RE: going too far (Full Version)

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Tikkiee -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 11:44:28 AM)

quote:

Where is it written that a slave has no rights simply because he/she is property?

It's written in the individual contracts; and in the words that are spoken betwenn those who enter into the relationship. If that is what they agree upon, then that is what is accepted.



simplyangelic1 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:04:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: emdoub

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I posted a thread about aftercare awhile back and most (not all) of the subs said they would be emotionally devistated if they were ignored after a painful punishment. There probably are a few subs out there who wouldn't feel resentment for a dom who walked away and left them in tears.


Um... Other people do things differently.

If I ever need to (and have the authority to) use a painful punishment, I fully expect it to be punishment - not a bit of aftercare, unless medical care is called for.

That's why it's punishment.

Rewarding a painslut with a heavy dose of pain 'cause they like it is a different matter entirely.

From my experience, the most painful punishment isn't physical in any case - it's emotional.

Midnight Writer



Why would you not give aftercare after physical punishment?  You still have the same dangers of a sub/slave going into shock etc as you would in a scene.  Only makes sense that a Dominate would want to make sure he/she is alright afterward.  Maybe not a snuggle fest as you put it, but still aftercare.  Just a thought.



punchingbag4luv -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:15:41 PM)

My thoughts on this are that the best advice is that she has to use HER best judgement. Telling her that a Master can do or say this that or the other and that bdsm is this or that does not help if the situation escalates. The thing is that eveyone is basing their advice on their own circumstances which is human nature but it may not be relevant to her. There are all sorts of circumstances that can make a scene go wrong unintentionally. It is up to that individual to decide the course of action ultimately.



simplyangelic1 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:35:19 PM)

I've read alot about using safe words and calling police etc.  Safe words are not a guarentee that a scene will stop.  Safe words are only as good as the Dominant that hears it.  Abuse can happen even if safe words are allowed.  Calling the police or even threatening to call is not the way to handle the situation.  As others have said, you need to let the Dominant know your status.  As my Sir told me just the other night, if I didn't tell him how is he to know.  It would also be a good idea to talk about scenes a day or two later.  What worked, what didn't etc, your feelings during.  Then your Master/Mistress knows what goes through your head during those times.


As far as slave rights.  If he/she has given up all their rights to their Mistress/Master, they still retain one.  That is to leave the relationship if it is not all they thought/dreamed/hoped it would be.  That being said, there is an inate human flight or fight response that will kick in if the body is pushed too far regardless of what you may or may not be allowed in your relationship.  There is not a single person who will lay still and allow someone to beat them to the point of serious injury.  The subconscience just won't work that way. 



bandit25 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:41:11 PM)

Yeah, that is the one right no one ever gives up...the right to walk away.



daddysprop247 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:51:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yeah, that is the one right no one ever gives up...the right to walk away.


that is actually a VERY false, although common, assumption. when i became a slave it was made crystal clear to me that i was giving up ALL rights, including the right to leave of my own free will.

also, simplyangelic mentioned that everyone has a "flight or fight" instinct, that will prevent them from accepting being beaten to the point of serious injury, even death. this too is simply not true. i have no such instinct, i have come across a fair number of others who have no such instinct. if you fully understand and accept that you are indeed property, and that your very life even is in the hands of Another, then it is not outside the realm of feasibility for you to accept injury, disfigurement, even death at your Owner's hands, without even a whisper of a fight.



bandit25 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 12:58:37 PM)

Without commenting on your choices, it is, in fact, one right you cannot, by law, give up.  Sorry, but slavery is illegal.  Whatever you two do...it is a choice you made.  Now, you may have agreed to give up all rights, and, in fact, you may abide by that agreement, but you simply cannot, by law, give up freedom.

Edited to add:  I am speaking of here, in the US



daddysprop247 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 1:09:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Without commenting on your choices, it is, in fact, one right you cannot, by law, give up.  Sorry, but slavery is illegal.  Whatever you two do...it is a choice you made.  Now, you may have agreed to give up all rights, and, in fact, you may abide by that agreement, but you simply cannot, by law, give up freedom.

Edited to add:  I am speaking of here, in the US


i'm sure you understand that law does not always match up with reality. the law says that you may not senselessly kill another person...yet the reality is that people are senselessly killed all day, everyday.
while legally i may have the rights to x, y, and z, if my reality makes taking advantage of those rights an impossibility, then the fact is i do not have those rights. i am not speaking of contracts or verbal agreements or trust here, but simple, clear, reality.



bandit25 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 1:13:37 PM)

Yes, I do understand that and I certainly do not want to get into any sort of a pissing match with you.  You have your beliefs and I respect that.  However, my point is that giving up those rights is a choice you made.  And choices are just that...choices.  It may be your mindset that makes you say that you cannot leave, but unless your Owner has you chained and watched continuously, you can leave.  You chose not to.  Again, I am not commenting on your life or your lifestyle...

