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RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 3:41:12 AM   
steviemichael


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		humm i am wondering if the oringnal post is orignal thoughts certianly  the qutos from the bible are not but are most certainly taken out of the context when those passages were talking about a people of their times and in their culture.
of course NOTHING is oringnal when it comes to expressing a view (sic) everything is taken from the memory banks of the past,so we justify our actions based on the past and use the experiences of others since the word 'God' whatever your concept that means to you or does not matter to you; It* She * Him * is waving a virtual flag with the motto EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG .
be well  move  in the path you have choose .

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 4:31:03 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		i see examples of D/s in all things including religion and spirituality. However i am hard pressed to find sado masochism in anything except as a lifestyle choice beyond a persons natural tendencies toward domination or submission. Are there examples of S&M in religion out there?

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to steviemichael)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 4:35:21 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

If you read and can comprehend the bible it is not possible to live this "lifestyle." and be a  "good" Christian.  End of story.  If you are like the majority of self described christians then you will take from the bible whatever you find relevant to yourself or situation and discard the rest...Atta boy/girl! Now you are a good Christian!...Hypocrites!

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.....especially when they try to think you approved of munches and dungeons.


If one really believed in bible taught morality, one wouldn't be whipping the arse off ones sub but going out and committing genocide, indulging in incest and generally being an all round nasty person.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 6:15:20 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline







quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

humm i am wondering if the original post is original thoughts certianly  the qutos from the bible are not but are most certainly taken out of the context when those passages were talking about a people of their times and in their culture.
of course NOTHING is oringnal when it comes to expressing a view (sic) everything is taken from the memory banks of the past,so we justify our actions based on the past and use the experiences of others since the word 'God' whatever your concept that means to you or does not matter to you; It* She * Him * is waving a virtual flag with the motto EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG .
be well  move  in the path you have choose .


Actually the bible quotes came up the other day and got me thinking about the M/s relationship and faith again.
Then yesterday someone wrote me and asked for my view on how I could be into BDSM and Christian.
I answered him in 2 letters. The answer was what you see above.
So while they are my own theory and my own wordsI did copy and past them from a message I'd created earlier in the day.

While I'm here I want to thank all who've read or expressed opinions here about this. Even the ones against my views were enlightening.
Be Well,
suzanne

(in reply to steviemichael)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 8:05:01 AM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		The Churches stance is not so much against BDSM but against porn and the explotation of our bodies for profit But that is the Catholic faith after vatican II. Before vatican II I can not tell you and it doesn't surprise me that the Baptist sects are against it. No offence but I have no patience for the Holy Roller born again crowd.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 10:50:39 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I believe in God.  But God did not write the bible.  Men wrote what they wrote as a guidebook for what worked at the time.  Rules that made sense physically, mentally, and societally to promote growth of their culture.
Naturally it made sense to counsel slaves to obey their masters.  If you create a rule that tells a slave they must obey because God has commanded it, as it shows him well to the creator, they would be more apt to obey.
But consider, slavery was a job, a way to be housed, fed, and cared for as they aged.  If your options were limited, it would benefit you to follow the rules.  People still do it in jobs with slave wages.
Rules were created by men to make things run more smoothly.  And they were perverted by men to give them more power.
I use men here generically, though by a large I believe those are the ones who wrote the rules.
I believe in God.  I don't believe in religions beyond their use as a system of rules created by men.
What I do in a BDSM sense, I don't feel the need to justify with religion.  I do it because it works for me.  I will cease to do it when it no longer fits for me.  I don't need a rulebook to prove what I am doing is right.  And I sure don't need that same list of rules to tell me how wrong I am when I stop.
In the meantime, I will continue to believe in God and hope that my life reflects the spirit of creation.
Kyst


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 10:59:55 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I'm not sure why you pride yourself on being a nontypical Christian. You sound like most of them imo. Except that you're poly, but that would fit in with some Mormons.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 11:04:49 AM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i see examples of D/s in all things including religion and spirituality. However i am hard pressed to find sado masochism in anything except as a lifestyle choice beyond a persons natural tendencies toward domination or submission. Are there examples of S&M in religion out there?


