead, they have to realize that HOW they lead often creates environments where we say nothing, out of fear we're jeopardizing the very thing that  NOT saying anything jeopardizes.

It's mixed up. It's really mixed up.

juliet

• I didn't see the significance of their value, and did not want to bother or burden him with them.
  
• I didn't want to hurt his feelings if they were unflattering
  
• I wanted so much to be pleasing and well thought of, and these feelings would probably upset him.
  
• I was afraid he would be angry or upset about them, and I have not had good and healthy experiences with the anger of others.
  
• I didn't see the "bigger picture" and therefore could not see how my feelings fit into it.  So, I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
  
• I never learned how to express myself appropriately, which never rendered me good results in the past (not with my Master, but in general) so I stopped trying or was too afraid to try.
  
• I thought he would not like them, and wouldn't want me anymore (insecurity).
  
• Embarrassment

quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous

Also the removal of the red mark will only be done by the poster, once any issues are addressed. I, as I said, will reward those getting green marks, I hope to reward all every day in a way they enjoy. Again I am open to suggestions and ideas to improve myself or anything I can.