Edited to add:  I just read your post again and I see that I missed a word...your reality.  Yes, your reality as opposed to reality.  I now understand.



daddysprop247 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 1:22:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yes, I do understand that and I certainly do not want to get into any sort of a pissing match with you.  You have your beliefs and I respect that.  However, my point is that giving up those rights is a choice you made.  And choices are just that...choices.  It may be your mindset that makes you say that you cannot leave, but unless your Owner has you chained and watched continuously, you can leave.  You chose not to.  Again, I am not commenting on your life or your lifestyle...

Edited to add:  I just read your post again and I see that I missed a word...your reality.  Yes, your reality as opposed to reality.  I now understand.


lol...no you do not understand at all. by "my reality" i mean reality, as in what IS. you seem to enjoy making assumptions. i am not trying to say that the situation you describe above is not true for some, perhaps for many. my point is simply that what you are saying is not a universal truth for all. i do not remain with my Master simply because i "choose" not to leave. i remain with him because he does not wish me to have the right or freedom to leave him of my own free will, therefore he takes measures to make leaving him an impossibility. it doesn't require anything so elaborate or extreme as 24/7 chains and cages either, imprisoning (for lack of a prettier term) someone is far easier than you may think.
i do understand that this is something that perhaps is so different from all you know and/or believe that you will likely never understand, or simply continue to believe is some sort of elaborate fantasy played out by extremists, but that does not change the facts that it is what it is.



bandit25 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 1:32:27 PM)

I made no assumptions...I simply read what you wrote.  In fact, it seems it is you who enjoys interpreting others' words, not me.  A universal "truth" as you put it is...slavery is illegal in the United States.  And how you live your life does not change that either.  You have your way of living your life and I have mine.  Neither is better...they just are.  It may be easier to imprison someone than I think it is...I have no knowledge of being imprisoned.  It's not my way of life.  I think it's prolly best if I don't comment on this again.  Please believe me, I am not making any judgments...why would I? 



ownedgirlie -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 1:34:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yeah, that is the one right no one ever gives up...the right to walk away.


While it may be our Federal right in this country, for some of us the emotional and spiritual connection is so strong we could not walk away if we thought we wanted to.  I never really understood that sentiment until I was faced with it myself. 



MagiksSlave -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 2:38:53 PM)

We arent really gunna have this same fight with Daddysprop again are we???

Magik's slave



ImpGrrl -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 2:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yeah, that is the one right no one ever gives up...the right to walk away.


Yes and no.

One certainly can put aside that right, until they determine it's needed.  It becomes moot, until they decide it is no longer moot.

Some slaves will keep it moot even through grevious harm.  That's their choice.  Some will not.

But until (if) they decide they again need to use that right - it might as well *not* exist for all the good it'll do them.




Emperor1956 -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 3:12:34 PM)

Here we go again, it seems.  daddy'sprop247, there is a saying that appears over and over on chat boards, and you appear to need to hear it again:

You have the right to your opinions.  You do not have the right to your facts.

I respect your opinion, and I know bandit does too.  But in fact you are not a slave simply because you declare you are one. 

I understand entirely the concept of "owned property".  Indeed, I have owned a slave who, had she been asked to discuss her enslavement, would have said much of what you have said in this thread, although frankly I hope that she would have done so more demurely, and would not have continued to argue when her behavior became unseemly. 

I also understand that ownedgirlie is correct in speaking of the powerful feelings that create a Master-slave bond in a place where actual enslavement is illegal.  But in fact you are not legally cognizable owned property outside of your and your Master's dynamic.   When you say: 
quote:

i do not remain with my Master simply because i "choose" not to leave. i remain with him because he does not wish me to have the right or freedom to leave him of my own free will, therefore he takes measures to make leaving him an impossibility
you are simply wrong.  You choose to remain with him every moment you remain with him.  This is not opinion.

Perhaps you need a reality check, daddy'sprop?  Might I suggest the following:  Go to the nearest Maryland State Police station tomorrow.  Walk in and say exactly the following to the desk officer on duty:

"Sir, I am a slave who has ventured out from my Master's home with the idea that I wanted to end my enslavement by coming to the police.  But I have decided that I was wrong in doing so, and as I am absolutely his owned property, I must go back.  I recognize that he owns me and may do what he wishes to me, and I know you will support that arrangement.

