RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 12:52:20 AM)

obey1: I was never accused of anything by my Dominant (he is my Daddy, not my Master).

I was referring to what you'd asked about as far as what the sypmtoms of bi-polar disorder were - and to how I'd been mis-diasgnosed as having bi-polar disroder by a doctor at one, point - despite the fact I'd never exhibited any bi-polar behavior (save one bounced check, which could happen to anyone).

I think you must have mis-understood what I said - sorry for any confusion.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 12:54:11 AM)

closertonova: I cannot take birth control pills either - they make me practically insane. I use an IUD.

catize: I agree it's great anti-depressants are available. I have a bi-polar friend, and whenever I've gone off my meds, just to "see if I still really need them", she will say to me: "Well, Suzanne (my real name) - why would you make yourself suffer like that, if you don't need to do it?" Which is a very good question...

cariad: Sounds like diabetes can be quite a challenge to deal with too. Congrats on getting a handle on that.  

- Susan



cariad -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 1:22:50 AM)

Thank you susanofO

it has been very difficult and at times i forget to test and when i do i tell my friends so they will know that i need to be reminded every so often.

i have an alarm on the stupid glucometer but can't always hear it beep at me and the volume on it is turned up as loud as i can get it.

i am going to see if i can get a better one soon though and this way i can test properly without worrying the One i hope to be with.

now that being said my diabetes can be out of control every so often but mostly when stressed or sick.



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 2:10:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

obey1: I was never accused of anything by my Daddy...

I was referring to what you'd asked about as far as what the sypmtoms of bi-polar disorder were - and to how I'd been mis-diasgnosed as having bi-polar disroder by a doctor at one, point - despite the fact I'd never exhibited any bi-polar behavior (save one bounced check, which could happen to anyone).



Suzanne,

Now I think I am smoking crack.  Or I am crazy or otherwise.  I thought (and I am going to have to check this) that your original question was asking us.  But there are too many posts about depression, sub-drop, and bipolar disorder to acertain.  I was connecting this thread with the other thread:

bipolar? hmmm i didnt think so? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=816482

Somehow these two threads got crossed in my head or on the computer screen.  My apologies to all.



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 2:13:20 AM)

obey1: Well,no. My original question was whether anyone who took anti-depressants regularly (submissives) had experienced more-than-usual in terms of "sub-drop" - because I take anti-depressants, and although I've not experienced this so far, I haven't really ever been what I'd call a "heavy player" either.

I was concerned about me maybe becoming severly depressed if I ever did play "heavier" - but it sounds like it varies wildly, in terms of personal experience, but - several submissives gave me encouragement because they, too, take anti-depressants, and haven't seemd to have very bad experiences in terms of this happening.

That was my question. But I do appreciate your participation. I got some pretty good feed-back,  but anything you'd like to add, I would of course appreciate. 

- Susan 



obey1 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 2:18:34 AM)

This is the post when mixalicious disappeared from there and then reappeared here:

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=816583



sleazybutterfly -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 3:41:35 AM)

I have had a bit of depression after "dropping" before.  I am not sure I would call it subspace, but it was that big high you get in the middle of a scene when the endorphins are kicking in.  Daddy was totally done already, and I was still way up there.  He stopped very quickly and I was sort of left on my own to come down.  I found myself crying (he didn't know this) and bringing myself back to earth (so to speak).

I think that aftercare is the most important thing in this.  My Daddy is not really much of a sadist most of the time and doesn't really understand the state of mind that pain takes me to.  I know that he would never have left me that way on purpose had he known. 

I think its important for me that a scene follow thru, to allow me enough time to go thru the range of emotions involved, then to fall asleep in his arms makes it almost perfect.

This is almost always how it works with us, but I do notice a difference when it doesn't.




SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 3:53:11 AM)

sleazybutterfly: Thanks for the post. I appreciate your perspective on this.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 3:54:39 AM)

obey1: Well, okay - but I am not mixielicious - hope you believe me (not that there is anything wrong with her - I think she is a sweetie - it's just that I am SusanofO).

- Susan



kyraofMists -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 3:55:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am basically just wondering what others' experiences have been, if they know they suffer from depression, and are taking meds for it, as far as it affecting their "level" of bdsm activity. 


