RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:47:44 PM)

Susan, perhaps you could start a poll in the polling section and cross reference it with this post by dropping a link (especially if you can still edit your OP on this one to do so).

I always assumed it was related to aftercare and making sure one eats well, rests well, and does not let their sugar levels plummet.



KatyLied -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:48:21 PM)

I've never experienced sub-drop or sub-space and often wonder what it's all about.  Many who complain of suffering from it seem to connect it to high emotions and neglect of after-care.  I wonder if certain personalities are more prone to it.  I've no clue but it's something I've wondered about.



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:50:11 PM)

juliaoceaonia: That is very practical advice. Thank you. I will remember that. I haven't read much about Aftercare - my ex-Dominant and I weren't engaged in what either of us really considered "heavy" activity - but I think this time around may well be different.

KatyLied: Well, I've never had severe "drop" or anything, either - I have had times when I've cried for awhile (but it was usually related to physical, not emotional pain). Although there were a few times it was emotional pain, I guess, now that I think about it. It seemed to last a few hours, at most, though. In general, though - I've just not had the "plummeting" experience some seem to speak of. Maybe I should consider myself lucky (and thank God I am on the right meds, too). 

- Susan



juliaoceania -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:51:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

i have in the past, regularly been on meds. i have not suffered lasting sub drop - i dont believe it exists, but thats another thread.

i would think if youre on your meds theres no problem esp if you havent had it in the past.


My experience with it was not just emotional, but more physical. My legs were sore like I ran a marathon, and I felt out of sorts, but I do not expect to change your mind. No one used to believe depression was a real physical manifestation either, and some thought the mentally ill were demon possessed... so your disbelief is as valid to you as someone that believes that depressed people "should just suck it up" is to them.




obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:53:01 PM)

Ok, read everything and I need more information.  I can chant away for days about sub-drop but I need to know some more details.  Either put them here or write me.



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 9:58:37 PM)

obey1: Like, what details?

I am on the anti-depressant Serzone. I take 600 mg a day (which is like, twice the normal dosage - even for someone with pretty bad depressive tendencies. in fact, it's a dose that might actually land someone in a hospital if they didn't need it).

I've been on it for over 18 years. I've been on and off other anti-depressants since I was 18 (none of which worked as well as Serzone. In fact, Prozac made me almost suicidal, and so did Paxil.) - and I have a completely genetic- bio-chemical depression. "Therapy" and "counselling" just never had any (or a negligent) affect on me.

*I have experienced the most severe kind of depression - and before I reached the age of 22, my "treatment" consisted of vaious anti-depressants and also electric-shock treatments (often considered the "last resort" as far as treating depression). That's how severe my depressions were. 

*My memory just vacated me, it seemed. I had post-it notes all over my house. I almost dropped out of college, because it couldn't remember enough of what I was supposed to be learning, I thought, to be an effective student. But - my dad wouldn't let me quit, and I graduated with honors (after 6 years), and got the highest-paying job in my department in the Buisness College. Anwyay...it was a looong road, learning how to deal with it - and finding an effective medication.

My last major depressive episode (that lasted longer than a couple of weeks) was when I was 24 years old (over 20 years ago).

However, I have periodically gone off my meds, as an "experiment" - to see if I still "really need" them. This experiment has always, always failed, btw. It is stupid, and now I don't try that anymore.

This kind of thing runs in my father's side of the family (where there have been myriad bi-polar, schizophrenic, and depressive folks. My father had a brother who committed suicide, and I've also had other relatives who have committed suicide).

I love Serzone, btw - it has no sexual side-affects (like, it doesn't decrease your sex drive), and also I haven't experienced weight gain with it, or that awful "cotton mouth" some seem to get with some anti-depressants. I consider it a true miracle drug for me.

What else do you need to know?

- Susan



juliaoceania -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:02:45 PM)

quote:

Well, I must admit that if I was bi-polar, I'd be more worried - it is my impression in general that bi-polar depression can be harder to control, but that's just my personal opinion. I was wondering though - if anyone thinks the "level" of bdsm activity has anything to do with feeling what some term as "sub-drop".


