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RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 2:33:34 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I don't want to have to think about the 'what could happen if's..." with regard to mood alterers. I want to be able to deal with what actually happens in a manner that I know I'm 100% on my game.


I couldn't agree more - and I do like the occasional glass of wine or pint of beer - but when push comes to shove, I don't want anything messing up my ability to handle a problem.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 2:35:36 PM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		A DM's responsibility is to do such things YES.

Playing with 80 drunken foolish monkeys with no "level heads" amongst them is asking for retardation and trouble.


this is why there is Monitors at big play parties..... and EXPERIENCED ONES.... I have seen a DM totlay let a scene go on and allow some vert very dangerous play get out of controll because they thought it was "fine".... yet I could tell differently and I was the one who was not the "DM" and not "sober" at a party in which I was not actualy a partaking member in any scenes ( just there for the boozin' and comrodery)..... and I was the one who called the scene over.

Sober, or having a few cocktails, it is all a judgement call, and even "sober" people can make bad ones and can be caught "not paying attention".
Just food for thought
I have seen a trend in the UK and overseas that tends to be more relaxed with the "social" aptmosplehere.
I firmly believe it comes down to "TRUST, and relationship distance" of the partners and peple involved to know the tolerances and such of others.

If there is a party and the rules are posted as NO alkie or other things posted, I would respect that in said venue's policy even though I know that I personaly could handle things differently.

Cheers,

M Darth !


(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 3:39:20 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know my own strength when I'm drunk. I also miscalculate where I want my switch to hit and the amount of wax to pour at one time.
If and when I'm drinking, I'll just socialize and discuss stuff. As for what to do with my sub, we'll still have sex but save the scene for a sober day.

Other than that, let's remember that Alchol thins the blood making one more prove for bleeding and bruising.








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(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 5:50:28 PM   
MasterGrim


Posts: 45
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline 		Not into the scene or parties so in that instance it's not an issue, if we were theres no way we'd mix alcohol with bdsm and strangers let alone kinky friends.

Although when my sub gets drunk she turns into the kinkiest little tart she'll literally demand to be beaten when we come home from a nite on the brew, i feel uncomfortable "playing" if i've had even a little too much to drink as your dexterity is non existent and your perception is shot, it's just asking for trouble so if i've had more than a few drinks i'll leave the toys away, aside from maybe a small belt and opt for just a light spanking, then roughly ogle, twist pink bits, bite and play rape her.

She says im colder/much rougher and it has more of an edge when we're drunk and she really gets off on it but i prefer to be straight.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 6:25:10 PM   
velvetvixen


Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline 		I will not scene with anyone for any reason if all involved are not 100% sober. No exceptions.

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 6:27:46 PM   
GrandpaLash


Posts: 133
Joined: 1/8/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, Australians, like Brits, seem to have a far more relaxed view of this. And keeping in mind that Darth did make a definite distinction between 'drunk' and 'drinking', and no sensible person is going to recommend playing while drunk or wasted, I have no problem with it. I have yet to see a public or semi-public BDSM event in Australia that doesn't have alcohol, but all of them have experienced dungeon masters whose responsibility is to watch for stupidity and loss of control.

Personally, I enjoy a few glasses of wine or a small doobie before play with my slave, and she does too. It relaxes her, which is very helpful because she's a very cerebral type and needs something to turn her mind off so that the play can turn it off further - if you see what I mean. And since I am blessed with a high tolerance for alcohol and a fair tolerance for dope, it seems not to effect me negatively at all. Turns my cerebration off too, to a large extent, and allows me to concentrate purely on my sub and the play.

That said, I would not do needle, knife, or breath play unless totally straight.

Grandpa Lash

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(in reply to MasterGrim)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 7:32:48 PM   
NoPinkBalloons


Posts: 125
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		I'm the quintessential bad example, yet again. I have no issues at all with someone having a drink or whatever and then playing so long as everyone is informed. I know myself and my partners well enough to decide if I should or shouldn't play, whether top or bottom.

Personally, I think it comes down to common sense. I see no harm in a simple spanking or flogging scene, or something sensual/sexual if I've had a drink (or if my partner has). I'm not likely to say yes to an intricate cutting if someone is all coked up and bouncing off the walls.

