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"this is what I want you to say if things get out of control and you need me to stop" creates a more secure enviroment

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Well if they can't speak because of headspace how they supposed to tell people when something is wrong, safeword or not? That is a not a good arguement when it comes to safewords because if you can't talk you can't interupt the scene verbally no matter how you want to do it.

In that case you must rely on your dominant to know what he is doing and to see it. During primal play that does not always happen. That is the risk you take during primal play.

Edited for wrong word use. Sorry. 

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I tend to agree with your observations. I believe also that it is not just the quantity of experience that contributes but also the quality and variety. A person who has been in a 20 year D/s or M/s relationship in the privacy of their own home, being influenced only by the thoughts and experiences of their partner will have a significantly narrower view than someone who spent 20 years in a lifestyle community, with or without the same partner, where they have been associated with and witness to many different styles and personalities.

The other thing that I believe greatly influences many folks....and I know this will not be a popular observation....is that many people here learn much of what this lifestyle is supposed to be about by rote. Rote was a wonderful way to learn the rules of phonics as a child....but it is a deficient way to learn about a lifestyle where an understanding of the inner complexities is of greater importance. Unfortunately though, when coming into this lifestyle and asking questions, they are often answered by standard, pat answers and well rehearsed mantras. I learned the rule "i before e, except after c and when sounding like "a" as in neighbor and weigh" by rote. It would take more than a bulldozer and a pry bar to get that out of my head. I think that for many, the basic concepts here have been learned and cemented into their brains in very much the same way and it would take an act of Congress and the word of a higher power to get them to be able to let go of it.

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when a submissive is wearing a gag is not what was meant by the statement *become non- verbal*  some times during play a person can get to a head space were they may be thinking that are talking and they are not... they may loose all ablitiy to think clearly and remember.... or get into a catharitic state where they just are not able to speak.

just some examples of why safewords or signals do not always bring safety to play. the top must also take responsibility to know when to stop the play.

Knight's alandra

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Well if they can't speak because of headspace how they supposed to tell people when something is wrong, safeword or not? That is a not a good arguement when it comes to safewords because if you can't talk you can't interupt the scene verbally no matter how you want to do it.

In that case you must rely on your dominant to know what he is doing and to see it. During primal play that does not always happen. That is the risk you take during primal play.

Edited for wrong word use. Sorry. 

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

LMAO.... ok now you are just being silly.

You clearly don't understand that some individuals will go non-verbal and even unable to signal a think in their play.  This has nothing to do with intensity or hard play or some other stupid label.  It just something that happens for some people in play.  Secondly, alot of these people have found out the hard way that they can find themselves in this particular situation.  Which makes safe words nul and void.

The fact is.. that some people CAN"T tell their TOP that something is wrong etc.  Which is why depending safewords alone is reckless if not stupid in my opinion.  But, some never get to a none verbal state... and safewords are rather good for them. 

However, preaching the Mantra that "Safewords" keep you safe... well frankly ... that is reckless and very misleading to people that are trying to learn.  Understand the risks... the probability of them happening is another thing all together.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

repeat, repeat, repeat in pedantic fashion.............think learning the times tables.

LOL,
Horace Mann 

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ORIGINAL: alandraofMists


the point i am getting across is having a safe word or not does not make one safer.... there must be a combination of things to make play as safe as play can be. Wither that includes or not a safeword does not change the fact that safewords in and of themselves do not make play safe.

Knight's alandra

edited to  fix quoting

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
OK what the hell is Rote  lol

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Allow me to explain. I don't really like the obedience part of a BDSM situation. I find it stupid with submissives saying "Yes Master/Mistress" all the time. I don't see the thrill in something being done by the command of another if the one commanding has no direct influence over the one being commanded. I find pure obedience only practiced because of the desire for it to be silly (but that is just my opinion, so please don't take offence from it).

I'm sorry for the followers of D/s but I have to say it, I find it idiotic and juvenile and I really can't take it serious. My first entry into the realms of BDSM was purely intuitive with a woman I had a very passionate affair with. My next involement was with a woman who was full of intellectual theories about D/s. One of her sayings was 'consent in power exchange relationships is an amazing concept.'  Huh? was my response. I was supposed to do what I damn well liked with her and treat her like a slut but only with her consent and only to things she agrees to. So where is my authority to act on my own initiative I asked, if all I am allowed to do is what she agrees with? It just seemed plain stupid to me. If I did something that didn't arouse her or she didn't like she would tell me, which in a vanilla relationship seems fine and sensible to me but this was a D/s relationship and maybe I just didn't care if she liked it or was aroused by it. Basically I was a cock on a leash which to me is what most doms are, they seem to conform to anything to get the consent of a sub. It all comes down to the leash has two ends and the dom is very much the one being taken for a walk. It is no different than the sexual dynamics of a vanilla relationship. Now I'm just into S&M play and won't go near D/s. I'm not going to pretend I'm in charge when in reality a sub is tickling my balls.

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ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

Ha!

I expect my Dom to be maybe not in absolute control but in control - during no mattter what type of play it is. Primal or what not. If things get "primal" i expect him to be in enough control not to punch me in the face, or kick me in the spine. No matter what play we get into - if my Dom lost any of his control, he's liable to kill me. With his strength and my size - it would be a simple feat. I expect him in control.

Ha hahahahaha My Dom is surely not God. And i've been hurt - more ways then one. People screw up. This i know. He prolly tied the ropes too tight. He prolly screwed up. Be that as it may, he understands my levels of distress and knows when i am in distress past what he means. He tends to know me well enough to know my limits, know how far i can go and know when i'm just trying to "tough" it out. We dont use "verbal communication' at all when it comes to this stuff. We use body language. And yes, i have much faith that my Dom knows my body language past what i know.

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huh...

Don't know. I don't expect my partners to be in full control. Maybe it's just that I am closer in size to the Dom I've done this with most(I'm 125, he's 160), and I am used to pretty extreme physical confrontation. If he stayed in a calm and collected state, I'd kick his ass.

For me topping I usually use a certain amount of bondage, to even out(and overpower) the game. In that sort of situation, although I -could- seriously harm him/her while not being careful, the odds are slightly less. But i find that I -have- to lose some control in the circumstance that I am dealing with a much bigger person who is in bondage, or the whole primal/forced thing just feels contrived...almost clinical.

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ORIGINAL: LuciusAestus

Anyone tried/enjoy this?

Allow me to explain. I don't really like the obedience part of a BDSM situation. I find it stupid with submissives saying "Yes Master/Mistress" all the time. I don't see the thrill in something being done by the command of another if the one commanding has no direct influence over the one being commanded. I find pure obedience only practiced because of the desire for it to be silly (but that is just my opinion, so please don't take offence from it).

Would it not be fun if the submissive, when tied up, instead of screaming "Fuck me hard, Master!", would struggle against the ropes and grit teeth in anger? This is at least what I find myself enjoying the thought of most. There may still be something I like about obedience, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.

I'm sure there's more I should write, but my head is empty for now.

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ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

well that most likely explains the difference in the amount of control we expect. I "was" 107 lbs and he is 230 lbs (give or take) i'm also 5 feet and he is 6'3. (i'm now like 115) Even when i'm being amazingly hard to pin down and using my full force - he neednt. There is no way in hell i could physically restrain him (i've tried) and even getting one cuff on him its impossible to get his arms together. Though he has allowed me to try and kick his ass.... and it usually ends with him laughing his ass off and me breathing heavy in utter frustration.

but then it does seem odd to me to hear of a Dominant losing any of their self control. To each their own i suppose = )