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Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:28:06 PM   
LuciusAestus


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline 		Anyone tried/enjoy this?

Allow me to explain. I don't really like the obedience part of a BDSM situation. I find it stupid with submissives saying "Yes Master/Mistress" all the time. I don't see the thrill in something being done by the command of another if the one commanding has no direct influence over the one being commanded. I find pure obedience only practiced because of the desire for it to be silly (but that is just my opinion, so please don't take offence from it).

Would it not be fun if the submissive, when tied up, instead of screaming "Fuck me hard, Master!", would struggle against the ropes and grit teeth in anger? This is at least what I find myself enjoying the thought of most. There may still be something I like about obedience, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.

I'm sure there's more I should write, but my head is empty for now.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:30:27 PM   
xonemasterx


Posts: 59
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline 		The fight is an appetizer and a good sauce.  Sometimes it can be spicier than others.  The thrill of conquest.

Now I am hungry.

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:31:20 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Force/Resistant/Primal/whatever you want play is awesome- I just make sure to talk to the other person/ask permission before I start.  After that, it's gold.

Also, scenes themselves generally aren't about obedience.  And of course many subs are NOT oriented towards obedience at all- they could be triggered by service, control, pleasure, or any combination.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_584154/mpage_1/key_force/tm.htm#584247
Primal Zone

http://www.collarchat.com/m_403611/mpage_1/key_primal/tm.htm#403617
Resistance, force, primal, wrestling, play rape, etc?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_336357/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#336362
Fighting back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_257243/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#257283
Fighting back for fun!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_157286/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#157426
Fighting Back

http://www.collarchat.com/m_139472/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#139477
A challenging submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_110661/mpage_1/key_force%252Cplay/tm.htm#110673
Force

http://www.collarchat.com/m_76392/mpage_1/key_force%2Cplay/tm.htm
The premise of forced play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_214517/mpage_1/key_primal/tm.htm#214524
Releasing the beast within

http://www.collarchat.com/m_153621/mpage_1/key_primal/tm.htm#153823
Rage

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:36:43 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I really don't think that I could do it just any one way. Sometimes I've been obedient, sometimes quiet, sometimes silly, sometimes stoic, sometimes emotional....and yes sometimes, I fight like a wildcat. It really depends on the people involved, the energy of the environment, what's been discussed and the "mood" at the time.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:37:25 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		These people are called eels in the parlance.
quite common actually
Ron

(this; to raise hell with everybodies day; is a valid use of codewords or safewords, how do you know in these cases when no means no and stop means stop?)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LuciusAestus)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:46:31 PM   
LuciusAestus


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
(this; to raise hell with everybodies day; is a valid use of codewords or safewords, how do you know in these cases when no means no and stop means stop?)


Call me stupid, but I'm not really into the whole safeword thing, I feel that it would ruin the experience if it could be cancelled at any time.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:47:55 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So I am stabbing you in the heart with an icepick...........

no safeword?

K,

Let's get 'er done................. 

God dag!!!

how would I say can you believe this? in terms of can you get a grip on this?
Kann du pa griepa?


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/12/2006 1:50:04 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LuciusAestus)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:52:33 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		I love to fight him. During sex. Sometimes.

We play rape scenes. He forces me onto the bed while I'm screaming and hollaring, he types me up, I try to get out - I make him work for it. We play slave breaking scenes. We play good girl scenes, we play punishment scenes. But those are all scenes. Outside of the bedroom, I much prefer to obey. Except when I'm playfully disobeying to get a "punishment".

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:52:44 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Anyone tried/enjoy this?

Would it not be fun if the submissive, when tied up, instead of screaming "Fuck me hard, Master!", would struggle against the ropes and grit teeth in anger? This is at least what I find myself enjoying the thought of most. There may still be something I like about obedience, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.



Do you not suppose this happens quite often? ~chuckle~

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:52:51 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Call me stupid, but I'm not really into the whole safeword thing, I feel that it would ruin the experience if it could be cancelled at any time.



That is an excellent thing for all single submissives to know right up front.   Those that like permanant damage or serious injury know whom to go to. LOL

Unless ofcourse you are psychic and can tell when you are doing harmful damage to the sub.


_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
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RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:54:14 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well the idea of obedience does not have to be included in your life or scene. Although many of us find it not silly in the least., but rather nessisary for the relationship to function for us and fulfil our needs.

The idea of a safeword is not to cancel a scene when you get uncomfortable but to snap out of the scene long enough to communicate real distress. Use a safeword when it is needed and I'm fine with that, use it as a tool for manipulation, you'll find yourself searching for a new partner quickly.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:56:21 PM   
LuciusAestus


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme
Do you not suppose this happens quite often? ~chuckle~


While I do not know much, it does seem to me that most BDSM relationships are based on obedience, but perhaps I am wrong.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:58:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Call me stupid, but I'm not really into the whole safeword thing, I feel that it would ruin the experience if it could be cancelled at any time.



