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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I guarantee all the good stuff will end up in the first shirts stash.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Cindy Sheehan did not give her Son to anything.  She sacrificed nothing.  Her Son joined as an adult, against her wishes.  And then he Re-enlisted to go back over there.  Cindy Sheehan was anti war and a left wing activist before the Iraq war started.  Her son has nothing to do with her views at all.  She has desecrated her Son and what he was willing to fight and die for though, in an attempt to push her own agenda.  She deserves nothing but scorn.  She is a disgusting old woman.

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ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
I guarantee all the good stuff will end up in the first shirts stash.
thompson

     Yeah, we are familiar with your attitude about the military and those who choose to serve.  Just because fucking with the fuck-ups is part of the First Shirt's job description, they are all worthless too huh? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: lighthearted


I have NO intention of jumping in this fray...I only want to inform anyone who reads the above and feels inspired to act, to check out the website www.anysoldier.com.  it is an excellent resource:  of what to send, how to send, how to find someone to send to.  you can select from servicemen and women stationed all over the world.  

I would, in fact, challenge each person that has contributed to this thread to take 5 minutes, find a serviceman at this website, and send them something, anything, to acknowledge their service and make their day a little better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


I'm confused why people give credit to the opinion of people that lost someone in war,

Because the leaders who told half-truths, misstatements and outright lies to START the war, have children who do NOT serve, and the families don't take the same risks as the Sheehan family did.

That's being a hypocritical rat, but hey, does anyone REALLY expect honor from a Bush?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

   Nope, I don't know Cindy Sheehan.  I have ripped her activities and will probably continue to do so.  Perhaps it is the result of her loss or maybe she was a whacko bitch long before.  I knew several guys who joined because it seemed like the only way to get out of a psycho mom's crappy house.  From what I've seen and heard her say, I'd have run like hell the day after graduation.  Personally, I joined after my first year of college.


  As for the bit you snipped, how does constantly denigrating their leadership show support for the troops?  How do attempts to cut off their food and (really bad quality, government issue) toilet paper say "we love you?"

You see, I have very little respect for this attitude... she gave up her child, you gave up nothing... that is the way I see it.  Like I said, you have no concept, you are not a parent. You have not carried a child in your womb, reared that child, lost sleep for them, nurture them, watched with pride as they became an adult. You have no clue what it is to lose a child... it is the hurt that never goes away. You spoke of throwing up for fear of your brother. Now I love my sibs.. I have three of them... but there is no way I could compare the loss of one them with the loss of my heart... and my kid is my heart. You just are ignorant is all, you just do not know, and never will.

Be glad you will never know, I am sure Sheehan wishes she didn't

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


I'm confused why people give credit to the opinion of people that lost someone in war,

Because the leaders who told half-truths, misstatements and outright lies to START the war, have children who do NOT serve, and the families don't take the same risks as the Sheehan family did.

That's being a hypocritical rat, but hey, does anyone REALLY expect honor from a Bush?

That really didn't answer the question I was asking in my complete original post.

quote:


My question was/is why is Sheehan's opinion important?

quote:


As in why should I hold her opinion to a greater regard than others. Loss doesn't infer insight on any given subject other than loss. If anyone can tell me why or how she knows more and/or understands more then I'd be glad to take her views more seriously than anyone elses.

quote:


Losing somebody doesn't fill that requirement, to me anyway. This could be applied to Jane Fonda as well, who doesn't even have the loss sheehan has.

quote:


Why does anyone listen to these people for information? Seeing they aren't over there, they've never been in the military or Iraq, they don't have a degree in international politics, as far as I can tell they have no basis I can recall for being held up as a representative for a cause, and they speak to emotion primarily.

quote:


I'm at a loss where the creditability comes from in the first place

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Nope, I don't know Cindy Sheehan. I have ripped her activities and will probably continue to do so. Perhaps it is the result of her loss or maybe she was a whacko bitch long before. I knew several guys who joined because it seemed like the only way to get out of a psycho mom's crappy house. From what I've seen and heard her say, I'd have run like hell the day after graduation. Personally, I joined after my first year of college.


