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BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 11:53:15 AM   
onestandingstill


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My views of Christianity are far from any organized religion point of view.
I have spent the past twenty years studying all faiths Christian and otherwise.
In my heart I believe in God and Jesus.
I just think man has perverted God's word for the betterment of society.
In a nut shell I think monogamy is a concept of men and not God.
Back in the bible disease was rampant, as there was not plumbing or electricity or medicines to cure what ails people now.
The road map of how to live 2000 years ago applied then but not so much now.
Now people can get treatment, be clean and support children in single family households.
Back then a single woman with kids was homeless, as she was not allowed to own property etc...
Human society is way different now then it was then.
I also think when it comes to extreme sensation play that if it makes you happy it's not against God.
God is joy, love and happiness.
He joins in your joy when you’re happy.
Again society has taught us pain is bad, not God.
God says offer your suffering up to him for your sins.
There are numerous quotes in the bible that condones you having an earthly Master.

Here's a couple of Biblical Quotes I burrowed from another thread here:

1 Timothy 6:1-2 reads:

All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against. Those who have believers, as their masters must not be disrespectful to them because they are brethren, but must serve them all the more, because those who partake of the benefit are believers and beloved. Teach and preach these principles.


Ephesians 6: 5-9:

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

Titus 2: 9-10:


Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.








Following the life that Master wants you to lead or being that Master is following God's rules in my opinion.

I'd also say go back and just read Genesis there are lots of quotes in the first ten pages of the good book that mention a Master and his slaves.

In the end God has written his rules in your heart and his spirit will let you know when something is wrong to do. Trust your discerning spirit more than what you hear from others or what you read.
Your gut has all you need from God to know if it's right or wrong.

Really if you seriously want answers go read the bible again.
Skip the boring lineage stuff and stick to the words and messages.
Now you've got your eyes open to this realm I know you see evil, pain and perversion all on the same levels in a lot of cases.
In a lot of those cases you're correct. There are indeed HUGE DEMONS running rampant in the BDSM society.
What you have to realize is those same demons possess people in the vanilla world too. Look at the news for example.
Society is getting darker as a whole.
I hate to say it, but I'm a very realistic person and I think over 40% of the D/s relationships I've seen are unhealthy. Then there are another 20% of people that are single that are unhealthy.
20%of single people I know are healthy, they just have no healthy relationship as they look for their needle in the haystack.
In 20% of the healthy BDSM oriented relationships I've seen in the face to face huge society of over 3000 people I only respect the position of three couples in the whole shebang enough I could live by their value system and kinks.
Mind you I respect in the 20% that are emotionally healthy people, in an emotionally healthy exchange.
I just differ in the concepts of how they think a BDSM relationship works internally.
Those are the people who I say my kink is not their kink and that does not make it not OK for them or wrong in my eyes, it’s just not me.
I also respect numerous people I have met on the web.
The only thing is till I’ve seen their interactions personally I really have no opinion of their relationships.

You have to be very careful in whom you align yourself with in the world as a whole as the devil tells you everything you want to hear.
He dangles the riches of the world to buy your soul.
That's why you have to stick to your GUT.
GOD'S SPIRIT LIVES THERE IN YOU.
We rationalize things we know are wrong because society and peer pressure push us to doubt our own gut.
We think in time this other person will get it and see things from our point of view.
We rationalize they are right for us and they’re over all a good person other than X.
Remember your insecurities and fears are sometimes the voice of angels protecting you and not just your own neurosis.
There's a wonderful book the Ethical slut.
Read that.
I think that will help you find more balance in what really matters to you and what you want to be viewed as by others.
I hit 40 and in my mid life chris's have decided if what I do does not hurt anyone directly those that are offended by my life are entitled to their opinion.
I am entitled just as much to have my own.
I live by the integrity I see fit to mold myself by and no other.
When I serve a Master as his slave, the only way I'll become that for anyone, will be by him already being aligned with my views or I will not accept the offer to be in his service.
This is not a game to me, this is my life.
As someone's sub I feel it's a lot different as I'm still entitled to my own seperate identity.
Even in that, before I would take that station I'd have to like the view of his life I've seen with my own eyes.
Trust is not earned, but not friviously spent in my world in a D/s relationship.
In the end I think if the tug of being a submissive or slave to someone concerns you as far as your faith start digging.
It's not far off on how God says the structure of society should be.
And on monogamy.
Think about who gave the message in the bible on monogamy.
It was Moses who had two wives and had seen all their sisters do the dance of 7 veils.
Think about it.....
suzanne



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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 12:46:12 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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I 've been told I have some strange views myself. For example, the bible says magic is evil. Wiccans practice white magic, but they worship nature instead of God. I believe in worshipping God so I'm not Wiccan. According to the bible Jesus walked on water, healed people, turned water to wine, and raised Lazarus from the dead. How are these miracles he performed not acts of white magic? I have often wondered if the person who transcribed the Holy Bible didn't take a shortcut and list magic as being evil instead of black magic. How are those who attempt to use magic for healing or to bring about positive change evil when they are simply trying to help others just like Jesus did? As far as bdsm, nothing in the bible says that scening is wrong as long as there is no sex outside of marriage (which most of us have done even outside of bdsm). I think it is very possible to be into the lifestyle and be a Christian.