I think it is a variable mix of things, seriously. I think that our emotional states are so tightly interwoven with our physical ones it is really hard to say exactly what caused a person to experience this phenomena. I have only had it happen once. He has played with me harder since that occasion. I watch myself for it. I have has slight sub drop the next day, just barely detectable from my normal self, but i am really in tune with my body and my emotional states. I meditate and exercise. I take care of me.

quote:

Still, there have been one or more times in my life since then, when its come up and "bit me", so to speak, when I wasn't really prepared for it - usually when something overwhelming to me was happening in my life. In which case, I just slowed down in general, and increased the meds, and it worked. So maybe that would work if I had a bad reaction to any "scene" with this new Dominant.



You take care of you too. I would not worry about this, so you have sub drop and he helps you deal with it, it only lasts a few days. It is not the end of the world, and knowing what it is makes it a lot more endurable. You know it will go away the way the flu does. It is not a big deal unless you try to deny it or do not understand what it is you are feeling. I was kinda in denial the first time, and I had no idea what was happening to me until my best friend clued me in.



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:17:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

What else do you need to know?



What are the episodes that causes your M/D to suggest that you are being manic?



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:20:10 PM)

I am not manic. I have uni-polar (not bi-polar) depression. That means I have consistent "lows" and never have "highs".

Although, there were one or two doctors along the way, who suggested I might be bi-polar (and one even made me take Lithium for 3 months) - but that turned out to not work, and I am not bi-polar. This doctor made this decision I was bi-polar based on the fact I had over-drawn my checking account by $25.

God save me from incompetent psychiatrists. Psychiatrists (some of them) really do scare me now. I have a pretty good idea, from personal experience, just what a guessing game this treating mental illness can be - and it's not pretty. There are some good doctors out there - and there are also plenty of quacks.

I am not bi-polar (just to clear that up).

- Susan



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:22:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obey1

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

What else do you need to know?



What are the episodes that causes your M/D to suggest that you are being manic?


Susan, M/D here is Master/Dominant, not your MD.



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:26:32 PM)

Oh well. If someone talks very fast, or cannot sleep, or has an unusually high sex drive - or a seemingly driving need to do some activity or other -  and they won't listen to people who might suggest it's a little weird they want to do that thing (like get in their car and drive cross-country in the middle of the night for no apparent reason, for instance), then it might be a sign the person is on a "manic high". Things like that.

Wanton spending of money - shopping sprees that ruin one's credit rating. Things like that can be signs also. In general, it's acting very impulsively - with no thought to the consequences - these can all be signs somone is on a "manic high".

Throughout my twenties, I drank like a fish - that is the only sign I can even think of that would have remotely suggested I was ever manic. And even people who are not bi-polar, but just depressed, do that (it's called "self-medicating"). I did over-draw my checking account by that $25 - but that was just because I was an irresponsible 21 year old - that was the only reason, really.

- Susan



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:31:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Oh well. If someone talks very fast, or cannot sleep, or has an unusually high sex drive - or a seemingly driving need to do some activity or other -  and they won't listen to people who might suggest it's a little weird they want to do that thing (like get in their car and drive cross-country in the middle of the night for no apparent reason, for instance), then it might be a sign the person is on a "manic high". Things like that.

Wanton spending of money - shopping sprees that ruin one's credit rating.


And what is your explanation?



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:35:02 PM)

Well, I never did those things. I was a pretty hard-party animal in my twenties, but some of that was just due to my age, and being in college, I think. Some of it probably was related to being depressed.

And I do think people who do those things (that I mentioned before) are probably (or could be) bi-polar.

But I also think that doctors need to be very careful when diagnosing someone. I had myriad diagnoses - especially when it became apparent my depression was going to be a re-curring thing. It seemed every med I tried would work for awhile, or not at all. This led some doctors to apparently believe there must be something else "wrong" with me.

Actually, it was just that they hadn't found the right medication. Finding the right one took over five years.

What is your view (of bi-polar or depression). Do you have one? I suppose it's very individual (that is my view. I think people are all different).

