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Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 5:21:28 AM

Chaingang

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"Family Planning Is Family Values"
Cristina Page, December 19, 2006
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/12/19/family_planning_is_family_values.php

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 7:18:14 AM

FirmhandKY

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You know chain, from an evolutionary stand point, I think that your pro-choice groups are just heading for extinction.

FirmKY

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 7:37:22 AM

Chaingang

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Is that supposed to be funny or moronic?

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 7:45:32 AM

FirmhandKY

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ohhhhhh ... you are offended?

FirmKY

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 7:56:40 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You know chain, from an evolutionary stand point, I think that your pro-choice groups are just heading for extinction.

FirmKY

________________________________________________________
FirmhandKY:
Why do you think the pro-choice groups are headed for extinction?
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/21/2006 7:58:48 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 8:20:02 AM

Chaingang

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Not in the least, just wanted to know how you meant it. For now I'll assume that the comment was intended as the kind that might have been made a moron.

I don't get offended about what others think of the choices I make in my life.

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 8:35:30 AM

NeedToUseYou

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That article appears to be written for the choir and isn't an honest evaluation of the pros and cons in my opinion. Rather a list of just the pros.

(in reply to Chaingang)

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 8:55:07 AM

mgdartist

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http://www.countercurrents.org/gender-laurance100106.htm

never been sure if I was pro-life or pro choice, but there are likely extrenes to which each can be taken. Investigating the stupidity of an entire culture can easily prove my point in the link above.
While I am admittedly ambivalent, I would stoutly concur with this:

quote:

"Female feticide should be treated as a crime and not just a social evil, therefore stringent punishment and punitive action is required," said Renuka Choudhury, India's women and child development minister.

Unicefs horrifying revelations show just how far the masses are capaple of going with the concept of pro-choice, and to me, that, in and of itself is just fucking scary.

But what's truly scary...

quote:

"10 million fewer girls were born here(india) than expected in the past 20 years."

other notable terminology used:

quote:

"large-scale "disappearance" of girls"

quote:

"7,000 fewer girls than expected are born each day in India, where women routinely suffer discrimination and parents often abort female fetuses."

quote:

"male child mania"

quote:

"skewed gender ratio"

at another link:

quote:

"...become especially noticeable in the India's wealthier regions,"

but this nearly brought tears:

quote:

"Even after birth, girls are at much higher risk of childhood death than boys. Female babies are less likely to survive the first year than their male counterparts, according to Unicef's infant mortality research. "After birth, son-preference continues to persist leading to the neglect of girls and their lack of access to nutrition, health and maternal care in these critical early years," the report said. and... "In India, girls continue to be regarded as liabilities who saddle their parents with the costs of expensive weddings and dowry payments, before moving to live with their husband's family."

I am aghast. an entire culture so prone to fetocide, flouting their own laws preventing ultrasound, are so consummately selfish as to kill off their own baby girls, thus making Hitler look like an angel.

Sweet Jesus PLEASE make those stupid motherfuckers stop killing off their little baby girls.

MGD

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 9:11:35 AM

Chaingang

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I think you'll have to address that prayer to Shiva or some other Hindu deity like that...

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 9:21:08 AM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Not in the least, just wanted to know how you meant it. For now I'll assume that the comment was intended as the kind that might have been made a moron.

I don't get offended about what others think of the choices I make in my life.

Mighty sensitive there, chain.

I have no idea what "choices" you have made in your life. I don't even know your gender.

Nor particularly care.

But, my statement was both true, and humorous.

I guess you have some emotional baggage that bothers you, which is why you would stoop to insults.

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 12/21/2006 9:37:22 AM >

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 9:52:59 AM

Chaingang

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What kind of freedom lover is opposed to choice? You'll have to explain that to me...

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 11:00:24 AM

losttreasure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

What kind of freedom lover is opposed to choice? You'll have to explain that to me...

*sighs* Chain... this is a very old argument and one that I doubt will ever be resolved... here or anywhere else. If you want to play word games, there's plenty on the Random Stupidity thread.

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 12

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 11:17:40 AM

aSlavesLife

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Such a touchy and emotion laden issue. I try to stay out of it as much as possible. I hate to see people use abortion as a form of birth control, and it is even worse to see it used for gender selection, but at the same time I don't feel as though I have any right to impose my views on others ( with the obvious exception of my slave ).

I don't see abortion as murder, but just because I don't see it that way doesn't mean that I see it as right, either. I know that there are medical reasons for some abortions, economical reasons for some others, and in my opinion purely selfish reasons for still others. I have had one dear friend that did not abort a child of rape and wished she had. I have had another friend abort because she thought the child would be an inconvenience to her and wished she hadn't. Both cases brought grief to the women, and by proxy to me, so I think that the issue is a lose-lose scenario no matter which side we take. Each side thinks they have the moral high ground, and since their morality is personal, in essence they are both correct in that stance.

(in reply to losttreasure)

Post #: 13

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 12:25:33 PM

missturbation

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"7,000 fewer girls than expected are born each day in India, where women routinely suffer discrimination and parents often abort female fetuses."

