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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/11/2007 8:55:13 PM   
SimplyMichael


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I don't know why LA isn't in here focusing this thread.

I don't think she was talking about people breaking rules, leaving puddles, or violating people's personal space.   I know I sure as heck wasn't.

You do a fisting or serious G spot play and get a woman to ejaculate and you have a great big mess and yet people don't whine and bitch about that.  I felt she wanted to explore why GIVEN EQUAL CIRCUMSTANCES  there seems to be a double standard that about the issue when it involves men.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/11/2007 10:11:13 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

You do a fisting or serious G spot play and get a woman to ejaculate and you have a great big mess and yet people don't whine and bitch about that


Actually my understanding is that at the Lair penetration is forbidden (mainly due to the law). So yes some people might gripe about that.

quote:

I felt she wanted to explore why GIVEN EQUAL CIRCUMSTANCES  there seems to be a double standard that about the issue when it involves men.



I guess I have a double standard. I will say I do not think there is anything wrong with men masturbating during their own scene or privately. I do think it is kinda creepy to stand in a ring around a couple scening and nonconsensually beat off while the couple are doing their thing.. it is kinda intrusive.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/11/2007 10:14:59 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

   I do think it is kinda creepy to stand in a ring around a couple scening and nonconsensually beat off while the couple are doing their thing.. it is kinda intrusive.


I agree with you , but then again that isn't what I or LA are talking about but that seems to be par for the course for this thread.


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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/11/2007 10:34:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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It is the first thing that comes to mind Michael. Perhaps it is a deepseated fear for some of us in regard to men? Perhaps that colors our perceptions? Lets face it, when people are allowed to behave a certain way, some people will push that behavior to the limit because they are just assholes with no concept of personal space...lol

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 1:48:22 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I don't know why LA isn't in here focusing this thread.

I don't think she was talking about people breaking rules, leaving puddles, or violating people's personal space.   I know I sure as heck wasn't.

You do a fisting or serious G spot play and get a woman to ejaculate and you have a great big mess and yet people don't whine and bitch about that.  I felt she wanted to explore why GIVEN EQUAL CIRCUMSTANCES  there seems to be a double standard that about the issue when it involves men.



i know i will be sorry for responding but.....

LA asked "why" which, i think, opens the thread up to people's opinions, not just opinions which agree with Yours.  She wasn't even talking about body fluid expelled in the scene space between the consenting participants.  i would be interested in hearing from a Dungeon Master as to why they impose a body-fluid restriction in their clubs.  It could very well be a rule that would help defray interest by local law authority... just my guess but i, of course am inadequate that i don't live in a sexually progressive region of the US.

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 2/12/2007 2:35:00 AM >


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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 6:12:33 AM   
aSlavesLife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

If one goes to a heavy BDSM club, do they not expect people to become aroused?


I do not expect people not to get aroused anywhere... even the beach with bikini clad girls.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

quote:

And have these people not already consented in essence by choosing to go there?


People being aroused is no excuse to be dishonor yourself by not following the rules of behavior that you have agreed to.

Arousal is against the rules? What kind of prudish club do you belong to, the Quaker Spankers?

quote:

If you see something that you don't approve of, you walk away. You don't whine about it being against your consent, otherwise some puritanical twit could waltz into any fetish event, exclaim their displeasure at the behavior there, and force everyone to put away their toys


No, if I go into a situation with the agreement that no one will watch me and beat their meat, I will ask the DM to remove them for not following the rules they agreed to before they went into a club.

So it is fine for you to get your rocks off by being flogged, but how dare someone else enjoy it, gotcha! I'll try to make it to some of the clubs you attend, then tell the DM how offended I am by everything that is going on.

quote:

Give me a break! I hate watching people make out in public, but I don't run to the nearest police officer and demand that they be forced to stop because I didn't consent to seeing it. I direct my attention elsewhere instead of trying to force feed my morals to other people.


