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RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 9:49:58 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

where the hell does MONEY come into BDSM ??


Redb,

The short answer - It doesn't!

But there are many facets to your question that you may not even realize. The answer is different in the context of a Master/slave relationship, scening relationships versus 24/7, and it is also could be gender biased. I'll give you the perspective of my personal experience, which is considered by some to be radical at best, and impractical at worse.

beth and I live together in a 24/7 relationship. I am her Master/owner she is my slave. she does not work. she has one job-pleasing me. I take care of ALL her needs. Anything she had prior to us getting together remains hers, savings, assets, etc. she is a beneficiary in my will, my life insurance, and most "what happens if..." scenarios are accounted. I say most, because after 9/11 I'll never consider ALL eventualities have been considered.

My goal was to have the ability to own a slave in this capacity. Before I could do that, I had financial goals to obtain. So in this context my answer to your question; "Where does money come into it?" is you can't posses anything UNTIL you can afford it.

Now, if you are looking for companionship, or distraction you won't approach this extreme. Money still comes into play. If you see the prices of 'toys' they are expensive. Trips to clubs cost money. Into costumes/leather etc - $$$

There is a VERY successful professional dungeon near us. The reason they are successful is that for a fixed price a person can go in there and satisfy their needs and leave. Their hourly rate may sound expensive, but in reality it's quite a bargain. No wine & dine, no need for clever banter, no fear that the person they met on-line is a serial stalker. Consider, a person without regards to their personal appearance or age, can set an appointment with a Dom/me or sub and act upon their desires. Many don't want the emotional commitment of a relationship. This place serves a great service and good bang for the buck.

quote:

Do people scam each other... if so how?


A MUCH easier question - YES!!! And in anyway possible!

This is no different then any other aspect of live. If someone comes to you saying they'll do ANYTHING to be with you - human nature is such that you take from him/her the 'anything' offered. It's sad, but the emotions of desperation make people do things that their brain knows are not appropriate. There are more then enough people, BDSM lifestyle or not, to take advantage of that.

Sure Dom/me's can require small tokens of sincerity, but expect from them the same tit for tat service you would get from the pro dom. Before killing me for that opinion, please note the underlined word. There's a big difference in exchanging presents or giving a new toy as a gift versus making it a requirement.

(in reply to Redb)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 9:57:12 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Sure Dom/me's can require small tokens of sincerity, but expect from them the same tit for tat service you would get from the pro dom. Before killing me for that opinion, please note the underlined word. There's a big difference in exchanging presents or giving a new toy as a gift versus making it a requirement.


I like a lot of what you've said here and it's well stated. And I think your point here- paying someone to be involved with you leading to a very "give to get" relationship is a good one.

However, I don't see an Owner requiring assets to be handled in a particular way any different than an Owner requiring their slave to dress a certain way in terms of the dynamic. You require your slave to stay home and not make any independent income. Is that different than telling her to hand over whatever huge chunk sum of money she might have had had she worked this whole time? Both ways it's simply the owner setting up a particular system to suit their desires, which the slave is required to obey.

Gifts are great, but fulfilling a requirement from one's Owner is a very different dynamic than payment for services rendered.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 10:11:35 AM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

However, I couldn't help think 'sperm bank?', which made the above so funny that I have just thoughly flushed my sinuses with coffee (which was oddly refreshing, actually).


OMG - okay so now I inhaled mine - tooooo funny!!!

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 10:46:05 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

However, I don't see an Owner requiring assets to be handled in a particular way any different than an Owner requiring their slave to dress a certain way in terms of the dynamic. You require your slave to stay home and not make any independent income. Is that different than telling her to hand over whatever huge chunk sum of money she might have had had she worked this whole time? Both ways it's simply the owner setting up a particular system to suit their desires, which the slave is required to obey.


Emerald Slave,

You are absolutely correct and I am in total agreement. I regret not pointing out that "my
way" is only "my way". I am very conscience of being redundant and I know in past posts at Collarme I've been taken to task for this position. I appreciate those couples living 24/7 as M/s who require two incomes to support themselves comfortably. As I said, this was my goal, for me alone. I push myself by setting goals and my, albeit archaic fundamentalist, beliefs about the responsibilities of a Master served me in many ways other then achieving ownership of beth.

Addressing the underlined portion of the quote, is there is a difference in this versus work and turning over income? Yes there is and it's a very basic one. Both paths strive to achieve the same destination, the two of you with your own private dungeon room in the senior citizens home, in all cases except one - the termination of the relationship. What happens then? Do you believe that a couple requiring both to work won't spend the money? Or do you think that the owner should put 100% of the money aside in a segregated account? I think the segregated account is fantasy. I don't believe that account would be segregated from any distribution of assets should the relationship fail. Most of us don't live in the world of an Anne Rice novel. Human nature and greed preclude that from happening. Of course this is just my cynical, jaded, ex-NYC never humble opinion.