As for the bit you snipped, how does constantly denigrating their leadership show support for the troops? How do attempts to cut off their food and (really bad quality, government issue) toilet paper say "we love you?"

You see, I have very little respect for this attitude... she gave up her child, you gave up nothing... that is the way I see it. Like I said, you have no concept, you are not a parent. You have not carried a child in your womb, reared that child, lost sleep for them, nurture them, watched with pride as they became an adult. You have no clue what it is to lose a child... it is the hurt that never goes away. You spoke of throwing up for fear of your brother. Now I love my sibs.. I have three of them... but there is no way I could compare the loss of one them with the loss of my heart... and my kid is my heart. You just are ignorant is all, you just do not know, and never will.

Be glad you will never know, I am sure Sheehan wishes she didn't

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.
Now she tours the country exploiting her situation, though tragic for her family, its not hers alone. Many familys have lost children, husbands, wives in this conflict and in the peace time training. Its never something that you can say.. oh well I guess it was his/ her time. Its always going to be painfull.

But it was his choice and I will not try to speak for him, but All the guys I know would be ashamed if their/my mom did what she has.

S

quote:

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

    The mission description doesn't always describe the methodology, Thom.  When I reported in to March, there was a big rectangular patch of dead grass on the lawn in front of the barracks.  It seems there had been a rash of room inspection failures and the First Shirt had ordered a 10-man tent set up and put the slobs in there.  There were daily inspections.  I would call that, "fucking with the fuck-ups."  Would you prefer I descibe him as the 'NCOIC: Chickenshit?' 

   I await your admission that you are incorrect[:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

  Nope, I don't know Cindy Sheehan.  I have ripped her activities and will probably continue to do so.  Perhaps it is the result of her loss or maybe she was a whacko bitch long before.  I knew several guys who joined because it seemed like the only way to get out of a psycho mom's crappy house.  From what I've seen and heard her say, I'd have run like hell the day after graduation.  Personally, I joined after my first year of college.


As for the bit you snipped, how does constantly denigrating their leadership show support for the troops?  How do attempts to cut off their food and (really bad quality, government issue) toilet paper say "we love you?"

You see, I have very little respect for this attitude... she gave up her child, you gave up nothing... that is the way I see it.  Like I said, you have no concept, you are not a parent. You have not carried a child in your womb, reared that child, lost sleep for them, nurture them, watched with pride as they became an adult. You have no clue what it is to lose a child... it is the hurt that never goes away. You spoke of throwing up for fear of your brother. Now I love my sibs.. I have three of them... but there is no way I could compare the loss of one them with the loss of my heart... and my kid is my heart. You just are ignorant is all, you just do not know, and never will.

Be glad you will never know, I am sure Sheehan wishes she didn't

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.
Now she tours the country exploiting her situation, though tragic for her family, its not hers alone. Many familys have lost children, husbands, wives in this conflict and in the peace time training. Its never something that you can say.. oh well I guess it was his/ her time. Its always going to be painfull.

But it was his choice and I will not try to speak for him, but All the guys I know would be ashamed if their/my mom did what she has.

S

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.

How many children do you have?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

   The mission description doesn't always describe the methodology, Thom.  When I reported in to March, there was a big rectangular patch of dead grass on the lawn in front of the barracks.  It seems there had been a rash of room inspection failures and the First Shirt had ordered a 10-man tent set up and put the slobs in there.  There were daily inspections.  I would call that, "fucking with the fuck-ups."  Would you prefer I descibe him as the 'NCOIC: Chickenshit?' 

  I await your admission that you are incorrect[:D]

WyrdRich:
Your diatribe has not proven anything except that perhaps all of the NCOs between the fuck ups and the first sergent were incompetent.
I would caution you against holding your breath while waiting.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


I'm confused why people give credit to the opinion of people that lost someone in war,

Because the leaders who told half-truths, misstatements and outright lies to START the war, have children who do NOT serve, and the families don't take the same risks as the Sheehan family did.

