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RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 7:33:34 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		juliet, that is, quite honestly, one of the best, well-written responses to a thread i've ever read.  Now, if we could just get every Master/Dom/Mistress/Domme to read it, grasp it and understand it. :)

Thank you for finding the words for what, i imagine, many have felt, but have never been able to put their finger on it. 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 7:54:19 PM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		I expect my family to be cohesive and to eat together atleast once a day if possible and to have family play and talk sessions where all are free to vent. I hope everyone is honest on the board, and one may delay a red mark till they feel comfortable posting it, plus the required journal writting will let me see what is on their minds when they are ready to write it. At this point though if someone wants to hide something, though I know something is wrong, I know of no way to get them to tell me short of beating it out of them, and I know that is wrong, especially if I was wrong to begin with. Thank you all for responding but I am still confused about what to do if they do not communicate their true feelings in any way. I am thinking perhaps encouraging them to tell a sister or brother slave about what is wrong to relay it to me? It might work. I am open to any suggestions and have adopted a few from here already.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 8:31:18 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		....Not having been in a poly family or such,I am not sure any suggestion I make will be valid..but maybe you can have a box where someone can write of a difficulty or issue annonymously, then when together as a family you can discuss it with all, still without knowing senders identity...OR...you can partner as you said like minded individuals for each to confide in...a inner circle partner so to speak..they confide to this person whatever,, whenever  they need to and if they both cannot see a good way to reslove the problem then the one confided to and the one with the problem will come to you for resoluton....Tempting...

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 9:16:00 PM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		julietsierra - Wow!  I've just copied and pasted your 1st post in this thread (haven't read past that, you may have more) and I'm going to show it to my partner.  It explains very well something that's been a real issue between us in our relationship, all after him getting very upset with me when I wanted to discuss a problem I had with him and telling me that I'd "picked the worst possible time to bring this up" and saying that I "didn't even think at all" about how it would effect him since he was already very stressed.  Little did he acknowlege that I had carried that problem with me for 2 months already because of not wanting to "ruin his day" knowing he had a lot to contend with at work and with some family issues.

That was 2+ years ago, it still effects me.  I've explained it as best I could before, on more than one occasion, but maybe reading it the way you've put it will speak to him differently.

Thanks for that

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 9:40:56 PM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Actually a lot of suggestions that have been made I tryed and still use. I believe good communication is the key to any good relationship as is friendship, many once the relationship grows forget to still be friends. I am still seeking new and better ways to get and keep good communication as well as to improve myself. Any suggestions will be taken to heart.

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Truth - 12/1/2006 11:03:04 PM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, I am still trying to figure out this post thing so I may make mistakes, only human, I also may need spellcheck.

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 12:12:46 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

And if I feel that I am unable to express my feelings about something to him on the phone or face to face, I find it much easier to send them in an email.  That gives me time to think out what I want to say, and it gives him time to deal with what I'm sharing without having to give an immediate response. 



In a past relationship, i would do this same thing.  If something was bothering me and i (for whatever reasons) was not able to address it either by phone or face to face, i would send him an email.  Yes, it gave me time to think of what i wanted to say as i wrote it (instead of just blurting something out, out of frustration or anger)....and it gave him time to think about a response....instead of possibly being put on the spot and instantly reacting negatively.   Also, if he had a bad day, or a lot of things on his mind, etc, it would again give him a chance to digest what i was saying perhaps when he was in a little 'better place'.
 
A while back, i was talking with a dom (over the phone, we had not yet met) and something was bothering me.  As much as he encouraged open communication, i just knew it was going to be an unpleasant topic.  So i  basically told him there was something i really needed to talk to him about but it was hard for me as i felt it was going to be an unpleasant topic.  But he said 'Go ahead'.
 
Because i had time to think about it and felt a bit nervous but overall calm, i was able to present the issue quite respectfully.  The reply?  Dead silence!  So there i sat.  And we were on cell phones so i actually said "Are you still there?'    It was actually quite awful and at that point, i wished i had written it instead.  i think that would have given him a chance to really think about it and would have saved us both that moment of 'dead silence'.  As juliet said, that was then stored into my 'catalog' for future reference.
 
But i think this is about a couple of things.  One is that because most guys do not handle their feelings the same as females, they do not understand this negative processing.  Unbenknownst to him, a knee jerk reaction on his part can cause lasting effects that he is not even aware of. 
 