At first I was going to respond to this by saying I don't plan for failure, but that would be a BIG lie. My planning always accounts for failure and options to take if it occurs. But in our case although there are some economic considerations made for failure, they are minimal. I'd say they aren't much different then the rare vanilla couple where only one spouse works. If you knew all the details about us, from the foundation of the contract we have, to our daily interaction, to the way we communicate without speech, you'd understand that failure truly isn't an option.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 11:24:24 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Addressing the underlined portion of the quote, is there is a difference in this versus work and turning over income?


Hi Merc, I think there was a miscommunication.

I agree, there is a difference in why someone would have one choice of doing things over another. The Owner requires me to maintain my finances independently, since he wants me to live independently from him. He also requires me to make my finances accessible to him whenever he wants.

I was asking more "Does it matter that one dom requires X when another dom requires Y *in terms of their dynamic*?" That was a sentence before the one you highlighted.

In other words, does it matter what one dom prefers to another, or does it matter simply that the dom requires it and it is obeyed? To me what matters is that the dom is obeyed.

And I don't think requiring obedience will turn the relationship into what a pro-dom/payer relationship is, even if its obedience regarding finances.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 12:03:31 PM   
angelica4


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		i am glad i did not follow through on one suggestion by my most recent Dom: to give Him my paychecks every two weeks and allow Him to put me on a budget. In the two years we were together He spent very little on me....any gifts were ones that would benefit Him as well as me....such as trips. He was supersensitive about being thrifty...but He had plenty of money, cars, etc. I see that He was just cheap. selfish. and i see that i don't want another Dom who is not generous. if He is not generous in spirit generally, how can He be generous of heart?
angelica (in a temporary state of bitterness)

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then close the valves of her attention, like stone."

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 12:23:55 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

In other words, does it matter what one dom prefers to another, or does it matter simply that the dom requires it and it is obeyed? To me what matters is that the dom is obeyed


Emerald Slave,
No. As much as many would like there to be 'one true way' - there isn't. Doms and lifestyle relationships in general are like snowflakes - no two are exactly alike. Once the power dynamic is agreed to and established the only consistent thread is the one you identify, obedience to the Dom/me.

If financial consideration is part of the obedience it can take on the appearance of a pro-dom relationship, but that very much depends on the dynamic of the rest of the relationship. If someone is 'allowed' to see their Dom only if they bring a $500 tribute - that's the same as the pro-dom. But if the Dom just is controlling the finances of the couple as part of a general household responsibility that's far removed from a comparison to a pro-dom.

I can't resist one other thought, unfortunately gender specific, but just to make a point. There is one occupation where the male Dom doesn't work and sits home while the sub goes out and works, returning at the end of the day turning all the earnings over to the Dom. In a particular industry, that Dom is known by a different name - pimp. I guess there is a female equivalent-Madam.But in my life - a LONG time ago she was know by another name - wife. Fortunately now and EX-wife!

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Hope you and others weren't bored by my prior reply.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 12:26:42 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelica
angelica (in a temporary state of bitterness)


You...bitter?? I doubt anyone has noticed.

Taggard

_____________________________

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My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to angelica4)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 12:28:13 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
returning at the end of the day turning all the earnings over to the Dom. In a particular industry, that Dom is known by a different name - pimp. I guess there is a female equivalent-Madam.But in my life - a LONG time ago she was know by another name - wife. Fortunately now and EX-wife!

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Hope you and others weren't bored by my prior reply.


I dunno, are you trying to say being a whore is a bad thing? :)

As a slave, being used/traded for services is part of my life. If I can provide something the Owner desires through my efforts, whether by directly making a loaf of bread, or buying a new car for him, or being traded (for sexual favors, service or money) so he can enjoy time with someone else, that's absolutely within the scope of my place in his life and I feel great about it.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/23/2005 12:53:58 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I dunno, are you trying to say being a whore is a bad thing? :)


No - Whores and prostitution in general should be legalized and protected as in the enlightened city of Amsterdam.

I admire the dynamic between you and your Master. Obviously the level of communication and trust between you has given you the confidence to live your life as you do. Your collective 'snowflake' is beautiful.

If you guys ever come to left coast, we'd love to meet you.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 9:51:57 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Sonelle,

Thank you for posting your experience as a financial Domme. I appreciate your insight and more your eagerness to be for these men what they desire. Your integrity is to be commended, and if some day I am in a similar situation, I will approach a submissive who craves financial dominantion in much the same way you have.

Thank you for helping me to open myself to this possibility.

