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RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 4:39:24 PM

nikaa

Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

On my 18th birthday, my uncle gave me a car. Yet it came with conditions and responsiblities. I had to obtain and keep insurance on it and I had to maintain the car itself.

Could I have choosen not to get insurance or maintained the car. Yes, but what would that have said to my uncle? What would that have said about me as a person?

Simply because my uncle's gift came with conditions did not change the fact that he was giving me a gift.

That being said.

I see my submission as a gift. I choose to give my submission to Phoenix.

I see Phoenix's Mastery of me as a gift. One I am grateful to receive.

I also see our relationship as gift, one I hold dear and try and maintain.

Like the car my uncle gave me I beleive both gifts come with conditions and responsiblities in order to maintain a healthy M/s relationship,however; that does not change the fact that my submission and his Mastery are mutual gifts we have choosen to give each other.

< Message edited by nikaa -- 12/14/2006 4:46:07 PM >

_____________________________

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika

The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.

Wakan Tankan Nici Un

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 141

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 5:30:30 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

FUCK YOU AND YOUR GIFT

Good God I have done it again, I am imagining shackled slaves across America gripping their coffee cups s hard that they explode shattering piece and spraying coffee until all that is left is the little loop the finger goes through, their knuckles white their lips quivering other parts quivering lots of quivering well anyway they are pissed.

You give yourself too much credit.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 142

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 5:32:43 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetpetal

Damn.. i cant find His profile... Think He's left?

Probably hiding under a bridge somewhere... isn't that where all the trolls lurk?

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to velvetpetal)

Post #: 143

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 6:36:48 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

Submission might be another type of gift. How good are we at debating? Each according to our gifts. Auguste Renoir might be considered gifted, as an artist.

When someone says that submission is a gift, perhaps they mean something other than a transfer of value to a dominant.

I recall vividly, my answer to the question, "Caitlyn, how can you study, listen to music, watch television, talk on the phone, and be on the computer, all at once?"

"It's a gift."

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 144

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 8:12:11 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i actually disagree with this...that it's about "liking" to submit, or liking to dominate. i often do not "like" submitting, it doesn't get me all hot and bothered to be submissive, i just submit because that's who i am. i think that a submissive submits because it's who they are and they can do nothing else, and that a Dominant dominates for the same reason. one does not need the other in order to exist, tho perhaps we need each other if we are ever to find peace or happiness in this life.

All I meant by liking is being in that position is alot more comfortable than being in the other. As in I will feel better and happier in the role I'm predisposed to than the other. Just a general "like". I'm not inferring that a sub will love everything they do, but rather it's the most likeable postion for them to be in given thier personality. No one likes everything thing about anything they do or are.

On the second part I do think Doms need subs to define them and vice versa. If you have a room full of 10 Doms, there is no difference between the position they'd prefer to be in so they either will become equals, or someone will have to be submissive. They are relative to each other. A room full of 10 submissives will make them all equals. So, either one will become more dominant or they will remain equals. It just doesn't work without the other half.

I think we agree in concept but disagree on how to say it best.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 145

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 8:22:47 PM

SaphireLynn

Posts: 145
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetpetal

Damn.. i cant find His profile... Think He's left?

Probably hiding under a bridge somewhere... isn't that where all the trolls lurk?

very true, but he's posting again... he just is hiding his profile ....LOL
Ms. Lynn