- Susan 



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:42:59 PM)

What is your aversion to being bi-polar, or 'manic-depressive' over the standard depressive order?  I mean are you resigned to full depression?  (MDD)



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:48:48 PM)

Well, if I was bi-polar, I wouldn't mind it - andymore than what I currently have to deal with, that is. I'd rather not have to deal with any of it, actually. It's the reason I decided never to have kids (I didn't want to pass on these strange genes. Thta is how strongly I felt about it, and a few of my mid-twenties romances broke up due to that).

But after all, if there is a chemical cause, then to my way of thinking, that means there is also probably a chemical "cure" - so bi-polar would be treatable.

But there is no sign that is what I am. I was on Lithium and it affected me not at all, really. I didn't get any better.

I also don't exhibit any signs that I am "manic", ever. I am completly financially responsible, never go on wanton shopping sprees, and don't act-out in impulsive ways. I just get "down" and cry a lot, and stop eating. Stuff like that. Geez- at least if I were manic, it might be more fun, sometimes (devastating consequences aside).

There does seem to be some predjudice against people with bi-polar disorder (I've seen it) - although I am not one of those people (I have a chemical imbalance, too, after all). 

But I never really feel very depressed. Because I stay on my meds. 

- Susan



lilsubl -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:53:45 PM)

ooh!!  ooh!!  i know about this, at least from my own personal experience...i have had clinical depression since i was a small child & contrary to the beliefs of some who haven't experienced depression, i've spent all these years doing whatever i could to NOT be depressed...learning other ways to deal with life's realities & bummers than sinking into the well of depression...i also finally accepted that i needed to be on medication for the brain chemical imbalance for the rest of my life & have been taking meds for about 20 years now...

as for sub-drop, i've not experienced much of it...in fact i recently learned that the more intense the scene the less prone i am to it, the more joy i feel...the more pleasure that i give to the dominant, the more pain that i can take, the more thrilled i am to be there doing what it is that i am doing...therefore, so much less likely to drop...i said in another thread on this subject tonight that the one time that i did experience what others term "sub-drop", it had more to do with the things that were wrong in the relationship than with the scene or my underlying depression or lack of after-care or the color of the sky....

i think you'll be just fine, girl....



catize -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:57:08 PM)

quote:

 
My question is: Is there anyone out there who takes anti-depressants on a regular basis? If so, have you found your experiences with "sub-drop" to be more serious, or lasting, and if so - what did you do about it?

Should I be worried about this? Should I be doing anything about it? I am not sure what to do.

The Dominant I will be visiting knows I take anti-depressants, and I've told him I am religious about taking my meds.

Any helpful comments are appreciated. Thanks. 
 
 

I have had bouts of depression off and on for most of my life.  I sometimes successfully have been able to be off medications for years at a time.  I am aware of my symptoms and when they re-emerge I start taking the medication again..
That being said, sub-drop has never triggered an enduring depressive episode.  I experience sub-drop as a few hours, maybe a day or two of feeling ‘blue’. I might be a bit weepy, might feel out of sorts.  It happened more frequently when I was new to intense play and it seldom happens now.  Besides a need for cuddling, I find it helpful to get involved in a non-BDSM activity like preparing a meal together, taking a walk, watching a movie……..sort of shifting gears to ease down emotionally rather than waiting to ‘drop’. 
I also make sure to eat right, keep myself well hydrated with juice and water and rest more for as long as it takes.
Processing your feelings with your dominant may also be helpful.
(Edited because of repetitious wording)



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 10:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I always assumed it was related to aftercare and making sure one eats well, rests well, and does not let their sugar levels plummet.


Julia, it is me and you again.

Aftercare is a very important part of reaching sub-space.  What are your experiences?  I need to go to the bathroom and recompose.



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 11:01:17 PM)

lilsubl: Well, that is good news! Congrats on dealing with your own depression - I know it can be gard. Sounds like it worked out well for you - it's worked out for me much better than it could have. It is very encouraging to hear some actually have great experiences as far as bdsm, and have no "sub drop". Thanks for writing.

- Susan 



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/8/2007 11:03:26 PM)

catize: Thanks for the response. I am taking all of this in, and I like and appreciate your suggestions. I appear to have a compassionate Dominant, so that is a good thing.

- Susan



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