Susan,

In 2000 I was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, Severe.  In 2003 it was so debilitating that I was declared legally disabled in my state.  In 2006 I became medication free and have remained that way.

I have only experienced sub drop once in the two years that I have been playing with my Lord and it was my own inexperience with my mental reaction after play that caused it.  Even so, it was only minor compared to most of the depressive episodes that I have gone through.

In my opinion, it is your own thoughts and emotions about the play that will dictate whether you have problems afterwards.  Play puts me on an endorphine high much like exercising and yet no one talks about "exercise drop" and I haven't seen people use the excuse "well I exercised two days ago and that is why I am an emotional basket case".

Control your thoughts and you will regulate your emotions.  If you think positively and maintain constructive thoughts, then you will most likely not have many problems at all.  Physically, play is just like exercise it is only the mental aspect that separates the two and you can control your thoughts.  It may be hard as hell and seem like a never ending battle, but you can control them.  If a negative thought comes up after play, you change it, undermine it.  At first it may take a lot of work and effort, but eventually it will get easier to do this.  If your thoughts stay positive, it is unlikely that you will have any issues.

Knight's kyra



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 3:57:13 AM)

kyra: I always appreciate your perspective, and especially in this case, becuase you have really "been there" with the severe depression, too. Excellent advice, kyra. Thanks.

- Susan 



sleazybutterfly -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 4:13:09 AM)

I would agree with kyra on this.  My feelings came from feeling abandoned, abused, and things along that line from childhood.  It was my emotional state that caused me to feel "dropped", not the acts themselves.  It took me back to being used by men and just left there, or just being left alone all the time.  I have learned to control that more, and I also know that Daddy really loves me and isn't going anywhere.  When I changed my perspective and fear of this, it helped to control the other parts also.  If he for some reason doesn't hold me after now, I just take myself back to all the times he did and remind myself how much he cares.

I have learned that I control my emotions and how I react to things, I refuse to let them control me anymore. (written, it looks simple, but we all know it wasn't..lots of tears, anger, self-abuse, went into me taking control)



Caitriona -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 4:14:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am basically just wondering what others' experiences have been, if they know they suffer from depression, and are taking meds for it, as far as it affecting their "level" of bdsm activity. 


I've been on antidepressants (Lexapro and now Paxil) for about 7 years now.  Living with depression does not affect my ability/desire to play in a way that upsets my dynamic with My Lord.  I have experienced subspace and subdrop on more than one occasion and never had any long standing issues.

For me it seems that as long as I get the proper aftercare (affection, affirmation, watching my sugar levels) then I am completely fine.   I cannot say what would happen if I did not get that as I have been fortunate enough to not find myself in those circumstances.  I have played casually with others with any problem as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMistsSusan,

Control your thoughts and you will regulate your emotions.  If you think positively and maintain constructive thoughts, then you will most likely not have many problems at all.  Physically, play is just like exercise it is only the mental aspect that separates the two and you can control your thoughts.  It may be hard as hell and seem like a never ending battle, but you can control them.  If a negative thought comes up after play, you change it, undermine it.  At first it may take a lot of work and effort, but eventually it will get easier to do this.  If your thoughts stay positive, it is unlikely that you will have any issues.


This is wonderful advice, kyra!  Thank you so much for sharing!



kyraofMists -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 4:31:58 AM)

It is my pleasure Susan and Caitriona

I can appreciate this concern because it is one that I expressed to my Lord before I became his slave.  He was not worried about it at all.  Like me, he believes that if you control your thoughts you can keep a reign on your emotions.  When my emotions start getting out of whack, the first question he generally asks me is "what are you thinking about?"  The focus then becomes my thoughts and getting them on the right track.  I am required to keep him informed of my thoughts on a daily basis.

My depression for me was chemically induced, but it is similar to the chicken and egg debate.  Chemical imbalances will trigger negative thoughts which then increase the imbalance and it is a negative feedback effect.  Positive thoughts will alter this effect and if you keep tearing down the negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones you will start a positive feedback with your brain chemistry.

Sounds easy but it can be so hard sometimes.  The key is to recognize it early before it gets unmanageable.  During one part of my monthly cycle the chemicals in my body induce negative thoughts.  I know this time is coming and I watch for it.  When it starts, I focus on the thoughts and getting rid of them.  I am not perfect at it but I am getting better.