actually yes but not like you would think. There are a few order that during the weeks before Easter they beat themselfs with cats/flogger to reach that level that transends the physical thinking that this brings them closer to understanding what Jesus went through if not closer to Jesus himself..... I'll goggle it and get back to you. In all honesty I do not view S/M activities as part and parcel of D/s. I see them more like pasttimes, some people scrap book others like being caned.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 11:52:59 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		My question to you DG would be how are they incompatible, you say they are incompatible regardless of what scriptures others bring up that tell wives to submit to their husbands and slaves to obey their masters, so my question to you would be why do you think they are incompatible other than a blanket unsupported statement to that affect? 

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 12:22:43 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not clear exactly what you are saying here. Could you explain it further, please?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

If you read and can comprehend the bible it is not possible to live this "lifestyle." and be a  "good" Christian.  End of story.  If you are like the majority of self described christians then you will take from the bible whatever you find relevant to yourself or situation and discard the rest...Atta boy/girl! Now you are a good Christian!...Hypocrites!

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.....especially when they try to think you approved of munches and dungeons.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 2:08:51 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline


Mat 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.




Mat 7:22

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?




Mat 7:23







And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything

Simply put...With Christianity Adultery is a sin.  Jesus reaffirmed what was stated in the Old testament...another reocurring theme is to treat others as we would like to be treated ourselves.

I'm not preaching...Personally I'm under the impression Jesus was a great man...To each their own...But none the less this "lifestyle" I can only assume does not compliment nor abide by the teachings of Christ.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 3:57:32 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks, you got me thinking and i realized there are many examples in many forms.i just wasn't thinking outside the box! lol!



quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i see examples of D/s in all things including religion and spirituality. However i am hard pressed to find sado masochism in anything except as a lifestyle choice beyond a persons natural tendencies toward domination or submission. Are there examples of S&M in religion out there?


actually yes but not like you would think. There are a few order that during the weeks before Easter they beat themselfs with cats/flogger to reach that level that transends the physical thinking that this brings them closer to understanding what Jesus went through if not closer to Jesus himself..... I'll goggle it and get back to you. In all honesty I do not view S/M activities as part and parcel of D/s. I see them more like pasttimes, some people scrap book others like being caned.


_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to BDSM05478)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 4:25:19 PM   
NaiveTempest


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/20/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I believe in God.  But God did not write the bible.  Men wrote what they wrote as a guidebook for what worked at the time.  Rules that made sense physically, mentally, and societally to promote growth of their culture.
Naturally it made sense to counsel slaves to obey their masters.  If you create a rule that tells a slave they must obey because God has commanded it, as it shows him well to the creator, they would be more apt to obey.
But consider, slavery was a job, a way to be housed, fed, and cared for as they aged.  If your options were limited, it would benefit you to follow the rules.  People still do it in jobs with slave wages.
Rules were created by men to make things run more smoothly.  And they were perverted by men to give them more power.
I use men here generically, though by a large I believe those are the ones who wrote the rules.
I believe in God.  I don't believe in religions beyond their use as a system of rules created by men.
What I do in a BDSM sense, I don't feel the need to justify with religion.  I do it because it works for me.  I will cease to do it when it no longer fits for me.  I don't need a rulebook to prove what I am doing is right.  And I sure don't need that same list of rules to tell me how wrong I am when I stop.
In the meantime, I will continue to believe in God and hope that my life reflects the spirit of creation.
Kyst



I agree. God did not write the Bible, Man did, and Man has changed it and interpreted it over the centuries to suit there own needs. I wonder just how much truth is left in the Bible? Just how close is it to God's and Jesus's commandments and teachings? I can't base my life off of blind trust and acceptance in a book written by Man, that's like trusting that everything the government says to me is complete and utter truth with no ulterior motives. I think the only true temple/church in ANY religion is the one in your heart and the relationship that YOU form with whatever Higher Power you may worship. Don't look to a book to justify your actions.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 5:02:26 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i see examples of D/s in all things including religion and spirituality. However i am hard pressed to find sado masochism in anything except as a lifestyle choice beyond a persons natural tendencies toward domination or submission. Are there examples of S&M in religion out there?


actually yes but not like you would think. There are a few order that during the weeks before Easter they beat themselfs with cats/flogger to reach that level that transends the physical thinking that this brings them closer to understanding what Jesus went through if not closer to Jesus himself..... I'll goggle it and get back to you. In all honesty I do not view S/M activities as part and parcel of D/s. I see them more like pasttimes, some people scrap book others like being caned.