Our parties are generally BYOB, and ALWAYS BYOPR (bring your own personal responsibility). Drinking is optional; being a responsible adult is mandatory. I invite adults into my home and expect them to act like adults. I treat them like adults, not children, and if they show that they're not going to act responsibly then they don't get invited back.

It really doesn't seem that complicated to me. *shrug*



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A hard-on does NOT count as personal growth

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 7:54:36 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
I will not play with someone who has had anything to drink within six hours. I have twice had a problem with sessions gone wrong. The first time, I'd not thought it a problem for the sub to drink, only the Dominant. I let the sub have a pair of mixed drinks while we were out before playing. He tried to force me to switch. Total relationship halter!

The second time was when my sub at the time and I were out all day, had dinner out, including wine. I didn't think a thing of it.. it was one glass of wine with dinner. That just wasn't alcohol to me. (silly me) An hour and a half later, scening at home, the sub had an emotional blow up that caught me unaware. He is a very controlled type person and it took both of us by surprise. I'm now one of those "no alcohol under any circumstances by either party" people.

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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 9:26:12 PM   
MidnightWriter


Posts: 131
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityFix

Out of control is out of control.

Anyone rationalizing playing while impaired is pretty much the same as those trying to do the same with driving in the same condition-it's a wreck,waiting to happen.


Oddly enough, some of us see a difference between "had a glass of wine with dinner", "impaired", and "out of control".

Mostly, I deal with S/M while drinking as if I were driving a car - if my motor reactions are impaired, I put the damn singletail (or car keys) away.

If I'm hosting a dungeon party, the same rules apply - when a guest would make me nervous driving, their toybag is put away for the night. If they make me nervous walking, they quit drinking. If their behavior is unacceptable, they don't get to blame it on the alcohol - they get their butts booted out, into a cab or a sober designated driver's car.

There are a zillion shades of grey - it's just not a black and white world that we live in, no matter how much that would make decision-making easier.

My judgement may someday be wrong - but it won't be for lack of exercise.

(in reply to RealityFix)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/17/2005 9:32:07 PM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		perhaps to clarify, as im looking a little like one of the ozbornes at the moment. I only live my alternative lifestyle privately with my partner, so parties etc. do not apply to me.
Risk assessment is easy in a loving 1:1 D/s relationship i guess. So i can be more liberal.

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 3:28:26 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If I'm hosting a dungeon party, the same rules apply - when a guest would make me nervous driving, their toybag is put away for the night. If they make me nervous walking, they quit drinking. If their behavior is unacceptable, they don't get to blame it on the alcohol - they get their butts booted out, into a cab or a sober designated driver's car.

There are a zillion shades of grey - it's just not a black and white world that we live in, no matter how much that would make decision-making easier.

My judgement may someday be wrong - but it won't be for lack of exercise.



Well said. I have not been drunk since xmas, 1969; way before most of you were born. I DO drink; just never to excess. I DO scene while drinking. I play with others while they are drinking, stoned, under-the-influence, or whatever you want to call it. I use something called judgement. Mine is damn good.

I have been a DM at large national events where the "no-drinking" rule was in effect. Such total BS. Allow me to enlighten you; people who want to drink, WILL drink. If you "ban" it they just sneak it. People who smoke pot, will; just not while the "authorities" are looking. People who pop pills, shoot up, or do any of myriad things they enjoy will do them. You cannot change human behavior; just check out the government's "war on drugs"...lmao.

I was once at a large play party where a small group was kicked out because someone saw a cooler in the back of their truck with beer in it. One of the "people-in-charge" of kicking them out was a fat little mean-ass passive-agressive subbie who had a flask in her purse and had been hitting the vodka all night. And had been doing plenty of playing.

I left that group and started my own group; which is what people like me do. You can find the link on my yahoo profile. You will see it is a blend of bdsm and hedonism; which I am sure is way too much for some of you purist types to handle.

That is the way I approach life. Find people who like to have fun without judging others fun and enjoy their company and friendship. It works for me. Find what works for you and then you can preach to your own choir. Wondering at the sight of my naked choir...lol.

