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big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:09:03 PM   
subslaveb0y


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline 		Okay, so I was arguing with a female dominant, who objected when I commented that way too many female dominants appear just to want money and to have no real interest in d/s and bdsm. Here was her response --

Also, the part I take offense to is your comment about the "gold diggers". I am not a Pro, but I have absolutely no problem with requiring a tribute to those who I feel should pay. There are many reasons why I find nothing wrong with women accepting, or even charging for sessions and such. This lifestyle is extremely expensive. Even some of the cheaper toys run at least 30.00. Not to mention how much it costs to rent a dungeon or buy the equipment for their own home. Why should the Domme have to buy everything and the sub gets to enjoy it without contributing anything. You also seem to have failed to see the other side of this scenario. What about the "subs" out there who are specifically looking for a lifestyle Mistress, just so they do not have to pay anything? Or, how about the "subs" who are just pretending to be and just want a quick, cheap way to get off? So the Domme who is looking for something more than a one night thing gets tricked into using Her toys in Her space and is left with nothing, while the "sub" got what they wanted and gave absolutely nothing to the Domme or the situation. Another reason, one I just learned recently, a lot of subs out there LIKE to give money to a Domme, be it by "blackmail" or key holding or other ways, they actually get off and get pleasure by "being forced" to give a/their Mistress money. Before you go running your mouth again, you should figure out the other person's views so you can change yours accordingly.

I wrote a big long response message to this, but she blocked me before I had to respond (last word syndrom, I believe). Rather than waste it, I thought I'd post what I wrote on this board, in case anyone is interested or wants to provide feedback. I've used this website for a while now, and I frequently read the board, but I've never posted, so I guess I can compensate now by posting the following overly long response:


The whole reason I tend to emphasize developing a l/t, meaningful relationship is that I want to distinguish myself from those some subs who just want a cheap thrill or "a quick, easy way to get off." That's specifically what I don't want to be portrayed as...

That aside, are you really going to defend those dominant females seeking "generous money pigs" or "pocketbook slaves"? What they seek is illegal and is specifically against the rules of this website. They threaten the very existence of this website and are harming the d/s community. Who cares whether some guys get off to it? They're part of the problem as well.

I don't really have a problem with pro domination -- as you said, these people might need specific equipment -- not to say, though, that someone needs all kinds of fancy gadgets to dominate. There's a website, frugaldomme.com, that might interest you, that proves my point.

There's something subtly contradictory in there being so many individuals seeking "financially secure" live-in slaves. If what these dominants truly seek is just a slave, someone to serve them 24/7, why does it matter whether or not this slave has a nice portfolio? THAT is what is actually amusing here -- the original notion of a slave is basically someone who has no money, who is owned by someone with a lot of money -- not the other way around.

I hope to see, as time goes on, more *true dominants* to emerge into the scene. If these individuals are intelligent and sophisticated -- as I require in a dominant -- they might already possess the means to support as many slaves as they desire, without resorting to anything illegal. To date, I seen very few profiles along these lines.

Not that owning a slave should really require that much funding, again... that's what's really laughable here... the whole notion of a slave is someone on whom you spend as little money as possible to support his or her existence... otherwise, people would never have used slaves in the first place!

I don't know... do I really seem that unreasonable here? It is pretty funny, in the end... strange times.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:35:23 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting conversation.

I will be honest and state that I know only a few female dominants personally.  I disagreed with a couple of them over this subject.  My disagreement stemmed more from their viewpoint that if a male dominant was to do this same thing with a female submissive, they would consider him a "lazy ass" who needed to "get out and make his own damn money".  When I asked why, they said it was because that is the way it is supposed to be...the men are supposed to pay for things, whether they be submissive or dominant.   Once I got through shaking my head about that, I asked them about the control that the money will eventually give to the one who has it and gives it (in all but the most stupid cases).  That was when the defense came out that they weren't dominating him for the money, they would do so anyway but that it fit into the male submissive's fetish that he give them money first............and of course, they just had not happened to run into any poor male submissive that they would have dominated with or without money.