And the other thing is....so many say that open communication is absolutely necessary but in most cases, when it comes to an unpleasant topic....one that involves something he is doing....many guys will go into self defense mode.  i'm sure we've all seen it.  The guy who starts screaming, somehow blames you, tells you 'not now', becomes silent, walks out, etc.  All these reactions put up walls for future open communication....and even after the issue is talked over and seems resolved....the next time is not going to be easier.  And that is how we learn to keep things to ourselves.
 
i don't really have an answer for the OP if someone just, for some reason, cannot discuss disturbing issues.  But i think what is really important is they find a way that is comfortable for them to be able to open up.  For me, it was through emails....for others, it may be something different.  And it may not hurt to ask each one what procedure they feel they could use to at least present the unpleasant feeling....at least if it can be brought out in the open, then the dom has the chance to think of his reaction.  Obviously not knowing is far worse.
 
DG

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 2:22:13 AM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		I try not to have knee jerk reactions, I do walk away sometimes just to think how I went wrong. I am the Trainer and Master, it is always partly my fault if not completly my fault. I am 100% sure I am at fault many times and that to do right I need to change me not them. I want my families input to make me a better person and a better Master. I always ask for it, I just do not always get it. I do not punish whem angry, I discipline first, then talk it over and see if a punishment is needed, and if I do something wrong I accept a form of punishment too, it is only fair.

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 4:31:00 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I don't see how this green/red thing will do anything but devolve into a way to be avenged of past hurts. Especially if you are demanding that children do it.

Someone puts up a red mark at your name. They explain what they are resentful/angry about. You explain your view but it doesn't change their feelings. So they leave it up.

Now what? Do you apologize and promise never to do it again? Do you rework all the rules of the relationship giving them control so it never happens again? But this removes the power play from the relationship so now you're unhappy and you put up a red mark at their name. Or you don't change anything and their feelings don't change so they leave the red mark up. Now you get angry and then what? You tell them your way or the highway? You cannot change someone's feelings.

Or they take down the red mark because they didn't feel safe at your response and they don't dare put it up again for fear of your response. Instead of this convoluted way of treating one another, reread julietsierra's response. If this is happening to you frequently, then the only constant here is you. Either you keep picking people with major insecurity issues or you are setting up a situation where your partners don't feel they can talk to you. If you're on talking terms with any of your exes, ask them what you did wrong to make them afraid of bringing things up. Of course, if your response is usually angry and defensive, they won't tell you the truth.

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 4:40:40 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		 julietsierra you said it so well i doubt i could add much but....
 
i can only speak from my own experience.  The last Dom i served considered any discussions of emotions or any expression of emotion other than adoration for Him as "drama".  When i called Him because i'd botched an important (to me) job interview i began to cry and made the mistake of saying "i wish i could do something right"  He began to yell at me and told me i needed professional help and refused to speak to me for a month.  i vowed at that point to never ever ever display any "negative" feelings again and if i were feeling sad, lonely, or unhappy with myself for whatever reason i would either try to work it out on my own or walk away.  to be rejected at the moment of vulnerability was stored in my "catalog" and not long ago i walked away.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 4:45:59 AM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		I coppied the system from one DESIGNED FOR CHILDREN to give feedback to parents and eachother, done right and explained right it does and will work.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 4:54:20 AM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Reading the reply more she really does't understsnd the system. I expect a possible time delay posting red at times untill all are calm, then I expect the one getting the red mark to ask what they got it for and how to fix it, allowing the family to function together without needing my micromanagement. If a red mark is there awhile I will bring both parties together and do my best to work it out, if I can't I will bring the family in to help, we will work things out as a team. My family is and will be a team.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 7:34:36 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I have got to say the whole red and green thing especially done daily would have me running. I really do not think that basically grading the other people around you on a daily basis is productive. Especially dealing with loved ones who spend so much time together. Kids develop social skills and working with others. Adults have them and loving and being with someone is far different then friends and being with someone for a few hours.

I really do not think the human heart and brain work on important issues that are always the cause for major problems by judging the person around you daily. I am a human being, it is natural for me to get upset for a few minutes if a member of my family dirtied up something I just cleaned, forgot to call when going to be a little late or petty things that just blow over because it is called life. Talk about the potential for walking on egg shells with that system.

As far as the life goes if my attitude is an issue and all other things in my life are fine it would be much better for both of us for me to have a red ass then a red mark. I do not think that system helps in anyway with a person feeling free to discuss significant issues and the system looks to me a bad way to artificially and a shallow way to deal with major issues by treating them like they are mundane daily things.


< Message edited by toservez -- 12/2/2006 7:36:15 AM >

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 9:19:22 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous

I try not to have knee jerk reactions, I do walk away sometimes just to think how I went wrong. I am the Trainer and Master, it is always partly my fault if not completly my fault. I am 100% sure I am at fault many times and that to do right I need to change me not them. I want my families input to make me a better person and a better Master. I always ask for it, I just do not always get it. I do not punish whem angry, I discipline first, then talk it over and see if a punishment is needed, and if I do something wrong I accept a form of punishment too, it is only fair.


poly,
 
You say you are a Trainer and Master but it also sounds like you are also a Daddy (of sorts anyway).  Having a family is a large responsibility for anyone. 
 