I would go to a police officer if people were having sex and beating off in front of me. I see no difference. No one is forcing you or anyone else to agree to the rules of a club when you enter their doors, you agree not to shoot your body fluids all over, then live up to that agreement. We are not animals without self control. Most places have private areas for people to have an orgasm.


I have seen women orgasm at a dungeon before. Come to think of it, I saw at least one guy sneeze as well. The club is private, requiring membership, and everyone there were adults. Adults do become aroused when engaged in activities that tweak their kink buttons. Or are you someone that takes a cane to the ass just for aesthetic reasons?

I am not saying that everyone should be spanking their monkey every time someone cracks a whip, but if you are so uptight as to get offended that someone should actually become aroused while observing an erotic event, you really need to think about staying home. And while you are leaving the dungeon, try not to touch the spanking bench, because you can bet your last dollar that some woman oozed her happy juice on it as she orgasmed while being spanked.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 6:31:55 AM   
slaveboy0023


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That's not a weird preference.  Men are more sloppy.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 6:34:25 AM   
slaveboy0023


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and their cum is more gooey!

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 7:10:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


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eyesopened,

Why on earth would you regret responding?  This thread has been quite civil.

I hate DMs and don't have them at any event I throw but I can speak as someone who has owned a public play space and hosted parties.  By banning fluid exchange, you can ban most sexual acts involving men. 

At least in California it has zero to do with law enforcement.

As for opinions, I wasn't trying to say which opinions were valid just trying to keep the discussion on apples, not oranges.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 8:24:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Well thanks again for all the great responses!  I'd have gotten more involved sooner, but you all seemed to be making great points already and keeping it going more than well enough for me to need to stick in.

I do have a few points after all this great discussion:

1)  I was purposefully limiting my discussion the act of masturbation alone.  While I understand that fluids can be related to masturbating, and should be considered in the equation of allowing it or not, or how to allow it publicly, I was keeping it separate from masturbation in this context- pure preferenct/reaction to the act of masturbation in itself.

2)  I was not discussing rules or following/not following of rules in a club.  Obviously if it's a rule, it's a rule, and if it's not a rule, it's not a rule.  Not following rules at a club is not cool- no matter what the rule is.  My discussion was more on WHY people have the perceptions and create the seemingly irrational rules that they do.

3)  I can completely respect someone who says "I have no idea why/This is a personal weird quirk of mine/I know it's irrational but..."  It shows ownership of one's own perspectives and issues withOUT suggesting that others are doing something wrong or that others should somehow change what they do to accommodate how one person feels.

4)  When I mentioned "stand next to" I was assuming the polite distance expected at most clubs from scenes- usually at least 4 feet.  Intruding on scene space when not invited is never cool, no matter what you're doing.

5)  Context is everything.  I personally find it hard to swallow that there is a suggestion that someone is doing something non-consensual at a party where the rules do not forbid the action.  If it's not against the rules, then you consent when you enter that party that you MAY see this going on.  It's no less consensual than the person getting up naked on the cross in front of your table.  You entered the party, thus accepting that this MAY happen in front of you and cannot cry "non consent!"

6)  It doesn't matter what you personally want or intend to have happen at a public party.  Public space means that we all need to play nice together, it means you won't always have exactly the energy that you want going on, or be able to control your environment to the extent you would want.  That doesn't make the other person bad or wrong and it certainly doesn't mean they've done anything inappropriate.  We already have accepted expectations of "scene space" and I think this handles what needs to be handled.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 8:31:20 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Here's a question, since we all worship "old guard" I am curious how gay men clubs deal with this issue. 

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 10:24:41 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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the differnce is women most the time are on a  imobile surface that can easily be wiped down, men walking around leaving droplets everywhere are not so easy to find the spots and clean up.
quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife


As for ' leaving puddles '... women do this too, especially while naked.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 10:29:30 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I am not saying that everyone should be spanking their monkey every time someone cracks a whip, but if you are so uptight as to get offended that someone should actually become aroused while observing an erotic event, you really need to think about staying home. And while you are leaving the dungeon, try not to touch the spanking bench, because you can bet your last dollar that some woman oozed her happy juice on it as she orgasmed while being spanked.