I don't know why some female dominants are the way you describe or feel the way I have noted.  But not all do...that's for sure.  As I said, I only know a few female dominants personally.  Of that group, the majority are not what the two I mentioned above are/were.  I would agree with you, judging from the posts on this subject just since I joined, that there seems to be an increase in the number of them on collarme.

Takes all kinds to make a world.  Perhaps it would be better upfront to ask someone whether or not they are into the financial thing in any way, find out what way, and then decide right then and there whether or not you wish to continue.






(in reply to subslaveb0y)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:37:33 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline 		You talk too much.

Make it simple.

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Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:46:06 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subslaveb0y
That aside, are you really going to defend those dominant females seeking "generous money pigs" or "pocketbook slaves"? What they seek is illegal and is specifically against the rules of this website. They threaten the very existence of this website and are harming the d/s community. Who cares whether some guys get off to it? They're part of the problem as well.

You're assuming that everyone has the same like and dislike of things. For some people, they truly DO have a fetish about being a money pig. If they didn't how in the hell would these women still be in business? Someone, somewhere is paying...and happily so. If you don't like it, move on. No big deal.

quote:


There's something subtly contradictory in there being so many individuals seeking "financially secure" live-in slaves. If what these dominants truly seek is just a slave, someone to serve them 24/7, why does it matter whether or not this slave has a nice portfolio? THAT is what is actually amusing here -- the original notion of a slave is basically someone who has no money, who is owned by someone with a lot of money -- not the other way around.

So, in order to be a Dominant, one must be financially well off with a portfolio? That's an absurd assumption.

quote:

Not that owning a slave should really require that much funding, again... that's what's really laughable here... the whole notion of a slave is someone on whom you spend as little money as possible to support his or her existence... otherwise, people would never have used slaves in the first place!

REALLY? I thought it was about service and care. You are certainly making a case for saying that YOUR are a golddigger and merely looking for a Woman to take care of you and be a sugar mamma.

The real point is this: if you find someone is doing something that you don't like or that offends you, simply move on. What they do is all based on "their stuff". You don't have to react negatively to it...in fact, you can choose to not react at all and look at the next profile.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to subslaveb0y)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:47:43 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not going to address the "tribute" thing.  My views are plentiful on that subject right here on this forum, as are the opinions of many others.  The search function will return just about as much as anyone could want to read on the topic.  As always, those who feel like chewing on this particular piece of fat are welcome to.


quote:

ORIGINAL: subslaveb0y

I hope to see, as time goes on, more *true dominants* to emerge into the scene. If these individuals are intelligent and sophisticated -- as I require in a dominant -- they might already possess the means to support as many slaves as they desire, without resorting to anything illegal. To date, I seen very few profiles along these lines.


Pardon me, but I find myself struggling with my knee-jerk reaction to the term "true" dominant (much the same as I would the term "real").  My reaction notwithstanding, all one need do is create a profile that says "dominant woman" to be inundated with more inquiries than can reasonably be expected to respond to.  Add a picture to it and you'll triple the inquiries.  Why would a woman with the means to support a slave advertise that she can?  To my mind a woman of intelligence would not own something that didn't add value, nor would she be in a hurry to add to the detritus that already falls at her door.  With that in mind, I doubt you are going to see the sort of profiles you dream about any time soon.  There are only a few chateaus in the U.S., privately held and not like what you've read in fetish stories.

I tell submissive men that if they put their net worth on their profile they should expect to get responses from women who are interested in their money.  If a woman put an expectation of tribute on her profile then it's a pretty good possibility that she's looking to hear from men that want to pay said tribute.  If that's not you then why do you care?  If it's never been you and you have no experience with women who do take tribute then on what do you base your unsolicited opinion (which is only a judgement in disguise)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: subslaveb0y

Not that owning a slave should really require that much funding, again... that's what's really laughable here... the whole notion of a slave is someone on whom you spend as little money as possible to support his or her existence... otherwise, people would never have used slaves in the first place!