That is an excellent thing for all single submissives to know right up front.   Those that like permanant damage or serious injury know whom to go to. LOL

Unless ofcourse you are psychic and can tell when you are doing harmful damage to the sub.



Safewords are important. Particularly since some of the thigns we do could end up with someone needed to go to the ER. I am not going to wait till he is done when I'm bleeding internally or externally (to a dangerous extent). I'm going to be screaming "BANANA, MAYDAY, RED, GET ME THE FUCK OUT ME NOW!" Or something to that effect anyway since for me to be safewording, something major would be going on.

It is good to know upfront which dominants don't use safewords though. It's something to show beginners who to avoid.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to akisha)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:59:14 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am in agreement, I didn't want to go to war over it, but if the spanish inquisition is coming to town, and I am Bernardo Gui---

If someone is trying to hold on to the secrets--- well, just because they confess or in some other way give in is no reason to stop the torture, is it?

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 1:59:41 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme
Do you not suppose this happens quite often? ~chuckle~


While I do not know much, it does seem to me that most BDSM relationships are based on obedience, but perhaps I am wrong.



Who says master never goes "I'm going to take you. Fight me!"

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 2:00:35 PM   
LuciusAestus


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha
That is an excellent thing for all single submissives to know right up front.   Those that like permanant damage or serious injury know whom to go to. LOL

Unless ofcourse you are psychic and can tell when you are doing harmful damage to the sub.



You don't require special powers to know the difference between causing pain and causing harm, at least that is what I believe. And if the dominant intentionally is doing something to cause permament damage to the submissive, a safeword wouldn't really help.

(in reply to akisha)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 2:04:56 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

You don't require special powers to know the difference between causing pain and causing harm, at least that is what I believe. And if the dominant intentionally is doing something to cause permament damage to the submissive, a safeword wouldn't really help.



Actually yes you do sometimes. You see, if you go "no safewords" sometimes we submissives do this thing called "wanting to please you". Stupidly sometimes. Which means we will sometimes bite our tongue and take it all because we don't want to seem "unsubbly" to you. If you tell us how much you hate safewords, you are setting up an enviroment that makes it hard for us to tell you "oh my god you are ripping apart my insides and I think I'm bleeding inside my butt!"

Also - you can't tell when you are causing emotional or mental trama. Unless you plan to own a slave in a situation where you don't give a damn what trama you thurst onto her (whatever makes you happy) then you have a responsibility to create an enviroment where she can go "Holy shit you are triggering flashbacks of childhood abuse" or "Oh god something is wrong and I just need to stop now".

You also need to realize  that this doesn't happen often. We want to please you. Subs and slaves don't safeword out unless they can't avoid it.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 2:10:35 PM   
LuciusAestus


Posts: 26
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline 		Ok, I'll take my last statement back. Safewords can be good, I guess, as long as it in some way is still possible for the submissive to feel helpless. And perhaps I should say that I'm not as dominant as I may sound, since most of you seem to assume that I am.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 2:14:11 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Ok, I'll take my last statement back. Safewords can be good, I guess, as long as it in some way is still possible for the submissive to feel helpless. And perhaps I should say that I'm not as dominant as I may sound, since most of you seem to assume that I am.


No safewords means you want complete control. That's really dominant.

Some subs and slaves really like no safewords. I've never used one and I've been exploring d/s for about four years (a pitiful amount compared to some I know). It's all depending on what you want but I always reserve the right to "mayday". In public scenes I'll use the colors to let the dominant know how I'm doing as he can't read my body the way my dominant can. If I need to safeword with my dom, there is a crisis going on.

Honestly, how she feels is all up to you. Dominants have to do a lot of work in the bedroom during scenes. That could be why they like us to be so obediant outside of the bedroom. My dominant likes to blindfold me, pretending to make phone calls, open doors and talk to people who aren't there (particularly during breaking scenes) to give me the impression that I'm going to be sold off and my body is being previewed by potential buyers. How she feels is really going to be up to you.

Edited to add: By complete control I mean "If you don't think is a problem or want there to be a problem, there clearly isn't one. No matter what."

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/12/2006 2:19:05 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuciusAestus)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Non-obedient BDSM - 12/12/2006 2:17:18 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
It is good to know upfront which dominants don't use safewords though. It's something to show beginners who to avoid.


quote:

 
akisha
That is an excellent thing for all single submissives to know right up front.   Those that like permanant damage or serious injury know whom to go to. LOL


These are the kinds of statements that practically set me on fire. I know we have been through this about a thousand times on this board. I know I have posted many real life examples of how safewords complicated a scene and actually caused an unsafe situation. But heck, it's a topic I feel strong enough about to revisit.

Just because someone uses safewords does not make them safer than the next. Just because someone doesn't use safewords doesn't make them dangerous. I personally, will not play with anyone who insists upon using a safeword and can't seem to grasp the concept of open communication and it's effectiveness.

If you wish to use, believe and trust your life into the magical power of safewords....by all means, do so. But please don't tout them to newbies as the be all end all, one true way and if anyone disagrees they are a danger.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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