(in reply to onestandingstill)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 1:39:59 PM   
slavejali


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1 Peter 3:5-6 (New International Version)
For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

I don't see why Christians couldn't participate in a Master/slave BDSM relationship hey.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 1:46:27 PM   
Littlepita


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I'm a Christian and I don't have a problem with mutual consent BDSM play. I have issues that I struggle with in my faith and I pray those will be worked out eventually.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 1:56:56 PM   
junecleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL:onestandingstill In a nut shell I think monogamy is a concept of men and not God.
 I'm quite the opposite.  I think monogamy is a concept of God or at least a lot closer to a concept of God then polygamy.  If we are speaking biblically, two people were originally created to meet and satisfy each other's human needs entirely.  That was the original design.  So I look at polygamy as a somewhat flawed way to fufill a person's needs.  And maybe you need to practice a flawed method to live in a flawed world....I don't know.  In my first few years of the whole BDSM thing, I used to think poly people were probably unsatisfied and searching for something they hadn't yet found.  I met some people who reaffirmed this.  But since I've met some extraordinarily healthy, serene, amazingly 'whole' polygamists.  And I don't hold as closely to these opinions as I used to. In most Bible stories polygamy ends up causing trouble.  Look at Jacob.  Look at Abraham.  Look at Solomon.  There's never an instance of Yahweh divinely commanding anyone to have more than one wife.  Women were property and property was (still is) a status symbol.  The more women you had the better your status.  (Again, lots of people still think like this.)  Polygamy was around before the Jews became a people group and it was a practice I figure they probably adopted as a means to look cool to everyone else. Then there is the New Testaments view where the church and God are compared as husband and wife and there is no third party.  Then there's the book of Hosea now that I think about it. Basically, the Bible is a book and you can make it say almost anything you want.  I agree with you in that the back bone of my faith comes from a part of me answering a part of God.  It's not something I can control or stop.  It's like...if strawberries are your favorite food, you can't help it.  You didn't decide on it.  The cravings still come even if strawberries are out of season.  It just comes naturally.  It's something that just is.  If someone proved the bible to be an entire fabrication, I would probably still believe because the message resonates with me personally. And I could probably go on for hours, but I'm going shopping.  Yay.  Will be interesting to see if others reply.

_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 2:03:47 PM   
domiguy


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I think it becomes a matter of take & put Christianity...take what you want and leave the stuff you disagree with....It probably doesn't make you a good Christian but nowadays we can justify about any religious practice from calling one's self a scientologist,druid, or christian.  Make up your own religion depending on your shoe size.  If it fits keep it.

You can find one particular passage in the bible to support any claim you would like to make...However, the bible is a fairly rigid book...it speaks of not only how to treat others but how to live our lives as well....Trust me the idea of serving a dom master and then some how equating that to Godliness or Christ like is beyond belief...You could never justify a bdsm relationship...in the eyes of the bible or christianity..the two are truly not compatible.

If it makes you feel better go on ahead 'cause in the end no one knows...I'm betting the son of God was not European(joke...jesus is always conveniently portayed as white in North American churches)and was not born to a 13-16 year old Jewish virgin...Poor Joseph having to explain that one to his beer drinking buddies.

Mold christianity to fit whatever lifestyle you like...who cares.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

(in reply to Littlepita)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 2:44:43 PM   
Focus50


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While I'm not religious, I have no problem with believing in a divine creator....
 
But it gets really murky once man puts his own interpretations on anything.  For all the "God is love" mantras etc, nothing creates hatred quite like different religious philosophies.  Unspeakable obscenities have been carried out in God's name over the ages and probably always will.  Yesterday's crusades and inquisitions are today's army of Muslim martyrs....
 
Oversimplified?  Probably....  But if a Muslim wishes to marry a Catholic and their respective families are outraged to the verge of violence (or worse), is this God's love at work?  Or man's ignorance?  They are just two humans in love and wishing to marry, no?  What's the harm?
 
The way I understand it (admittedly it's been 40 yrs since I was in church), God gave us ten commandments but man gave us the bible and the koran etc - and all the grief that emanates from different interpretations.  To quote Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman - Superman) - "People are no damn good"... lol
 
But I'm being flippant....  I think it's a checkbox at Alt (haven't been there in ages) that says "Religion is not part of my life".  Nothing is truer of me.....
 