Read up on your history, particularly ancient roman.  You might be surprised to find that respectable citizens/ slave owners of ancient Rome considered the care and feeding of their slaves a significant responsibility.  I wish I could remember the quote that suggests that a Master would sleep without a pillow if necessary to enable his slave to have one.  A responsible owner understands that in terms of needs, those they are responsible for come first because that is part of being an owner.  I realize, however, that this scenario rarely fits the stereotypical "keep me naked and enslaved always" fantasy of contemporary, consensual slavery.  Which brings me back to:

Why would an intelligent woman own something that didn't add value?  The good and bad of that is that she gets to decide what value is in her life.  You get to live with it or not.



_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to subslaveb0y)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:50:32 PM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline 		Wow, hand over my paycheck and recieve abuse from a woman.... sounds like a vanilla marriage. Really though, in the spirit of equality perhaps all dominants should start charging, regardless of gender. I mean after all, male dominants have to spend money on equipment too.

Hmmm, but maybe we are just naturally more responsible for our spending habits. So maybe, just maybe, male doms not charging reflects a more dominant, in charge nature than dommes possess. This of course would not apply to dommes that don't charge, as they would naturally have their act together as well as their male counterparts.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:58:09 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Interesting conversation.

I will be honest and state that I know only a few female dominants personally.  I disagreed with a couple of them over this subject.  My disagreement stemmed more from their viewpoint that if a male dominant was to do this same thing with a female submissive, they would consider him a "lazy ass" who needed to "get out and make his own damn money".  When I asked why, they said it was because that is the way it is supposed to be...the men are supposed to pay for things, whether they be submissive or dominant.   Once I got through shaking my head about that, I asked them about the control that the money will eventually give to the one who has it and gives it (in all but the most stupid cases).  That was when the defense came out that they weren't dominating him for the money, they would do so anyway but that it fit into the male submissive's fetish that he give them money first............and of course, they just had not happened to run into any poor male submissive that they would have dominated with or without money.

I don't know why some female dominants are the way you describe or feel the way I have noted.  But not all do...that's for sure.  As I said, I only know a few female dominants personally.  Of that group, the majority are not what the two I mentioned above are/were.  I would agree with you, judging from the posts on this subject just since I joined, that there seems to be an increase in the number of them on collarme.

Takes all kinds to make a world.  Perhaps it would be better upfront to ask someone whether or not they are into the financial thing in any way, find out what way, and then decide right then and there whether or not you wish to continue.


I had this really weird dream years ago... it was something about women's lib? Those type of women make us all look bad. They want equal rights, equal pay, equal opportunity.... but when it comes down to stems and seeds they want the man to pay for it all. I've never been interested in womens lib... my husband brings home the bacon and takes care of the bills... I stay at home and am spoiled rotten... so is twicehappy. The only time money comes into the equation when looking for an addition to our home is whether or not they have huge bills. Minor bills we don't mind paying... but in dept up to your ass... we mind. We don't want them to have to work outside the home, it's a responsibility we take on.
 
I don't agree with "tribute"... period. If my sub/slave wishes to get me a birthday present... great... Christmas time... wonderful. But just to get my attention? Hell no. I/we buy my own toys and pay our own bills.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 5:58:35 PM   
akbarbarian


Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline 		My opinion is that men put up with alot of crap in general, due to there being more options available to the average female for a partner.  Guys will hump the leg of most any woman, the stupid horny fuckers.  What that does, is get across the idea that men will accept any crap treatment.  Until we have some standards of fairness and consideration, those used to exploiting will continue to exploit.  I don't expect the whole of mankind (used to refer specifically to males in this case) to develop higher standards, but I can sure decide to do it myself and set the boundries and requirements forth that I need.  I'm fine with pro doms and subs, but the idea that a woman should be able to charge where a man shouldn't rankles me.

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Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:02:04 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

...but the idea that a woman should be able to charge where a man shouldn't rankles me.



I quite agree, but then I do know pro male dominants.  They're out there, just not in large quantity.  Probably has something to do with supply and demand.


_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to akbarbarian)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:07:00 PM   
akbarbarian


Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

Wow, hand over my paycheck and recieve abuse from a woman.... sounds like a vanilla marriage. Really though, in the spirit of equality perhaps all dominants should start charging, regardless of gender. I mean after all, male dominants have to spend money on equipment too.