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(in reply to pandoravampire)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 4:35:45 AM   
SoRelentless


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'm in the squarely, comfortably in the middle. I'm not comfortable, however, with the fact that my disparaging tone (the part I wasn't able to edit out) will no doubt offend the "no wayers!" here, so I apologize in advance. Further, I'd ask you to understand that such puritanicalism is what we are entering Year FIVE of with George B*sh, and seeing it in this forum is more than a little disappointing.

I particularly liked the comments "outing" how unnecessarily puritanical Americans are about this issue (and I'm American). In fact, it would be comical were it not so hypocritical. And we're not just overly puritanical about alcohol, which kills 1,800 college students per year here (admittedly, many are vehicular-related). But there are no medically-documented cases of someone dying from an overdose of pot. Yet one can buy alcohol in grocery and convenience stores, but go away for life (in some U.S. states) for personal use amounts of weed.... (Don't get me started....)

I think puritanism is bad in most (all?) it's forms. I mean, from what I read, "George B*sh" is the punchline to more jokes in Europe and elsewhere than any other two words. Yes, we're puritanical, and our unelected "president" is an untreated alcoholic and former coke addict. And he started a "vanity war" (to guarantee another term--notice I didn't say "reelection"?) while he was allegedly STONE SOBER, based on misinformation and lies, and thousands died. My point is, beware of thinking and speaking in absolutes--look where it got B*sh....

Remind me, again, of the value of absolute sobriety, please? B*sh has one DUI, Ch*ney has two. The DUI's in the B*sh cabinet are exceeded only by their Vietnam deferrments (Ch*ney has FIVE, W*lfowitz SIX, and others have similarly shameful numbers).

I don't drink a lot while playing, for a number of reasons, one being safety (hand/eye coordination, etc...) But I can handle a beer or two--sheesh! And that's only until my portion of the show's over--then, like Petey Pablo says, "I like to lay back...enjoy my time." I also agree with lovingmaster45: "I use something called judgement. Mine is damn good." That's great!

Mine's good too--so good I know NOT to drink hard liquor, or I will be unsafe at any speed, to coin a phrase. A few beers, on the other hand, and everything's both more relaxed and more tangible.

I think it comes down to knowing yourself and your partner. I believe those absolutists who say "no way!" are either terrified of repeating some traumatic experience (and that's their right, of course--to be terrified) or they're seeking comfort in false gods. In other words, if you can't trust your Dom to control him/herself and manage a couple of drinks, why trust them with your health in the first place?

Humans are funny--especially American humans. Remember the hue and cry about the (true) fact that airbags do kill a small percentage of accident victims? Like, I'd guess the total (not sure if this is US or worldwide) is still under 200 souls, as a few years ago it was like approx. 100. But the airbags save MANY times more lives than they take. Yet people were screaming to have them disconnected.

Cigarettes kill how many each year? 40,000? (not sure). Alcohol-related deaths number how many thousand? Hospital mistakes kill what, 130,000 per year in the US? And yet so many "absolutists" were afraid of their own, gas-guzzling SUV's airbags.

What's my point? Just this: I happen to believe that every Dom should have a heavy duty pair of sharp scissors within reach, in any bondage scene. Shoulders go out of joint, legs cramp, etc.... While you're frantically trying to free your screaming sub, who's watching the candle light the drapes on fire? It's faster and safer to cut 'em loose!

So, how many of the "no wayers!" insist on there being a good pair of scissors on hand? I'm simply suggesting that it's false comfort to insist on barring one enemy at the gate (alcohol) while ignoring other risks. I think it'd be better to consider all of the foreesable risks, and weigh them on their merits, in the context of the individuals involved. This (excercising good judgment) would provide me a greater comfort than rigidly insisting on a rule that might have little to do with the risks you're actually facing, if you were to stop and (re?) think about it.

No offense, but given some recent experiences with some misguided, moral absolutists, I can honestly say that people with "rules for rules' sake" make me tired.


< Message edited by SoRelentless -- 2/18/2005 4:39:35 PM >

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 7:48:44 AM   
Goodmix


Posts: 86
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

i read this post a few days ago and have been thinking how to respond.

my hesitation in responding was because i am an alcoholic, and i hate others who have my problem that say no one should ever drink. That is not the case. i should not drink, if you can control the alcohol, instead of the alcohol controlling you, by all means enjoy...i wish i could.
that being said, what bothers me about the question is that alcohol is being used to relax.