One thing you say above is that you know you are at fault.  That is a word i personally have never liked, regardless of what relationship.  i wonder if you try not to blame yourself (or anyone) for the particular situation and just look at it as when you have a family, stuff happens.  That's life and you do the best with it you can.  When those involved in the situation (including yourself) have things that bother them, that is really not a failure on anyone's part.  You sound like you have opened the door for communication.  Now it sounds like you just need to get them to walk through that door.  Easier than it sounds, isn't it?
 
i loved my father to pieces but when i had a problem with him, it was very hard to bring it to him because he would often think he was at fault  (the 'where did i go wrong' thing).  i was not bringing things to him to blame him, and i hated when he felt he was 'wrong' when all i wanted to do was be able to talk to him about something that was bothering me and clear the air.  In other words, i did not want him to feel like he was a failure each and every time i had to bring something to him.  That really only made me feel worse and in most cases, made me not want to 'share'. 
 
It's funny that as i got into adult relationships, i realized just the opposite.  Most of the guys i was with blamed me when i had a issue about the relationship (kind of ironic actually).  But see, it's that 'blame thing' again.....all about who is right and who is wrong instead of what we can do to rectify the situation.  In those relationships, what i came to do was when asked if something was wrong, i'd say 'nothing'.  And then it wasn't discussed, i was left to stew, and in short, nothing positive ever ensued.
 
When i was with my first Daddy Dom, he came to be able to tell when something was wrong.  When asked, i reverted to the old 'nothing' reply (even though that wasn't true).  Well he got sick of that and what it eventually led to so basically, he made it a rule that i was not allowed to say that.  If he knew there was something bothering me and he asked me, i better say anything but 'nothing' (lol)....or i was being spanked and then would have to tell him anyway....period.  So let's see...which would i choose?  Hmmm...
 
i could not tell you how such a little thing worked so well for me.  He did not blame himself....nor did he blame me.  We talked.  We reached conclusions, whatever they were.  Another lil girl i knew said her Daddy would send her to her room until she could tell him what was wrong (that didn't work for me but it did for her).  When she realized she wasn't getting to spend time with her Daddy because she was not able to share her problem, she quickly 'forced herself' to open up.  And she said he could always tell when she wasn't addressing the real issue because of how she acted afterward.  She said he knew when she really felt relieved or when something else was still going on.
 
The funny thing with me is....it was never the issue i had to bring up that was the problem....it was the feared reaction.  If he blamed himself, i felt bad....and often guilty.  If he blamed me, i felt angry and confused.  The one with the issue should not made to feel that they are wrong for feeling what they do....and the one it is being brought to should not be made to feel they are wrong either.  There are just misunderstandings that need to be resolved.....they happen in every family.  As a parent myself, i often had to tell myself 'think resolutions, not blame' and that helped me a lot as both a parent and a partner.
 
Well, i don't know if this helped you any but i sure feel a lot better...lol. 
 
i wish you the best of luck
 
DG

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 9:53:38 AM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, yes true, again I stand corrected. I do concider myself and am a Daddy Dom as well, I was tired and forgot all I meant to write on the list of things I am. I try to be everything needed to my family and I am good at it I am told. I might as well add I am a spiritual guide to the list and healer in training as well. I guess 6 hours sleep in 3 days is not enough, this is a bad time of year for me. I suffered a trama at this time of year, years ago, a bad one..... I still have not found in these replies a true good solution to finding out hidden feelings, the board is a start, it does allow time shifting untill everyone involved in any issue to calm down before putting a red mark up to fix the issue, but if one is afraid to tell the truth, then what?

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 11:34:56 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous

Ok, yes true, again I stand corrected. I do concider myself and am a Daddy Dom as well, I was tired and forgot all I meant to write on the list of things I am. I try to be everything needed to my family and I am good at it I am told. I might as well add I am a spiritual guide to the list and healer in training as well. I guess 6 hours sleep in 3 days is not enough, this is a bad time of year for me. I suffered a trama at this time of year, years ago, a bad one..... I still have not found in these replies a true good solution to finding out hidden feelings, the board is a start, it does allow time shifting untill everyone involved in any issue to calm down before putting a red mark up to fix the issue, but if one is afraid to tell the truth, then what?