I never addressed the fluid issue, so why are you bringing it up in relation to my post to you? It is a non sequitur.

I am of the opinion that people who want to do certain things should go places where these things are acceptable. There are many things I do not wish to be around in this world. If everyone wanted to do scat play around me, I would not want to be around that either. If everyone wanted to do golden showers, well I would pass on that too. If people who like that wanted to have a party or open a club that had these behaviors as a part of the fun,  Go Them! I will not be attending.

If you want to go places where people can randomly masturbate and it is seen as acceptable, well Go You! You are the one telling me my limits are not acceptable, you are the one telling me my sexuality is not ok, I never once said that you should not be allowed to go into a club and play with yourself. I simply said that if the privately held club has rules against it, well those are the rules, like it or lump it. If that is not acceptable to you, go somewhere that allows you to do your thang. People should have a right to consensually do their thang with others that have consented to being around it... pure and simple logic, if they allowed masturbation and my Daddy did not like the idea of a circle jerk around our scene, well we just wouldn't go to that club.. no big deal! As long as the rules are spelled out, then everyone there consented to them... the key is consent.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 11:38:53 AM   
Devilslilsister


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My personal reaction to seeing a man masterbate while i was in a scene would probably stop me dead. It wouldnt be cool and depending on my headspace i'm liable to have a fit or just completely shut down.  Its the whole usuage/man thing.  Granted while i have gotten better and made great strides on how i deal with men and sex, it still screws with me.  i have been used nonconsenually and consensually and it always bothers me.  i'm NOT a piece of fucking meat.  I am a PERSON.  Look at me, see me - i am more then just a body.  

Granted most of it comes from my teenager years where i was only seen as a great fuck.  The distance men would go to try and get in my pants.  The non consensual distances they would go.  Its a personal issue i've been getting over for some time and and as i've aged, i've even learned to turn it into my advantage.  Yet, its still inside of me and if i dont mind myself - it can mess with me. 

So i wonder if my own feelings might be small reason why most would not like it.  In general, men have this stereo type placed on them when it comes to sex.  This negativity about men and thier pushiness with their cocks.  While generally, women do not have this stereo type placed on them.  IE you hear more about women being raped, molested, assulted by men then you do by women.  (even though it offenders are of either gender)

Granted i do feel almost the same when it comes to women.  Except i would probably look away in embarressment for them.  It would bother me for easier, more managable reasons. 

Plus, men get carried away (my generalizing is wrong, i know) and eventually you'll have a man who walks up and drops his load on some one in a scene. 


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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 1:50:27 PM   
GuidingLite


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My friends and me always agreed on this that maybe things would be different in a different world, but we don't think men should ever masturbate in a public place. It has nothing to do with aesthetics, but that the penis is rightfully perceived as a potential weapon and a woman's vagina isn't.  So, when a man masturbates in public, women who see him may feel offended or sexually threatened (because the boundary-crossing public sexuality hints at rape) and men who see him are at most disinterested. When a woman wanks in public, women who see her are likely not offended or threatened, and men who see her are likely enthralled.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 2:52:06 PM   
daddysprop247


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

My friends and me always agreed on this that maybe things would be different in a different world, but we don't think men should ever masturbate in a public place. It has nothing to do with aesthetics, but that the penis is rightfully perceived as a potential weapon and a woman's vagina isn't.  So, when a man masturbates in public, women who see him may feel offended or sexually threatened (because the boundary-crossing public sexuality hints at rape) and men who see him are at most disinterested. When a woman wanks in public, women who see her are likely not offended or threatened, and men who see her are likely enthralled.