That's being a hypocritical rat, but hey, does anyone REALLY expect honor from a Bush?

That really didn't answer the question I was asking in my complete original post.

That's because I was only responding to the idea I had quoted.

quote:


My question was/is why is Sheehan's opinion important?

Everybody's opinion is important.

quote:


As in why should I hold her opinion to a greater regard than others. Loss doesn't infer insight on any given subject other than loss. If anyone can tell me why or how she knows more and/or understands more then I'd be glad to take her views more seriously than anyone elses.

Here's the thing. You SHOULD BE taking her, well, ANYONES views seriously, not by who she is, but by the factual validity and moral resonance of her arguments.

quote:


Losing somebody doesn't fill that requirement, to me anyway. This could be applied to Jane Fonda as well, who doesn't even have the loss sheehan has.

Neither do Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rice, etc...

quote:


Why does anyone listen to these people for information? Seeing they aren't over there, they've never been in the military or Iraq, they don't have a degree in international politics, as far as I can tell they have no basis I can recall for being held up as a representative for a cause, and they speak to emotion primarily.

Experts aren't right just because they're experts. That's a logical fallacy. And what has all of Condi Rices "degree in international politics" resulted in except a few hundred thousand dead? If that's what those credentials get you, seems than you listen to Condi Rice, then do the EXACT OPPOSITE.

quote:


I'm at a loss where the creditability comes from in the first place

Well, first you listen to what people have to say, then you research their past track record to establish credibility, and their assertions for truthfulness. In that you YOU are able to assign some values to a persons credibility.

Stop expecting the people on TV to tell you who is credible. They aren't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.

How many children do you have?

   This is an invalid argument based purely on an appeal to emotion.  By the same logic you use, you would not be able to say anything valid about our economic system since you don't have a job.  Have you recused yourself from those topics?

   Be careful what standards you hold others too, lest you be held to the same ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Nope, I don't know Cindy Sheehan.  I have ripped her activities and will probably continue to do so.  Perhaps it is the result of her loss or maybe she was a whacko bitch long before.  I knew several guys who joined because it seemed like the only way to get out of a psycho mom's crappy house.  From what I've seen and heard her say, I'd have run like hell the day after graduation.  Personally, I joined after my first year of college.


As for the bit you snipped, how does constantly denigrating their leadership show support for the troops?  How do attempts to cut off their food and (really bad quality, government issue) toilet paper say "we love you?"

You see, I have very little respect for this attitude... she gave up her child, you gave up nothing... that is the way I see it.  Like I said, you have no concept, you are not a parent. You have not carried a child in your womb, reared that child, lost sleep for them, nurture them, watched with pride as they became an adult. You have no clue what it is to lose a child... it is the hurt that never goes away. You spoke of throwing up for fear of your brother. Now I love my sibs.. I have three of them... but there is no way I could compare the loss of one them with the loss of my heart... and my kid is my heart. You just are ignorant is all, you just do not know, and never will.

Be glad you will never know, I am sure Sheehan wishes she didn't

I would dissagree with your assesment that Cindy Sheehans son was taken from her. He like, myself and countless others grew up, became adults, and chose to join a branch of the military. Many moms have sleepless nights for their childs choices.
Now she tours the country exploiting her situation, though tragic for her family, its not hers alone. Many familys have lost children, husbands, wives in this conflict and in the peace time training. Its never something that you can say.. oh well I guess it was his/ her time. Its always going to be painfull.

But it was his choice and I will not try to speak for him, but All the guys I know would be ashamed if their/my mom did what she has.

S

Sternhand4:
So it would appear that you approve of bush & co. using american troops to steal the oil of Iraq under the guise of making the world safe for democracy or some other trite bumper sticker justification for international thugery.
It would appear that your circle of friends is pretty small.
I am curious as to why you are not in uniform you seem so much in favor of the conflict in Iraq.  Don't tell me that they will not take you because I know better.  They are taking people over 60, overweight, and with only one leg.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

WyrdRich:
Actually I think that some day you may come to the conclusion that being rude to those you disagree with  is not the hallmark of an adult.
thompson