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
~~~Anne Bronte~~~
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 146

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 8:27:26 PM

velvetpetal

Posts: 127
Joined: 2/3/2005
Status: offline

Could You please turn profile back on?.. i'd like to read it

_____________________________

When love beckons to you, follow Him,Though His ways are hard and steep.
~~ from The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 147

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 9:44:26 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

...

Fuck you and your thread.

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 148

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/14/2006 9:51:56 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Noah: You just crack me up.Good one! Hahahahhahaha!!!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 149

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 5:09:20 AM

Mstr2you

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mstr2you

...

Fuck you and your thread.

HOLY SHIT!

Now they got characters from the Grapes of Wrath telling me to fuck off.

You guys are a HOOT

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 150

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 5:21:37 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I think that is Noah's photo from his adolescence (that's what I always assumed that anyway). So what if he maybe grew up on a farm?

I am from farm country - Nebraska - it's beautiful! My grandfather's family owned a farm, and there are lots of farms where I come from, too (although I live in a medium sized city,w/ a population of about 500,000).

Anyway - I agree with you - I personally don't consider my own submission a "gift".

I will however - agree with caitlyn - I think it depends on how one defines the word "gift" - as has been evidenced by this various opinions in this thread.

If other people want to consider their submission a gift, I couldn't care less - I think it's really none of my business, actually.

This is one of those "terminology debates that has really never ends, it appears.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/15/2006 5:27:49 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 151

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 5:39:09 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

General point.

Let's get this clear once and for all. Submission is not a gift as it is conditional and depends on consent and can be taken away. If a sub gives herself to a man and there is no taking back and she is there for him to do with her anything he damn well wants, including neglecting her and starving her because he thought it was a lousy gift anyway then I will accept submission is a gift. Until then the notion of submission as a gift is an absolute nonsense.

And as Germiane Greer pointed out in the 1970 Town Hall debate, its irrelevent who is fucking who!

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 152

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 5:50:16 AM

velvetpetal

Posts: 127
Joined: 2/3/2005
Status: offline

k.. so it took me awhile to realize i wasnt.. for some reason "replying" to the right "post".....so again i will try and ask... Would You please turn back on Your profile Mstr2you?

_____________________________

When love beckons to you, follow Him,Though His ways are hard and steep.
~~ from The Prophet, by Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 153

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 8:36:32 AM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

General point.

Let's get this clear once and for all. Submission is not a gift as it is conditional and depends on consent and can be taken away. If a sub gives herself to a man and there is no taking back and she is there for him to do with her anything he damn well wants, including neglecting her and starving her because he thought it was a lousy gift anyway then I will accept submission is a gift. Until then the notion of submission as a gift is an absolute nonsense.

And as Germiane Greer pointed out in the 1970 Town Hall debate, its irrelevent who is fucking who!

What we can be clear on is that you have voiced your opinion. Please do not suggest that yours is the right one or that we all should confrom to your way of thinking. You know nothing about me, my relationship or how I live my life. I have views on many things but I certainly do not go round insisting that they are the only ones that count.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 154

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 9:04:56 AM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Greetings..~smiles~

Just in general: I do not ever feel I am giving someone a gift if I am expecting something in return. I am not a submissive nor do I have a submissive personality in order to qualify me as a submissive. So as to what it is or isn't..I could care less.

As a slave I say it all the time (because I know what I mean by it) that I serve and expect nothing in return. Some will understand this..some maybe not. I submit because I have to in order to fulfill what I am. I can not achieve that fulfillment of self unless there is always something to submit to. In my case it is a will, a dominance, a force, a presence constantly there over me that is greater than my own. It is being allowed to fulfill myself through what ever is told or expected of me that the core pleasure is found--or as often said: my pleasure is serving and pleasing the owner. The act does not fulfill the slave..the being called upon to serve does. To get that serve all the time..I am obedient, and pleasing. Thats the raw slave. The human love aspect that over time grows (and must be kept in check) will throw caution to the wind and do whatever because of love. Love does not fill nor fulfill me or allow me to be truely honest with myself.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 12/15/2006 9:08:43 AM >

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Mstr2you)

Post #: 155

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 1:58:16 PM

darksdesire

Posts: 326
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

you know, I think if we ignore him he might go away.

Personally, I love good debates. I love witnessing and engaging in intelligent and respectful discussions regarding opposing viewpoints, and I see such discussions going on all the time here. People do not always agree and that keeps things heated and interesting.

But every once in a while, someone will twist and distort the things people say in order to make it fit their world view. It seems the poster's particular world view is that he is right, and not only is he right, but everyone else is a narrow minded idiot for challenging him and his approach. He seems unable to grasp the simple fact that it is not his opinion that has offended others, but rather, it is his arrogance and narcissism that shines through the posting that has so grated on others' nerves.

< Message edited by darksdesire -- 12/15/2006 2:00:45 PM >

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 156

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 2:06:28 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

What we can be clear on is that you have voiced your opinion. Please do not suggest that yours is the right one or that we all should confrom to your way of thinking. You know nothing about me, my relationship or how I live my life. I have views on many things but I certainly do not go round insisting that they are the only ones that count.

Of course I know nothing about your life and neither do I want to. I wasn't addressing your life but pray tell me, when have you given a gift in the expectation that you will take it back if the person you are giving it too doesn't conform to your view of the world? Forgive me but I think that is what subs do or so I'm lead to believe, when their dom doesn't live up to expectations so where is the gift aspect of it? In fact many say as much on their profiles.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 157

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 2:21:05 PM

michaelOfGeorgia

Posts: 4253
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

General point.

Let's get this clear once and for all. Submission is not a gift as it is conditional and depends on consent and can be taken away. If a sub gives herself to a man and there is no taking back and she is there for him to do with her anything he damn well wants, including neglecting her and starving her because he thought it was a lousy gift anyway then I will accept submission is a gift. Until then the notion of submission as a gift is an absolute nonsense.

And as Germiane Greer pointed out in the 1970 Town Hall debate, its irrelevent who is fucking who!

this can also be said for male subs giving themselves to a Domme.

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 158

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 3:27:56 PM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Of course I know nothing about your life and neither do I want to. I wasn't addressing your life but pray tell me, when have you given a gift in the expectation that you will take it back if the person you are giving it too doesn't conform to your view of the world? Forgive me but I think that is what subs do or so I'm lead to believe, when their dom doesn't live up to expectations so where is the gift aspect of it? In fact many say as much on their profiles.

Bold added by me.

So your post was based on something that YOU think and that you have been lead to believe? Perhaps you should wait until you have facts to back up your theory before posting things as fact.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 159

RE: It Aint A Gift - 12/15/2006 3:29:42 PM

Mstr2you

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darksdesire

you know, I think if we ignore him he might go away.

So this is how you ignore me by posting to this thread? I get it, you are using some kind of reverse psychology that only you know exists or perhaps there are subliminal messages hidden in your post which will make me go away without ever knowing why or even that I was ever here. Clever very very clever.

He seems unable to grasp the simple fact that it is not his opinion that has offended others, but rather, it is his arrogance and narcissism that shines through the posting that has so grated on others' nerves.

Actually it is a perceived arrogance and narcissism that bothers you and some others here, not everyone as you imply, unless of course you represent the whole collective posting universe here in which case I stand corrected.. But to the point that you and others here have a problem with the way I present my ideas?......

Yeah I get it, and it bothers me not a whit.

(in reply to darksdesire)

Post #: 160

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