Hmmm, but maybe we are just naturally more responsible for our spending habits. So maybe, just maybe, male doms not charging reflects a more dominant, in charge nature than dommes possess. This of course would not apply to dommes that don't charge, as they would naturally have their act together as well as their male counterparts.


Having a value added service sounds interesting.  Charge more for use of the really cool stuff.  Of course there is the issue that I'd want to use it too.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to aSlavesLife)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:12:06 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know why men can't charge...they can do whatever they want.  Now, will someone pay them?  That's the question.

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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:13:13 PM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

Wow, hand over my paycheck and recieve abuse from a woman.... sounds like a vanilla marriage. Really though, in the spirit of equality perhaps all dominants should start charging, regardless of gender. I mean after all, male dominants have to spend money on equipment too.

Hmmm, but maybe we are just naturally more responsible for our spending habits. So maybe, just maybe, male doms not charging reflects a more dominant, in charge nature than dommes possess. This of course would not apply to dommes that don't charge, as they would naturally have their act together as well as their male counterparts.


Having a value added service sounds interesting.  Charge more for use of the really cool stuff.  Of course there is the issue that I'd want to use it too.


Great idea. Flat hourly rates, additional charges for wear and tear on equipment. Offer a basic package for people, then an additional fee for other equipment based on what it costs. Even throw in an insurance policy. Call the place Rent-A-Dom/me.

But now comes the next question. If prodommes have to charge because their equipment costs so much, what excuse do prosubs have for charging? Wear and tear on their asses?

(in reply to akbarbarian)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:31:30 PM   
BalletBob


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		WOW ! And I bet most of those that charge, are in New Jersey, the "State of Confusion". I wouldn't be dumb enough to pay, for any of these things. Now I would love to and have given Birthday and Christmas Presents to MADAM, but she would never think of charging for anything, when we were Sessioning. I was there to please her, and we both had a lot of fun.

This is supose to be FUN for all, and not like a JOB ! If the guy wants sex, go to a Hooker, if he wants Bondage, go to a Mistress.

As for Toys costing a lot of MONEY ! DAH ! Make the Sub bring his OWN TOYS ! I did, everytime, and MADAM used her rope or Heels on me. Mostly everything needed, I brung, and not costing her, One Cent.

Still looking for Free Cyber Mistress, BalletBob

LMCLAO

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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:36:57 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
For some people, they truly DO have a fetish about being a money pig. If they didn't how in the hell would these women still be in business?


Are there really a significant number of men like that? i mean, i know that there are people out there with any fetish you can dream up, but i really consider "financial domination" to be something dreamed up by exploiters to take advantage of the fact that there are countless male submissives for every Female Dominant, and consequently many who will take whatever type of domination they can get.

i love the argument that Dommes need money to buy their dungeon gear. i actually got to see the playspace of a local pro who hosted a munch there... it wasn't bad, but except for her Violet Wand, there was nothing i hadn't purchased or made myself for the "love of the game". Then a couple years ago, she decided to retire from the profession and sold it all

i know it's a dead-horse topic, but i'm feeling froggy tonight

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:39:01 PM   
subslaveb0y


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline 		Mis Suz wrote:

Why would an intelligent woman own something that didn't add value? The good and bad of that is that she gets to decide what value is in her life. You get to live with it or not.


My response:

If something as dramatic as a slave's serving you and your needs 24/7 doesn't strike you as immeasurably valuable, more so than any money in the bank, then the original question remains -- are you really committed to a bdsm lifestyle? For its own sake? Or, are you a fake and a fraud? [I'm using the general "you" there] Sometimes it seems like this whole mess is just the engineering of men's overactive imagination, through and through, with women finding ways to fit in here and there to a model that ultimately has nothing to do with them. Mistresses are bought more often than slaves, it would seem...

(in reply to aSlavesLife)
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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:51:46 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		They do because they can.  A man's Achilles heel is his sex drive.  Men hold the lion's share of the wealth and power in his world.  This is THEIR only control over the women.  And the women have their source of control over them via the man's primal drive.
 
