RE: Master's Temper (Full Version)

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LordVelvet -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 10:15:35 AM)

I will share this. I have struggled with MY temper over the years. It has gotten better but I talk to a shrink and take meds for it. While I know this is not the anser for everyone it is working for ME. It was to the point that I was scared I was going to really hurt someone. That was the straw that made ME seek help. I wish you and Him the best.
-LV



Mercnbeth -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 10:18:33 AM)

Men marry women hoping they won't change. Woman marry men assuming they can change them.

"Anger Management", meditation, bio-feedback; all assume you can change a person's nature. A person can "act" for a time but ultimately returns to what is natural for them. Usually it becomes more intense over time as the will/energy to "act" differently wanes. The pseudo-sciences provide rationalization for actions; justifying current lack of self control to some real or contrived issues of youth. Abdication of personal responsibility seems pervasive for the times. However you have a personal responsibility for yourself.

Your decisions should be based upon observable behavior. They are your "facts" on which you must base your future decisions. On this site we often advise people to "be yourself"; that being "natural" is more important than acting to facilitate a result. Now that you are seeing 'natural' what do you want to do with the information?

Consider the old parable:
quote:

A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you  mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown." "My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you. Now where is the logic in that?" "You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said: "Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there'd be no logic in your stinging me. Why did you do it?" "It has nothing to do with logic," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's just my character."


Or, if you don't like scorpions:
quote:

This girl finds a snake that pleads with her to place it in her winter coat because otherwise the snake will freeze. The girl goes "No your bite me blah blah blah". Anyway the girl eventually puts the snake in her jacket to keep it warm and she continues on her walk. Then she feels a sharp pain in her side, the snake drops out and begins to slither away. The girl say something like "Why? I took care of you, blah blah blah". The snake simply replies "You knew what I was when you found me".



theRose4U -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 12:13:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane
My ex started out on objects and over time moved to me.


I'm trying hard not to pull the alarm bells here but, if you ask women who have been in physically violent relationships...objects are a pretty typical way to start. This relationship is very new....not many men come right out of the gate beating on you...they work up to it. If he has such a difficult time with a DVD player that won't work, you have to wonder what his reaction will be and where will he take out his aggressions if he can't get the dog to stop barking...or the baby to stop crying....or the woman in his life to do what he wants.....

I am not going to go so far as to say that it IS going to happen...but I am saying that the behavior displayed so far is reason for a great deal of concern and the possibility of it escalating to that point is fairly high. Keep your eyes open and all of your common sense about you. Have a plan B. Don't allow yourself to get trapped in a situation you can't get out of.

Exactly. Asking you to be responsible for his behavior makes you a target. Interceding when he's out of control paints a big target on your forehead, this is not a good situation.



theRose4U -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 12:26:00 PM)

quote:

when his temper flares he will yell and curse for a bit and then he needs some sort of physical release...sometimes that means lifting weights at the gym and sometimes that means coming home and beating his slave. personally i much prefer he vent his anger and frustrations on me than on someone else who may have some weapon and injure him or who may report him to the police


Sorry to say that's abuse. Striking ANYONE in anger is not appropriate...EVER. What most of us do is for pleasure (even if it comes from the pain). "Taking it out on you" is just that, his lack of control, lack of dominance over his emotions being inflicted in an innapropriate manner. Sorry but abuse isn't something that you can consent to and it breaks most D/s arrangements.



MisPandora -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 1:30:05 PM)

That's beyond anger, damia -- that's rage.  It's a dangerous thing to mess with.  Really, he needs to seek some professional help for that.  He's going to run the risk of losing the things that he loves in life if he doesn't.



SusanofO -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 1:45:02 PM)

Having just left someone who pushed me down a full flight of uncarpeted stairs (and also gave me a black eye) because he apparently didn't understand what was meant when he'd asked me and we agreed we'd both "Be Poly"(and we did), my personal advice is to leave unless he is willing to get help. But that's just me.

I wans't raised to think this kind of thing is "normal" or "acceptable".  And even if I had been, there comes a time you  need to look out for yourself if it's obvious the other person cannot. Losing one's temper (I believe) in a way that results in physical violence is different than just being "Dominant", or even a Dominant Sadist. For one thing, the people upon whom this violence is inflicted have agreed to it, in that case. I agree I think it's just a matter of time before he graduates from hitting walls and othert inanimate objects, to hitting you as well.

You don't need to explain yourself, (I don't think) beyond stating his temper scares the hell out of you (if it does) and that you think that it has ominous overtones for your future relationship - because this behavior is basically non-consensually putting you into the vicinity of this person flinging  his bad temper at all who are in his vicinity when his temper takes over. Frankly, I'd make it an ultimatum if "discussion" won't work.