A drug is something that alters your personality & perception. i do not think that is a safe practice in BDSM.

Alcohol is a drug. it changes our personalities and perceptions. even if it is used "to relax"

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 8:26:14 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

A DM's responsibility is to do such things YES.

Playing with 80 drunken foolish monkeys with no "level heads" amongst them is asking for retardation and trouble.


Ok, fair enough the DM's got responsibilities. However, my ego is not going to let some 3rd party walk in and stop my scene because I don't have my shit together enough to protect the bottom. I'm not into self humiliation and that would just flatten me on any number of levels.

DM's are there for a number of reasons; however, I don't feel that I should default to the DM because I'm unable to take care of a problem on my own.

Lily

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(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 8:37:33 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		Lilly, I'm not saying that the DM is a "keg mother, or Pitcher Police", but the DM's role is to keep things safe no matter what the occourance is at all times regardless if there is booze.


I have seen my share of subs get out of control too, so it is not just watching the tops in the scene for bad reactions, or anything else.


as tothe "RGO" situation, if the "third party" is the DM and it is their place, then perhaps they are the "police" and if they say "OVER", it would be dissrespectfull of you to not end play... even if you know you and our partners are no where near in danger.

Some people's views of what is tangable and "safe" varies greatly from others.


< Message edited by Darthbetta -- 2/18/2005 8:39:36 AM >

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 8:46:07 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

as tothe "RGO" situation, if the "third party" is the DM and it is their place, then perhaps they are the "police" and if they say "OVER", it would be dissrespectfull of you to not end play... even if you know you and our partners are no where near in danger


God, buckethead, you are such a freaking nit picker...~grin~

Ok, now I don't think I said that the DM doesn't have the full right to stop a scene at their discression. And if I implied that, forgive me.

What I was saying is, I want to have full control of my faculties so that I can handle a managable situation that might otherwise become unmanageable in the presence of mind/mood alterers. I want to need a DM to step in because I'm fully in command of my person and need the help; not because I'm shitty and default to the DM.

So, to clerify, I respect the DM's and will always defer to them. I just don't want to need intervention because I'm not in control...I want there to be a legitimate problem, if that makes sense.

Lily

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"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 8:49:39 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		kitty in the rack.....

SSC ?

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/puddy/images6/drunkCat.jpg

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 12:25:12 PM   
CupofIronsXana


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		It's one thing to feel intoxicated during the height of a scene or in the aftermath, but it's not cool to be intoxicated before starting....imo.

If One is to be in control both of the scene itself and of Himself and of me, I'd want Him to be completely there and focused.

Same would apply for myself as I've been in a situation where I was the one intoxicated and it hampered me along with my reactions.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 1:13:20 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodmix
i hate others who have my problem that say no one should ever drink. That is not the case. i should not drink, if you can control the alcohol, instead of the alcohol controlling you, by all means enjoy...

what bothers me about the question is that alcohol is being used to relax.

A drug is something that alters your personality & perception. i do not think that is a safe practice in BDSM.

I laughed when I saw Pandoravampire's post, saying she's starting to feel like the Osbournes, so am I, since so many people seem to feel Real Strongly about this...

your post is touching, because alcoholism is a huge problem when not handled responsibly and in moderation; and there are folks whose systems react so violently to alcohol that it can be fatal...

On the other hand, I think it's a fairly safe drug when used in MODERation.
Of course people use it to relax, I mean no one really drinks because they Loooove the taste, do they? A lot of people suffer from mild forms of anxiety, and a lot of people simply don't want to feel the heart palpitating intensity of a new situation that is ultra intense... I'm certainly NOT advocating anyone use alcohol, but I always wonder what's gone wrong in someone's life if they don't have ANY vices (controlled bad habits).

I'm not into mind numbing anything, but I see absolutely no problem with expecting responsible adult behavior from adults, and accepting them as responsible adults to handle whatever they are playing with; obviously, in a public play situation, I suppose it's safer to go with NO drinks/drugs rule, if one is playing with random strangers... M

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(in reply to Goodmix)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Drinking, Doming, and scening... OK ? or NO WAY - 2/18/2005 1:47:55 PM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		I donno... there are a few GOOD Whiskey lovers on this site.... I do like the taste actualy :)

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 40
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