Yours,
Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to LadySonelle)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 10:13:13 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Agree it was an excellent and sincere post. I am of the same thinking as Sonelle when it comes to financial domination; that it should always be about allowing the slave an opportunity to better himself and to ultimately achieve his best (in all areas of his life, not just financially).

Jasmyn

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 4:04:41 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline
quote:



And of course, slaves can be protectors too. Not only in the physical sense of being a bodyguard, but protect the owner from being late, forgetting things, being an extra pair of hands, whatever the situation calls for. If the slave is a better driver, then it makes sense for them to provide that service for safety reasons.

Mastery and submission aren't about ACTs. Any act can be submissive or dominant.



VERY perceptive and very well put!

When I collared My First Servitor, slave k, we had a ceremony which embodied your concept. I stood at the front of the room and k walked up to Me dressed in a pair of jeans and a shirt. I stripped her naked, took the knife from her belt which she had formally handed to Me and made a small cut on her throat as she knelt before Me. Not enough, or near enough to a blood vessel to be dangerous, but just a nick in the skin. Having "blooded the blade" I sheathed the blade and formally handed it *back* to her with the words "I return to you your power, to be used in My service forever.". She was then clothed in a beautiful white silk gown and wore the knife proudly along with the hand etched metal collar I placed around her neck.

Twice, in our long relationship, My slave has interposed her body between Me and potential danger. We are interdependent upon each other and I relish her power placed at My disposal but retained by a very capable, strong and focused woman.

Lady Sonelle


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 4:21:02 PM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Sonelle,

Thank you for posting your experience as a financial Domme. I appreciate your insight and more your eagerness to be for these men what they desire. Your integrity is to be commended, and if some day I am in a similar situation, I will approach a submissive who craves financial dominantion in much the same way you have.

Thank you for helping me to open myself to this possibility.

Yours,
Lily


You are very welcome! While hard to find, there *are* honest and good resources and websites pertaining to this fetish.
I am *not* going to advertise the site that I frequent, but it is an *excellent* resource for those in the FS community, maintained by an experienced and intelligent Domme. She keeps a weather eye on those who would just post and advert and leave. She manages to get rid of the scammers just with the professional and well-run tone of the site.

In the interests of keeping the site from being overrun (making more work for her, and she works hard enough at it!) I will give you only *one* clue as to its whereabouts and that is this: If you find a site on Google and go to it and it is predominantly green in colour, congratulations, you have found it! It is the best site on the web for FS (in My not so humble opinion!) and when I finally get My own site launched, I hope to be a valuable adjunct to her site.

Lady Sonelle

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 4:33:19 PM   
DiamondDiva


Posts: 266
Joined: 10/10/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Actually, I have heard of this as being wide spread on the international scene. I don't know how far it has been accepted here in the US however. I have received emails from supposed subs stating that they would pay for me to train them...to me that is borderline prostitution. [eek just my feelings] but, I am not surprised.

I have also heard of subs cleaning out their bank account to support the lifestyle of the Dom/Domme. Again, the innerworkings of a sick and unstable mind.



_____________________________

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" When someone is telling you who they are LET THEM!!!


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 5:58:21 PM   
FindingYou


Posts: 16
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

Well, after 23 years as a 'straight' BDSM practitioner, I have branched into Financial Domination.
I have done this for several reasons: 1. I want to learn new things and this (with three other 'new' fetishes) is something I intendd to learn. 2. I am very intrigued by this form of Dominance. 3. Several slaves have offered this to Me.

Interestingly enough, My first financial slave was/is an impoverished student! He lives on a frail pittance (less than $500/month!) but he begged Me to financially use him.

I did.

No, I did not take his money from him, nor did I use him and discard him! I find that type of play repugnant, violating My every tenet and vow! What *did* I do? I took over his life, put him on a budget and what tiny amount he could squeeze out, he was to place in a bank account, under *his* name but "dedicated" to Me. He was to keep the account growing, making a deposit with every masturbation he was permitted, and making monthly deposits.

as the account grew, he asked to give Me a gift. I told he he was to practise "financial chastity" and give no more than $20.00. What he does not know is this: I have no intention of touching that money he has so carefully saved! Not a bit! Should he have an emergency, he has been ordered to use the money in that account if needed. I have done him no harm, but I *have* controlled him the way he desired.

That, to Me is financial slavery in its best aspect! If I find a wealthy slave, no I will *not* "ruin" him as many of the Financial Dommes out there claqim they wish to do. My first responsibility is Primum non nocere "First, do no harm!" and the Hippocratic Oath. I will exercise control, as financial slaves desire to be controlled, but I stop short of the ruination many claim they want.