Plenty of Doms out there won't act this way. Some will, but there are many, I am betting, who do not - and wouldn't even consider it. Gentlemen do exist. 

- Susan



daddysprop247 -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 1:46:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

when his temper flares he will yell and curse for a bit and then he needs some sort of physical release...sometimes that means lifting weights at the gym and sometimes that means coming home and beating his slave. personally i much prefer he vent his anger and frustrations on me than on someone else who may have some weapon and injure him or who may report him to the police


Sorry to say that's abuse. Striking ANYONE in anger is not appropriate...EVER. What most of us do is for pleasure (even if it comes from the pain). "Taking it out on you" is just that, his lack of control, lack of dominance over his emotions being inflicted in an innapropriate manner. Sorry but abuse isn't something that you can consent to and it breaks most D/s arrangements.




it may very well be abuse...doesn't much matter as i'm his property, and to us that means he has the right to do what he wills with me. but you are wrong about the lack of control. if he lacked control, he would simply take out his anger and aggressions directly on the source, choking the cashier at wendy's or whipping the guy who cut him off on the highway. instead he makes a very conscious and controlled effort to physically vent on me, which makes him feel better and in turn makes me feel better since he is restored to calm and tranquility and i know i have done my part to help.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 2:08:47 PM)

I'm one of the ones who think it's ok to take someone's anger out on someone else- if it's done in a healthy, fulfilling, consensual way. 

It's a great gift to be able to take away pain from someone- whether it's pain of sickness, or pain of heart, or pain of emotion.  It's not something I do lightly or frivolously, but I do think it can be a great and wonderful thing to have.

Whether I think Prop's master is irrational or not for getting so upset at pointless little things such that he needs to take energy to beat his slave over it rather than beating his slave because he's just happy and in the mood is irrelevant (frankly I DO think it's irrational).

But the process of being available to be used in this way can be very good.



KatyLied -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 2:09:21 PM)

quote:

i'm worried He'll get hurt


I think you are pointing your worries in the wrong direction.



LadyHugs -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 2:09:42 PM)

Dear damia, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I cannot top much better what has been said on the posts.
 
There are a few observations and comments I wish to make in addition to what has been proffered thus far.
 
As I watch on in life, in my mind's eyes I see--that many of us (in a general sense) make excuses for other's bad behavior.  Sometimes, I strip away my personal feelings for someone, especially when I'm fond of them, and question if I would accept the behavior and or attitude from a complete stranger.  The question which puzzles the outsider's is how love can be twisted into enabling someone to be abusive and violent.  The question would be, if the violence turns to murder--would you still tolerate all the behaviors which flagged the danger signs of becoming a murderer.
 
Another observation I have made in my mind's eyes I see; when people have to change themselves, as to walk on egg shells and or become a mommie/adult role to calm things down.  Unfortunately, any individual who has to change drasticly their own world to keep the peace--isn't keeping peace, it is just delaying the erruption of violence and or abuse.  Again, you (in general terms) can excuse the behavior away--every abuse medical professional will rattle off all the excuses other men and women who have tolerated another person's foul behavior and or attitude.
 
I also do not consider in my mind's eyes, a man or woman as a Master, if they cannot maintain the same conduct, behavior and or example they put on their slaves and or others.  Negatives, threats, violence and or abuse is the sign of a Controller--not a Dominant.  I think the medical field would agree if asked.
 
In addition, those with anger, rage, abuse and the need to have it their way all the time; are control freaks and wants everybody to conform to their 'way/view' of how things should be.  I've seen this in spoiled brats that turned into spoiled bratty adults. 
 
The concern I have with those who are hair triggered, is that the slow person that they cannot stay waiting patiently, with a civil tongue and without behavior that increases in visible evidence of a volcanno ready to explode--is that the slow individual might be an elderly person, a disabled person doing their dead level best.  Unfortunately, the perfectionist and 'control types' have no island to control and or to conform to their view of things.  And, nobody should have to walk on egg shells in fear of what they might do or be shocked by a unforseen episode of violence--be it directed at the air, the lifeless products that can be replaced, to pets and to partners and or those that live about them, such as neighbors and or co-workers.
 
As much as anybody wants to help someone else, who is having a rough time of controling their behavior and or attitude; its not fixing the problem and--the problem must be faced by the person with the anger, rage, control issues.  They need the attitude adjustment and behavior modification.  Delaying the progressive nature of depression, anxiety, control issues and any other mental health related issues--might be the worst thing to do.
 