actually i couldn't disagree with the above more, although it may be a more typical viewpoint. as a straight woman, if i saw another female masturbating in any public place...i don't care if it was a live sex show...i would be revolted. first, there's the aesthetic issue that i just find female genitalia unattractive in general, and then there's the germ freak in me who knows that given our sexual anatomy, unique hormones, etc., a female's private area if you will is likely to be far less clean than a male's.

there is also the issue that a couple of others have mentioned that a nude woman, sexually aroused or not, is leaking far more "fluids" than some guy with his weiner out. when i go out to a club or even a private party and see naked women sitting down on the furniture and such, i log it in my memory so that i know not to touch that area. i do not do the same when it comes to naked men. i find them far less messy, not at all gross, and the mess they do make doesn't bother me. whereas if i see a smear of something some woman left behind on a seat or something, i have to struggle not to lose my lunch. even with the fluid issue aside, the mechanics of female masturbation just seem far more unclean to me than that of male masturbation. the penis after all is already "out there." it's covered in smooth skin, really not much more threatening to me than an arm or leg. He's stroking skin, fairly sanitary in my view. however in order for a female to masturbate, chances are she will have to have some manual contact with her genitals, which for the most part are interior. she's not simply stroking skin, she's dipping her fingers in orifices. for me this is as disgusting as seeing someone pick their nose. 

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 2:59:42 PM   
LaTigresse


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How interesting all the different points of view. I guess no matter what the situation if you have a group of people someone is going to be offended.

Myself, the last thing in the world I want to see is some guy playing with himself. I would lose all interest in whatever it was I was doing and might even vacate the vacinity. However I see that as MY issue. If I know I am going to a place that it is accepted for anyone do behave in that manner then I also accept the reality that it probably will happen. The few group situations I have been in it was not acceptable by those running it so it was a non-issue.

Okay, I actually started imagining what I would feel if I did have that experience and I have come to the conclusion that knowing myself as I do, I would end up laughing, just because watching men in the throws (I SO cannot be sure I am spelling that correctly) of sexual passion, the look on their faces and so forth.........I find very humorous actually.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 2/12/2007 3:06:28 PM >


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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 3:00:37 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

chances are she will have to have some manual contact with her genitals, which for the most part are interior. she's not simply stroking skin, she's dipping her fingers in orifices. for me this is as disgusting as seeing someone pick their nose


I am guessing you have not seen many women masturbate? Not all of us have to probe inside of ourselves to achieve an orgasm. It might be a nice feeling, and some of us can orgasm with vaginal penetration, but the primary sex gland/spot/organ is the clitoris which is on the outside  of the female genitalia. Also, not all women make puddles, I do not leak everywhere all the time. I sometimes am more juicy than others, but I do not gush like a geyser when I orgasm, and I doubt highly that I am unusual in this.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 3:06:03 PM   
daddysprop247


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

chances are she will have to have some manual contact with her genitals, which for the most part are interior. she's not simply stroking skin, she's dipping her fingers in orifices. for me this is as disgusting as seeing someone pick their nose


I am guessing you have not seen many women masturbate? Not all of us have to probe inside of ourselves to achieve an orgasm. It might be a nice feeling, and some of us can orgasm with vaginal penetration, but the primary sex gland/spot/organ is the clitoris which is on the outside  of the female genitalia. Also, not all women make puddles, I do not leak everywhere all the time. I sometimes am more juicy than others, but I do not gush like a geyser when I orgasm, and I doubt highly that I am unusual in this.


actually, i wasn't simply referring to the vaginal canal when i said "interior." to me, touching the clitoris would also count as "interior" as it's an area normally covered by flesh...still picking a nose, as far as i'm concerned.

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RE: Masturbating & Public Play - 2/12/2007 3:12:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
just because watching men in the throws (I SO cannot be sure I am spelling that correctly) of sexual passion, the look on their faces and so forth.........I find very humorous actually.


Throes :)

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