When a woman (in general) gives the man what he wants.. he calls her bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat.  Gee, thanks guys.. and we were being nice like you wanted.  Now, when a woman charges for her favors.. again, she is called  bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat, but in the latter scenario she has some sort of compensation.
 
I'm a Domme that just simply won't play with a man if it's"going to take my time, be too much trouble, cost too much".  I have things that I enjoy and the tools to create them.  I'm a firm believer that people need to build their OWN play bag with the things they enjoy and not expect others to provide  the hardware.  That's how you solve THAT problem.  
 

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 6:59:59 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I choose to chime in just 'cuz I'm a little bored.  All you have to do is change the parameters of your search so you get to the dommes.  Upon arriving at the domme search you will notice that the majority of these women/prostitutes are asking for compensation. 

The question then becomes are they even dominant(does it even matter) or is this just a way to bring in some stupid sub johns and extract some cash for their services?  I don't recall seeing too many profiles of Doms requesting "tribute" from their female subs.

Now there are going to be people who say that there are people out there paying ..so if you don't like it, move on.
And that is true to a point....There are people who will pay for just about anything in this world...and unfortunately there are others who will always be willing to supply their need. 

Lets face it, if this is the path you've chosen to make a few bucks...it is rather pathetic...and that is where I will leave it....Just like all the other parasites in this world...it would be nice if the "host" had the common sense to knock or scratch them off.

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

_____________________________



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RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 7:04:02 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Now, domiguy, as I said, a Dom can ask for tribute all he wants...will he get it?  If he does, that's ok by me just as it's ok by me if a domme gets tribute.  I don't know if I'd call it pathetic, but you gotta admit...if no one was paying, then they couldn't charge.

I guess the thing is...if someone wants to charge and someone else wants to pay, well, that's up to the two of them.

< Message edited by bandit25 -- 1/12/2007 7:06:42 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 7:12:53 PM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

They do because they can.  A man's Achilles heel is his sex drive.  Men hold the lion's share of the wealth and power in his world.  This is THEIR only control over the women.  And the women have their source of control over them via the man's primal drive.
 
When a woman (in general) gives the man what he wants.. he calls her bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat.  Gee, thanks guys.. and we were being nice like you wanted.  Now, when a woman charges for her favors.. again, she is called  bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat, but in the latter scenario she has some sort of compensation.
 
I'm a Domme that just simply won't play with a man if it's"going to take my time, be too much trouble, cost too much".  I have things that I enjoy and the tools to create them.  I'm a firm believer that people need to build their OWN play bag with the things they enjoy and not expect others to provide  the hardware.  That's how you solve THAT problem.  
 


My apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting this, but it seems as though you are condoning the stereotype attitudes of both males and females, and using this as justification for charging. This really seems to me to be a counterproductive approach toward creating greater equality in our society. It seems to boil down to something like

" Men have an unfair advantage and are repressive. Instead of working to bridge the gap between the sexes, lets exploit a biological weakness of theirs and exploit them financially, thereby somewhat evening the score. "

Would it not be better to work on changing the views of both male and female? For example,encouraging the removal of the glass ceiling while simultaneously pushing for equal rights for male parents. Would
this not serve the human race in general? Is the approach of soothing hard feelings on both sides not preferable to encouraging the exploitation of one sides weaknesses and creating rifts that people have worked so hard to bridge?

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: big argument over female dominants - 1/12/2007 7:15:32 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		 I'm confused!  <------- see, that's the confused me.

I understand there are pros who charge for their services, but do people actually pay money to be in a "meaningful, romantic" D/s or M/s relationship?  Yes, I get it that not everyone is looking for romance, and maybe I'm misunderstanding something.... somewhere.  But are people actually paying a dominant money or giving them goodies, and in essence saying.... "Hello Potential Owner of My Heart, here is a hundred dollar down payment, would you date me, fuck me, beat me (fill in the blank me), and hopefully this will develop into a beautiful committed relationship."?  

Just trying to learn here.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 20
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