It has been my understanding, that at times and or some cases, a person destroys an object but project someone onto that object.  It is not just a DVD anymore--its somebody that they wouldn't mind destroying and to destroy an object out of frustration and or other menu of excuses; its just an alternative of where they really wish to do to someone/something--most times its a someone.  Boss? co-worker?, or life in general.  It might be all a chemical imbalances of the brain--but, until this Master wills himself/herself to see a professional; it is not going to 'fix' how they are or how they see things from their mind's eyes.
 
Road rage drivers aren't usually the ones killed.  It is the poor innocent driver who happens to be in the wrong place and the wrong time.  None of us are 'mind readers' so; those who's minds might be elsewhere and violent may have to talk to a trained professional.
Road rage, drunks, rapists, robbers--anybody/everybody is effected directly and or indirectly.
 
Hopefully, he'll see that he must be his own white knight, get himself straight and see the beautiful lass who is trying to do right by him, instead of being blinded by negative behavior.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



FelinePersuasion -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 2:35:58 PM)

I personaly think it's a very deep sign of imaturity if you can not control what you do when in a rage, or if you* and this is general you* fly into a rage at the slightest,and I would not submit to them period. Anger management classes are only useful if the person in need of them will learn the tools and manage their rage sucessfully, and sucessfully does not mean distroying something.



poplolly -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 2:44:00 PM)

There is nothing wrong with venting or in being frustrated.  When that frustration becomes in ANY WAY violent, red flags must go up.  As said previously, violence towards objects is often the precursor to violence towards persons.  I know as I, too, have been at the receiving end of that "frustration".  And when I tried to intervene, to calm his temper, I found myself with a broken  nose from a vicious head butt.  Please, walk away.  Teach him that it will not be tolerated and leave if he doesn't change.  The risk is far too great!!



ownedgirlie -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 3:24:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm one of the ones who think it's ok to take someone's anger out on someone else- if it's done in a healthy, fulfilling, consensual way. 

It's a great gift to be able to take away pain from someone- whether it's pain of sickness, or pain of heart, or pain of emotion.  It's not something I do lightly or frivolously, but I do think it can be a great and wonderful thing to have.

I absolutely agree with you here.  I love that my Master can ease his mood by using me to do so, whether it's done physically, mentally or emotionally.  We have an extremely stable foundation to begin with.  So I know that when he starts verbally toying with me by way of taunting, degrading, teasing, or any other way that an outsider might become shocked at such "abuse," I am absolutely thrilled, as I know he will soon feel much better. I have been in relationships where such treatment was cruel and hurtful.  My current situation is far from that, because of the foundation that has been created.



SusanofO -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 3:31:23 PM)

Well...okay, I understand what you and LA mean (really I do)  but with the talk of the "foundation" you speak of  - that would make it consensual, wouldn't it?

What the OP went through sounds non-consensual (at least to me). That's what I think is wrong with what the OP went through - not whether she knew "when" it would happen - or even what form it might take. It didn't sound like there was any upfront (or even intuitional) "understanding" here at all. Else why would she be worried?

- Susan



Celeste43 -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 3:38:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

when his temper flares he will yell and curse for a bit and then he needs some sort of physical release...sometimes that means lifting weights at the gym and sometimes that means coming home and beating his slave. personally i much prefer he vent his anger and frustrations on me than on someone else who may have some weapon and injure him or who may report him to the police


Sorry to say that's abuse. Striking ANYONE in anger is not appropriate...EVER. What most of us do is for pleasure (even if it comes from the pain). "Taking it out on you" is just that, his lack of control, lack of dominance over his emotions being inflicted in an innapropriate manner. Sorry but abuse isn't something that you can consent to and it breaks most D/s arrangements.




it may very well be abuse...doesn't much matter as i'm his property, and to us that means he has the right to do what he wills with me. but you are wrong about the lack of control. if he lacked control, he would simply take out his anger and aggressions directly on the source, choking the cashier at wendy's or whipping the guy who cut him off on the highway. instead he makes a very conscious and controlled effort to physically vent on me, which makes him feel better and in turn makes me feel better since he is restored to calm and tranquility and i know i have done my part to help.