This is the main reason why in my area they will not tell you the sex of your unborn child. Too many people were then aborting because it wasn't a child of the sex they wanted.
On a similar note, when i was in hospital just after having my unmentionable the woman in the bed opposite me was constantly trying to kick her female baby off the end of the bed. The father came in on the same day she gave birth, pulled the curtain round and made an attempt to have sex with the mother. A warning went with this that if she did not give him a son this time shed be sorry.

On topic - i think everyone should have the choice to family plan if thats what they wish.

That article appears to be written for the choir and isn't an honest evaluation of the pros and cons in my opinion. Rather a list of just the pros.
Need to use you - Im not sure what could be seen as a con to family planning?

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 6:57:25 PM

thompsonx

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I see this as a womans issue and not a mans issue.
In addition I have not seen any of the pro lifers out there adopting in any meaningful numbers. Their arguement seems to be subtle or not so subtle; you made it now you must suffer your punishment for your moment of pleasure. Then of course bombing abortion clinics and murdering doctors and nurses....I thought there was a commandment about that sort of stuff.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/21/2006 7:02:19 PM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 8:02:14 PM

Arpig

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I agree with Thompsonx...the day I am pregnant is the day it is my decision...I would appreciate being consulted if the child were fathered by me, but in the final analysis it is between a woman and whatever extra-planar entities she whispers to late at night when nobody else is awake.

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/21/2006 11:32:04 PM

aSlavesLife

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There again I am on the other side of the fence. If a man is required by law to provide for his offspring, isn't the abortion issue also partially his concern? I am not trying to trivialize childbirth, but isn't that sort of like saying that I should pay for a vehicle but am not allowed to have any say in who gets to drive it? The man should not have ( in my opinion at least ) equal say in the matter, as he is not the one that will have to carry it for 9 months or give birth to it, but if he has a legal financial obligation for a childs wellfare, should the father not have some say in the matter of abortion?

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Post #: 17

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/22/2006 5:19:22 AM

Chaingang

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You know, the real focus of the editorial was CONTRACEPTION. Perhaps you use condoms to prevent issue and avoid diseases. Maybe you are fluid bonded with someone and enjoy the luxury of something merely intended to prevent childbirth. And so it goes...

Some of you haven't two brain cells I think. How could anyone oppose an organization that provides freedom of choice. How could anyone oppose such choice in the first place?

For those of you that prefer pregnancy russian roulette - nothing is stopping you from that very thing!

I find it amazing that on a site of this type we can't even get consensus on the pleasure of freedom for everyone to choose their own way of life. Sure, I have strong opinions. But I am not telling anyone else what to do. I am just revelling in modern freedoms denied to our ancestors.

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RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/24/2006 10:37:13 PM

Termyn8or

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Chain, fancy you, agreeing with a nut like me.

The way I put it is "If you don't like abortion, don't have one".

Being a good Citizen of this country, you have an obligation to fight for others' rights, and the right to expect them to reciprocate. This is not how it is however.

People spending more time trying to impose their will on everyone, than for introspection into whether their way is really right. If you indeed have a right, in this case the right to prevent people from having abortions, what is the responsibility associated with that right ? Nobody has the right to make others live and die on their decisions.

Even though in the rant section of another post I said I have the right to kill someone, it would take something pretty big to make me decide do it. It would not be over a parking space to say the least. Abortion is indeed murder, and it is a murder of convenience. Nonetheless I am still for it. Let's face it, if you are willing to kill your kids but are prevented from doing so, it is likely that I will have to do it in the future.

Contraception is the key, for all of us, agree or disagree. If unwanted pregnancies did not occur there would be no issue at all. People will not stop fucking, so what is the solution ? It is right there. Don't make a life simply to take a life.

I've met some Women who have had abortions and can confirm what another poster said, they regret it. Sometimes they go on to actually have kids, and then think "_________ should have a big brother or sister". I bet that is a trip that plays the mind pretty hard.

On the other hand, see my view of the value of life is not quite thwe same as most. The Woman who was regretful that she did NOT have an abortion should've known. The rapist should not be allowed to reproduce.

Eugenics ? Yes. Good for the human race ? Yes.

The human race has many many diseases now. We can no longer just treat the symptoms. We must treat the underlying cause of the disease. There are simply too many people to start with, and it is getting worse.

If you had cancer and they cut a tumor out of you, would you be concerned about that tumor's well being ? It is a form of life in a way is it not ? It is cells from your body.

Now think of the human race as a body, a bloated, fat, nasty and diseased body. What do you do ?

T

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 19

RE: Enlightening Editorial - 12/25/2006 7:32:33 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

And, no doubt, it’s also the reason that not one pro-life group in the U.S. supports the use of contraception even though it's the only proven way to prevent abortion.

I was not aware of this, not one pro-life group supports the use of contraceptions even when the people are married?

for those who are anti-choice, are you anti-contraception too? Because family planning is about preventing not only unwanted pregnancies, but also creating optimal reproductive health for women of child bearing years so when they do have children they will be more likely to be healthy and happy.

I have been a single mom for years, and I have used planned parenthood for my gynecological needs. I have not always been fortunate enough to have medical insurance, so their low cost testing, birth control, and consultations could have been a literal lifesaver for me and millions of other women.

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