I'm a decent, law abiding citizen who does have minor flaws and vices.  One flaw I don't have is "religion" and BDSM certainly isn't a vice, so neither bring me guilt.  D/s wise, I have unique needs compared to the average vanilla.  Fortunately *God* also created a complimenting opposite to fulfill those needs - what could be more natural?
 
Poly or monogamous?  I'm the latter but that's personal choice, as either should be for anyone.
 
Focus.

(in reply to onestandingstill)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 2:50:48 PM   
meatcleaver


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2000 years ago in Germanic Europe women had property rights and held onto those property rights through marriage and divorce. The adoption of middle east religions did away with those rights and it has taken a very long time to get them back. I just don't understand why women involve themselves in such misogynistic religions.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 4:06:17 PM   
RedSavageSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I just don't understand why women involve themselves in such misogynistic religions.


its the masochist in us that make us do it...

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My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 4:22:08 PM   
Trampler


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LOL I am a masochist, and hate misogynistic religions!

Born again Pagan!

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 4:43:05 PM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
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From: Chicago, IL
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interesting post and i agree with everything you said however to hear it from the Black Baptist church pov, BDSM ranks up there with  sex before marriage as a sin.

i grew up around this environment (grandfathers, uncles and father included all prominent founders and members of churches in PA) and by the time you reach your teens it was time for the HUGE sex talk not from your parents but from the church's pov and Bible stuffed down your throat.

oh they do preach the same scripture verses like the ones you posted esp stressing the one: wives submit to your husbands most Sundays when the spirit moves them. it's like a double standard - they will preach submission and etc however they will consider the BDSM lifestyle a sin.


_____________________________

there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.


collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to onestandingstill)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:06:33 PM   
NaiveTempest


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I'm sorry but I must inject here. I have to disagree on your outlook of Wiccans, defiantbadgirl,  because I AM one. Not all Wiccan "worship" nature. Do we all "revere" nature? Yes, but that is not the same as worshipping it. Just as there are many types of Protestants there are many types of Wiccans. Some Wiccans call themselves Christian Witches and just practice Christianity there own way. Some, while not Christian, are still monotheistic, and others are polytheistic, and still others simply believe in some sort/type of higher power.

All THAT aside, lol. I agree with everything else you said. Like mymasterssub69, I grew up Baptist and it always amazed me how the scriptures could be twisted to suit anyones fancy half the time. Or how sometimes you were taught one thing only to be taught something else later that totally contradicted the prior teaching. A lot of people refused to stop and acknowledge that since the Bible was written things have changed.

< Message edited by NaiveTempest -- 1/6/2007 6:13:19 PM >

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:25:33 PM   
bandit25


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I grew up Baptist too and the church never mentioned bdsm. 

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:27:13 PM   
mymasterssub69


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

I grew up Baptist too and the church never mentioned bdsm. 


you're invited to attend the church i went to as a teen


_____________________________

there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.


collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:31:34 PM   
KatyLied


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Isn't there a case for polyamory and multiple relationships made in the bible?  During old testament times, wasn't it common for poly relationships?  Was this just for cases of couple infertility?  Or was it a generally accepted practice?  Did it become a big no-no after the ten commandments?

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 1/6/2007 6:32:06 PM >


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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:40:45 PM   
bandit25


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Was it here in Chicago?  I grew up in one of the south suburbs.  My dad was very active in the church (an elder).  I'm interested.

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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:44:56 PM   
mymasterssub69


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it's located in the Pulliam neighborhood (southeast side of Chicago)

my father was a deacon at the church before he decided to leave for another one.


_____________________________

there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.


collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to bandit25)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:45:34 PM   
junecleaver


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Joined: 4/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't there a case for polyamory and multiple relationships made in the bible?  During old testament times, wasn't it common for poly relationships?  Was this just for cases of couple infertility?  Or was it a generally accepted practice?  Did it become a big no-no after the ten commandments?
 You could make a case for it I'm sure.  Yes, it was common.  No.  Yes, it was generally accepted.  No, the ten commandments don't really deal with it.

_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 6:54:28 PM   
juliaoceania


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There seems to be a lot of discussion about relationship forms and spirituality. There tend to be certain aspects to environment, population, economic base, and the type of relationships people form.

Cultures that have labor intensive needs, want large families, and have hostile climates tend to have polygamy

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to onestandingstill)
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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/6/2007 10:44:27 PM   
domiguy


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If you read and can comprehend the bible it is not possible to live this "lifestyle." and be a  "good" Christian.  End of story.  If you are like the majority of self described christians then you will take from the bible whatever you find relevant to yourself or situation and discard the rest...Atta boy/girl! Now you are a good Christian!...Hypocrites!

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.....especially when they try to think you approved of munches and dungeons.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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