You're wrong about this indicating loss of control. When a 180 lb man is cut off in traffic by a 300lb Hell's Angel, he doesn't confront the biker. Instead he comes home and gives his wife a black eye. Or he kicks the dog or he abuses his offspring. Abuse is abuse is abuse.



daddysprop247 -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 4:29:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43




You're wrong about this indicating loss of control. When a 180 lb man is cut off in traffic by a 300lb Hell's Angel, he doesn't confront the biker. Instead he comes home and gives his wife a black eye. Or he kicks the dog or he abuses his offspring. Abuse is abuse is abuse.



not sure who you're responding to here (i would assume Rose as she was the one who mentioned lack of control)....but above you seem to imply that because a person chooses to physically "vent" on a loved one rather than on the potentially stronger/more dangerous source of the anger, they are somehow being cowardly. this may indeed be the case for your typical vanilla drunken wifebeater, but it is not the case for all. unfortunately (in my view anyhow) my Master fears no one and would, if he allowed himself the freedom, get into a physical confrontation with just about anyone save small children and little old ladies. for much of his life he did just that...in one incident intentionally seriously injuring someone due to "road rage". what stops him now is his admireable self-control...knowing that if something happened to him, there would be a slave and an unmentionable left alone and defenseless in the world. so sometimes it isn't fear that causes someone to vent on an innocent, "safe" loved one, but rather just plain old maturity and self-control.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 4:36:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Well...okay, I understand what you and LA mean (really I do)  but with the talk of the "foundation" you speak of  - that would make it consensual, wouldn't it?

What the OP went through sounds non-consensual (at least to me). That's what I think is wrong with what the OP went through - not whether she knew "when" it would happen - or even what form it might take. It didn't sound like there was any upfront (or even intuitional) "understanding" here at all. Else why would she be worried?

- Susan

All that my Master does is consensual to me.  I was not addressing the OP in my post that you quoted, though.  I was addressing someone else who said that a Master who takes frustrations out on his slave is abusive.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.  Abuse does not exist in my relationship with my Master because he can use me any way he wishes.  So, there is no "mis use" of his slave, in that regard.

However, my initial reply to the OP was that her Master ought to be looking at what is causing his rage.  She can not take his rage away for him.  There is something inside him emotionaly that gets triggered by outside forces, which he reacts destructively to.  It is unhealthy and it is dangerous. To have her take this on as her problem to correct for him has the potential of destroying her, because she can not succeed at it.  What starts as "just helping him curb the tantrum" can turn into so much more.  If he doesn't curb it, she has failed.  Then they both blame her for something completely outside the realm of her control.  She becomes a failure in both her eyes and his, and her spirit weakens. If the pattern does not change to something healthier, she will likely be very hurt, emotionally.  I speak from experience on that one. Further, someone who bursts into rages is scary to be around, and not in control of himself.  It creates an unstable environment in which to live, and walking on eggshells is terrifying and damaging to the spirit.

In my reply to LA, I spoke of my own situation, which is entirely different.  My Master does not burst into rages, nor does he give me ownership of his problems.  He has also created an emotionally safe environment for me.  One in which I have no fears, and one in which no matter what he does or says to me, I know I will not be damaged emotionally or otherwise.  Big difference.



slavejali -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 4:40:42 PM)

Fast Reply:

Martial arts is a really good avenue to learn self-discipline, it also helps channel that excess energy he may have.



SusanofO -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 4:41:51 PM)

Yes, I do understand what you seem to have with your Master. If it's consensual, that's the difference to me (too).

on another note: Good suggestion about Him learning the martial arts, perhaps (a constructive outlet), from slavejali, I think, too.

- Susan



SamKeithsslave -> RE: Master's Temper (12/4/2006 4:43:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

[not sure who you're responding to here (i would assume Rose as she was the one who mentioned lack of control)....but above you seem to imply that because a person chooses to physically "vent" on a loved one rather than on the potentially stronger/more dangerous source of the anger, they are somehow being cowardly. this may indeed be the case for your typical vanilla drunken wifebeater, but it is not the case for all. unfortunately (in my view anyhow) my Master fears no one and would, if he allowed himself the freedom, get into a physical confrontation with just about anyone save small children and little old ladies. for much of his life he did just that...in one incident intentionally seriously injuring someone due to "road rage". what stops him now is his admireable self-control...knowing that if something happened to him, there would be a slave and an unmentionable left alone and defenseless in the world. so sometimes it isn't fear that causes someone to vent on an innocent, "safe" loved one, but rather just plain old maturity and self-control.


I need to ask when you speak of him venting his anger on a loved one etc, what exactly are we talking about here? What sort of venting? And yes, ordinarily I would say anyone who takes their anger out on a smaller, more defenseless human being, dog etc is a coward. But I'd really love to first hear what exactly he does to vent.
My ex never beat up on men equal in ability to him, he was a coward. He once attacked his mothers 60+ year old bf, whom had recently undergone shoulder surgery, he attacked a man in a wheelchair and of course took most his rage out on me.



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