i'm kind of stumped on this one poly only because it has been my experience on both sides of this coin that most do want to tell the truth if for nothing else than to resolve the angst they are holding in.  Now i could see finding the occasional partner who for some reason, just cannot do this, but you say you have faced this too many times.  Hmmm.....i sure don't have the answer to that one 
 
DG 

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 12:17:08 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous

Ok, yes true, again I stand corrected. I do concider myself and am a Daddy Dom as well, I was tired and forgot all I meant to write on the list of things I am. I try to be everything needed to my family and I am good at it I am told. I might as well add I am a spiritual guide to the list and healer in training as well. I guess 6 hours sleep in 3 days is not enough, this is a bad time of year for me. I suffered a trama at this time of year, years ago, a bad one..... I still have not found in these replies a true good solution to finding out hidden feelings, the board is a start, it does allow time shifting untill everyone involved in any issue to calm down before putting a red mark up to fix the issue, but if one is afraid to tell the truth, then what?


Hello poly,

You appear to care very much and have thought an awful lot about how to find a successful workable system for your family.

I think that there simply are cases where even the best of circumstances will not result in people opening up. The reasons why people can't/won't are as numerous as there are people.

The answer lies with the subs themselves and if they can't/won't articulate it, you won't know. People here can only give their thoughts about why THEY possibly might not *open up* etc.

How many successful relationships have you, in your family?
How long had the subs in question been with you?
How old were they?
How experienced were they in the type of home you have?

agirl

(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 12:29:07 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polyamorous

Can anyone explain why a sub will hide their true feelings even to the cost of the relationship the sub was trying to save? This has happened to me too many times. I ask the right questions. I am told this has happened to many other Master/Misstresses.



In my experience often (not always) when i finally have worked up the courage to "reveal my true feelings" to a Dom all i've gotten from it is the dust from his heels as he disappears into the sunset, unless they're the uber positive, loving, damn he's good kind of feelings.  i've learned (but don't always remember) that especially if my some of my feelings aren't the glowing, glittering shooting stars of our relationship that out shines all others, the top not only doesn't want to hear it..he doesn't.  No matter how our delicately or gently i've tried to explain (when asked) how i feel about something, i know now they had better be wonderful feelings because so many times the dom doesn't want to deal with or acknowledge feelings that might be difficult to share anyway. 

Asking the right questions is great, as long as You're willing to really listen to her answers, the good and the bad, which means that she has to trust that you will be able to deal with all of her feelings without running off to hide.  In my own case, it's incredibly difficult for me to trust someone that much anymore -- the once burned, twice shy kinda thing, i guess.  my only suggestion is to possibly give her time, be patient, share your own feelings about her, your relationship, your job, your day at the beach..whatever.  It's somewhat easier for me to open up and to share if the Dom also "reveals His true feelings".

Hope that makes sense...

cheers
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to polyamorous)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 1:25:38 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I think a You are pushing yourself too hard.
          b the relationship between you and a sub must be good before you introduce them into a family at all
             so the problems of communication ought to have been sorted.
          c Trying to solve every problem by thinking that you know what it is through empathy does not work.
              Been there done that got the T shirt. Your empathy can tell you that something is wrong but it will not
              tell you what it is. Being empathic does not mean that you are a mind reader.
I know I'm an empath lol

(in reply to krikket)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Truth - 12/2/2006 5:48:28 PM   
polyamorous


Posts: 138
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		So far most these problems were in one on one relationships. I suffer from SEPERATION AND ABANDONMENT ANXIETY DISORDER and do my best never to be seperated and alone, the anxiety is very bad, to a point I think of dieing.
I try to do my best to be the best.
I have walked away, but only long enough to think, and I said I love you and I'll be back so they knew where they stood and that I loved them. I just needed the time to think of what to say and what to do so I could do my best to make things better. I didn't want to say or do the wrong thing quickly without thinking and make things worse. I wanted to seperate myself from the person just long enough to think and come back with what I thought was a workable solution instead of making a mistake. I am human and I admit I make many mistakes, most if I react without thinking instead of thinking then reacting. I tell all up front that is my style so they understand me.
I listen and try my best to react well to any negative input about me by changing what I am doing wrong.
But, as an empath,  you can not hide from me something is wrong but you may hide what it is. I can not fix what I do not know, I then in reaction try to change everything I can think of, sometimes making things worse.
That is one reason why I am now going to be poly so if one actually does leave, which I hope never happens, I wlll not be alone to cope with it. Other reasons include but are not limited to the fact a team of more than two can do what a single person or two alone could never do.
I had been in each relationship a year or more.
I do seek lifetime partners, so anyone reading this that likes my style please email me. A playmate is fine too but not deep enough to sustain life, so to speak. Peace..........

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 60
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