I am late for work and no time to spell check or proof read....

Have a good day.

Knight's kyra



SusanofO -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 4:42:02 AM)

Catriona: Good to know. Again, I feel reassured this hasn't appeared to bne a big problem for many. Thnaks for the thoughts and sharing.

sleazybutterfly: Well, congratulations on coming to terms with what sounds like a really rough childhood. I was not an abused child - at all. My depression just sort of came on suddenly when I was away at college during my freshman year - and it completely freaked me out! I lost over 20 pounds without trying, and cried all the time. It was a total night-mare, and completely unexpected. And it was 7 more years before I finally felt I had it under some control. 

kyra: I do really appreciate your thoughts about all this.

- Susan



SweetSarijane -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 6:10:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


My depression for me was chemically induced, but it is similar to the chicken and egg debate.  Chemical imbalances will trigger negative thoughts which then increase the imbalance and it is a negative feedback effect.  Positive thoughts will alter this effect and if you keep tearing down the negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones you will start a positive feedback with your brain chemistry.



Mine is also a chemical imbalance and I have found also that tearing down the negative and replacing it with positive and just trying to always focus on the positive rather than the negative really does make a huge difference to the good for me. Doing that and taking my meds are what keep me functioning well.



petdave -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 6:43:36 AM)

i used to experience sub drop pretty consistently, and sometimes to a very nasty extent. Since i've started taking antidepressants (Effexor, and lots of it), i've actually found that it doesn't happen nearly as often, and when it does, it isn't as severe.

Best wishes,

...dave



Celeste43 -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 7:08:57 AM)

Aftercare is required but just as important is beforecare and planning. Make sure you are fully hydrated and have been eating properly. Don't play when you're tired. Bring water, juice, fruit, cheese and crackers. Milk chocolate. Take breaks to drink and eat and nap. Pack a lunch box or a small cooler if there's no fridge. Fruit, cheese cubes, crackers, juice boxes, chocolate, water bars.

You are right to be concerned. The body and brain chemistry we play with is pretty involved. Blood sugar, hydration, endorphin, adrenaline, serotonin - all of these can be negatively impacted by play. I'm sure you know as a mood disorder sufferer how important it is to pay attention to your body. If you don't sleep, your mood suffers, just as it will from alcohol, fatty foods only, no sunshine, no exercise, dehydration. The same thing applies here, take time to check in with your body. Are you hungry, stop and eat. Lonely. stop play for talk and cuddles. Angry, address the problem immediately because anger turns into depression in females. Tired, stop for rest and a nap.

But just because he is accustomed to heavy play does not mean that you will be subject to all of that first thing. Nor should you be. I am a great believer in starting things slowly so he can learn your reactions and so can you. And if he starts right in with things without slowly bringing you to that level you won't be able to handle it. Those of us with mood disorders must be able to stop play if necessary simply because picking up the pieces afterwards could concievably involve being checked into the nearest psych ward.

The worst subdrop of my life happened when we ate dinner early, played all of the evening, most of the night and through the next morning. No sleep, no snacks, no water - no intelligence used. He was as worn out as I was despite the fact that we both enjoyed it thoroughly. We had to part and spent the afternoon on and off the phone, both of us weepy. These days we don't play longer than four hours straight. Then naps and food, and we always have bottles of water nearby. And then we start back in.



cloudboy -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 7:09:09 AM)

quote:

Sounds easy


Not to me.



cjenny -> RE: Does "sub-drop" affect those with depression differently? (2/9/2007 7:30:16 AM)

Susan [:)]
Yes I take anti depressants & yes I do have problems with sub drop. HOWEVER I am pretty sure that is because I only meet with my Dom 4 times a year and I drop my meds the week before. I drop them because of the sexual side effect * I am going to ask my doc about serzone tyty*.
It is weird that there is such a stigma against medication, not every thing is mind over matter. It always offends me, and often hurts my feelings to be told that because I take meds I am lesser or weak.

There was a thread somewhere that asked what meds folks take and why they take them, it was really interesting to see the anti-med reaction. Eeep I am rambling.
Take care Susan.



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