What you seek to discuss is the Opus Dei sect of Franciscan Monks.
They believed their pain was an atonement for others sins.
suzanne

(in reply to BDSM05478)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 5:17:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_651144/mpage_1/key_christian/tm.htm#651149
"Christian" bdsm?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_101393/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#101393
bdsm lifestyle vs christianity/religion

http://www.collarchat.com/m_112713/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#112713
bdsm spirituality???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_114995/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#114995
Christianity and ds bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_154410/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#154410
a sacred take on bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_168844/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#168844
bdsm and religion

http://www.collarchat.com/m_176205/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#176205
sensuality & religion = what?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_193896/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#193896
religion and bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_275551/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#275551
christians everywhere!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_323932/mpage_1/key_religion%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#323932
no...not the spiritual trip

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299050/mpage_1/key_faith%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#299050
power and spirit

http://www.collarchat.com/m_133611/mpage_1/key_spirituality%252Cbdsm/tm.htm#133611
bdsm and spirituality?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 5:25:44 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Again it is fine to say that the bible was written by man which is correct...But then you have the difficult task of determining what is the "word" of God or the "writings" of man.  Either way it is rather difficult to say you are a "good" Christian when you ignore or choose not to live by what is mandated in the book.

Maybe it's time to throw the book in the lake and invent you own religion...because that what pick & choose Christians are doing.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 5:32:41 PM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		I think that religion is OK ,as long as you realize that like the lifestyle.
The followers and beliefs should be based on a person to person basis.

In the end all religions are based on a simple truth.
Protect life and understand others choices.

I just despise the part of this religion that tells them all others are wrong.

Thats just their population booms talking.
  I mean are they going to go to Islam and say Jesus is the only god?

No, but since i,m here I,m stuck with two kinds of people.
The ones who care enough with their hearts to see me for who I am.
And the ones that label me ,and eventually try to make my life into some conformist pain in my backside.

I,m left  judging these people not on religion.
But based on who they are.

So forgive me if I ever seem anti Christian.
Its wrong of me at times.

But damn will they ever say that?

As for the lifestyle and religion.
I guess i,d say start with who the person is.
If you like them enough, did it ever really matter?

For one of my past girlfriends it did.
And in the end all that love I felt.
Just became second to a indifference she couldn't put down.

All gods are great.
People however are iffy.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 7:41:26 PM   
NaiveTempest


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/20/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		LA, you always manage to pop up with a killer list of prior post. How do you do it? Do you save'em all or just search for them or something else?

<pondering in admiration>

_____________________________

"All the things I should have said that I never said/All the things we should have done that we never did/All the things I should have given, but I didn't.../Give me these moments back..."

Kate Bush, "This Woman's Work"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 8:28:48 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

If you read and can comprehend the bible it is not possible to live this "lifestyle." and be a  "good" Christian. 
p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.....especially when they try to think you approved of munches and dungeons.




You know, I have read a few different versions of both the Old and New Testament Bibles as part of my education, and except for Apostle Paul's rantings against sex and pontifications against women, I dont really
recall any particular passage in the Bible which is oppositional to sex or BDSM.

Most of the quotes attributed to Jesus seem to send a lesson of tolerance and kindness and happiness.

But that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: BDSM & Christianity to me - 1/7/2007 8:38:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NaiveTempest
LA, you always manage to pop up with a killer list of prior post. How do you do it? Do you save'em all or just search for them or something else?

<pondering in admiration>

Thanks Naive.

The first time I do a search is the hard part.  I take the time to look up as many as possible, and pluck out the ones I find most relevant to the question at hand.

After that, it's just a matter of finding the list you've already made and adding the latest post to it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to NaiveTempest)
Profile   Post #: 40
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