Please drive me to [give him your Master's name and address] where I will return to my enslavement, which will entail my being beaten mercilessly for my transgression, possibly starved, abused sexually and otherwise, perhaps being sold to others for their sexual and/or sadistic enjoyment, and -- if He chooses -- my death.  Thank you sir."

Let us know how it goes, OK?

E.



crouchingtigress -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 4:51:25 PM)

Hey E, good conversation as always...i think i might jump in here for a sec if i may....i think daddysprop is saying that she has been so conditioned (read internal enslavement or brainwashing which ever way you want to look at it) that it would be physically impossible to go to the police station and just as physically impossible to go against her owners wishes.....her body and mind would not allow it.....there are numerous studies on brain washing that conclusively prove that we are capable of being rewired to this extreme and even beyond it....and that it is not really that hard to do, the techniques are pretty simple, they are well documented and used in many governments as well more subtly in society in general.
 
and the funny thing is we are all conditioned to this extream....for example i could never have sex with an UM.....even at gun point (although i cant say for sure on that because i have never been at gun point ) was i born with this conditioning? no....i learned it...and yet it is so deeply entrenched in me as to be at the very core of my internal construct ie: to do so would be devistaing to me i would rather take the bullet.
 
 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 5:24:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic
cjenny, to answer your question, no Dom or Master worth a damn would ever whip their sub/slave in anger.

Umm false.  Just plain false.

Heck, playing in anger is something I really dig into- both as a mistress and a slave.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 5:29:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
I totally agree, can we agree that there is a difference between a submissive and a slave?
Also, there are levels of submission also.
Great thread.


LOL what on earth does that have to do with this subject?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 5:31:54 PM)

quote:

Why would you not give aftercare after physical punishment?  You still have the same dangers of a sub/slave going into shock etc as you would in a scene.  Only makes sense that a Dominate would want to make sure he/she is alright afterward.  Maybe not a snuggle fest as you put it, but still aftercare.  Just a thought.

If you would read the other posts on this topic you will read that aftercare on the part of the dom is not always required, let alone desired by the participants.

Making sure everyone is ok is everyone's responsibility at all times.  If a sub has particular needs above and beyond that- they need to communicate them beforehand. 



MagiksSlave -> RE: going too far (1/7/2007 6:39:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Here we go again, it seems.  daddy'sprop247, there is a saying that appears over and over on chat boards, and you appear to need to hear it again:

You have the right to your opinions.  You do not have the right to your facts.

I respect your opinion, and I know bandit does too.  But in fact you are not a slave simply because you declare you are one. 

I understand entirely the concept of "owned property".  Indeed, I have owned a slave who, had she been asked to discuss her enslavement, would have said much of what you have said in this thread, although frankly I hope that she would have done so more demurely, and would not have continued to argue when her behavior became unseemly. 

I also understand that ownedgirlie is correct in speaking of the powerful feelings that create a Master-slave bond in a place where actual enslavement is illegal.  But in fact you are not legally cognizable owned property outside of your and your Master's dynamic.   When you say: 
quote:

i do not remain with my Master simply because i "choose" not to leave. i remain with him because he does not wish me to have the right or freedom to leave him of my own free will, therefore he takes measures to make leaving him an impossibility
you are simply wrong.  You choose to remain with him every moment you remain with him.  This is not opinion.

Perhaps you need a reality check, daddy'sprop?  Might I suggest the following:  Go to the nearest Maryland State Police station tomorrow.  Walk in and say exactly the following to the desk officer on duty:

"Sir, I am a slave who has ventured out from my Master's home with the idea that I wanted to end my enslavement by coming to the police.  But I have decided that I was wrong in doing so, and as I am absolutely his owned property, I must go back.  I recognize that he owns me and may do what he wishes to me, and I know you will support that arrangement.

Please drive me to [give him your Master's name and address] where I will return to my enslavement, which will entail my being beaten mercilessly for my transgression, possibly starved, abused sexually and otherwise, perhaps being sold to others for their sexual and/or sadistic enjoyment, and -- if He chooses -- my death.  Thank you sir."

Let us know how it goes, OK?

E.


Thank you Sir this was much better said then i could have aspecially since Im rather tired of Daddysprop but I wont get into that...

that truth is everone is so carefull what they say to her as to not upset her or make her think her ideas are wrong yet she seems to think only how she sees things are right ok Im done ranting because Im beeing unseemly now too

Magik's slave



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