What does the submissive get from giving tributes? Probably the same thing he gets form serving. The satisfaction of pleasing a Mistress. If/when I receive gifts from slaves, I have photographs taken showing My enjoyment of the gift! The slave will receive a gift in return! he will have an extra day of masturbation, possibly a picture of Me, an article of My clothing, shoes, a personally written fantasy about what I will do to him in person, etc. For his tribute, the slave gets My time, attention, care and value in teturn.

So far, I have two slaves and I love them both as they love Me. In the Contract of Slavery I gave to them, there is a clause promising that I will never harm them permanently, nor ruin, nor abuse them beyond the agreed upon limits, mentally, emotionally, physically OR financially. I know My methods are far different than most Financial Dommes out there, but I suspect that it comes from My decades' experience in BDSM rather than being a "newbie" to the scene.

Lady Sonelle


Its easier to tear something down, that to build something up. This applies to poeple as well as buildings.

Money impacts every aspect of our lives, its no suprise that it should have some consideration here as well. Nice "toys" can be very expensive, I dont think its unreasonable for someone to make a contribution for the upkeep or expansion of the collection. (it doesnt have to be money - a new toy can bring all kinds of new delights to life)

I can see why the pro-femdom crowd loves the idea of blackmail and financial domination - it gives them money. However anyone wealthy enough to put them onto easy street probably is probably sophisticated enough to make them 'earn' thier money.

I have often thought that if I where ever in total control of someone, I would set aside some money for them each month. I would control access to the funds, but it would be there should she ever need to strike out on her own. To me, this just seems like a responceable thing todo. Relationships dont last forever, and even if does, there is the much feared mythical bus out there waiting for all of us... (the "what would you do if he was hit by a bus?" bus)

To me, it would seem, that the threats to ruin someone are somewhat hollow. Its part of the game to make these threats, I think its like the threats that some 'corporal punishment' dommes make. -You know the: "will beat the living tar outa you" types. I doubt that very many poeple sign up for the tar program, but I wonder if the threats arent there to 'impress' prospective clients that this domme has the temperment nessessary to whip you into shape. Subs seem to shop for experiences harsher than what they're ready for, and then limit the play to what they're ready for.


(in reply to LadySonelle)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/24/2005 8:15:08 PM   
Bwana55419


Posts: 22
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have long stated that people are free to send me cash, but I am also not going to accept any if there are strings attached.
I gave up on the whole prostitution thing ages ago.

(in reply to FindingYou)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/26/2005 9:12:42 PM   
kyakitten


Posts: 145
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176


quote:

ORIGINAL: Redb

I'm not talking about pro-dommes at all... that concept i get and understand. I'm talking about this kind of thing :

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

In the interest of sexual equality I've decided to begin allowing submissives of all genders to send me money. This is a sacrifice I have decided to make after much soul-searching but I believe it has to be done in order to even things out. Now there is an alternative available for those who wish financial domination but are more drawn to male dominants than female dominants. For those who might be concerned that I may over-extend myself through this act of altruism, let me assure you that I will take a portion of what I collect and devote it to my personal pleasure and relaxation.
Timothy


Why are they sending you money... are you selling them something... have you led them to believe that you are going to be-friend them ?? Trying to even out what ??? I just dont get it. Or are you taking the piss ?


It was humor.


Darn, does this mean I can't empty my bank account for you?

BTW, what were you going to do with the portion not dedicated to your own pleasure and relaxation?

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/27/2005 10:06:42 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Yes I have seen (and heard) of the scams, particularly from way off foreign countries. Hold my check till...sort of thing. Not sure how that works exactly. As for me and mine, we don't even require subs to work..I do not want their money..I want their service, devotion, etc. and in a way I think that by providing for them and being able to "allow" what I want when I want, simply because I am the provider, is the ultimate control. But then again..to each their own.

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(in reply to Redb)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Where does money come into it ? - 2/27/2005 10:35:02 AM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Redb

I'm not talking about pro-dommes at all... that concept i get and understand. I'm talking about this kind of thing :

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

In the interest of sexual equality I've decided to begin allowing submissives of all genders to send me money. This is a sacrifice I have decided to make after much soul-searching but I believe it has to be done in order to even things out. Now there is an alternative available for those who wish financial domination but are more drawn to male dominants than female dominants. For those who might be concerned that I may over-extend myself through this act of altruism, let me assure you that I will take a portion of what I collect and devote it to my personal pleasure and relaxation.
Timothy


Why are they sending you money... are you selling them something... have you led them to believe that you are going to be-friend them ?? Trying to even out what ??? I just dont get it. Or are you taking the piss ?


He is joking, using humor.... I got it.


_____________________________

PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

(in reply to Redb)
Profile   Post #: 40
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