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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/15/2007 7:29:02 PM   
Zsuzsanna


Posts: 108
Joined: 12/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flaylingslave

i will admit to being a slave who battles with depression.  In an attempt to open up and reveal my current emotional status (yes, i was acting like a child...but i was also dealing with emotions that stemmed from childhood and attempting to fight those as well) i sat crying and emotionally vulnerable in front of my Master...and He laughed at me!  i think a deep D/s relationship is the ability to trust, respect, and communicate...to do that you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable.  So...my question is...how would you get over something like that? i can already see everyone screaming i need to communicate this with Him, which i did...but i'm not sure He understands the depth at which this hurt me.  Everything inside me is screaming to quickly set up walls so something like that can never happen again.  From other submissives points of views...any ideas or suggestions on how to get past this and allow oneself to be vulnerable without fear of being One's entertainment or laughingstock?


...I'm not sure I could get over that.  I would never be able to really open up to him agan.  

_____________________________

"Somewhere Ralphie smiles and says enjoy her every cry." Tori Amos

(in reply to flaylingslave)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/15/2007 8:39:52 PM   
curiouspet55


Posts: 133
Joined: 10/13/2006
From: Indiana
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I can understand where you are coming from. I rarely cry, and the very few times I have it has been due to frustration over not understanding something in school, not outright sobbing. When I break down, it is a huge loss of control for me, and I need to trust that my Dom understands this and loves me, and were he to laugh I would clam up and things would all get messed up since I wouldn't trust him with my emotions. I can only say I'm sorry, and suggest talking to him.

_____________________________

Question everything, try anything, do something.

(in reply to BabyNyla)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 1:14:28 AM   
julietsierra


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Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

i think i might have been traumatized by such an occurrence.  Why?  Because although i am an empath and cry much easier over other's pain, i very, very, very rarely cry over my own.  And when i do, i would not expect laughter as a response.
 
For example, i cried (a lot) when my father passed away.  If i ever had a partner who laughed at that, i would just be beside myself. 
 
i have been laughed at for crying during sad movies or cartoons even, and that is different.  But if something was really an emotional issue for me, and i felt vulnerable because of it, laughing at it would just be soooo uncool.  Hope i never experience that
 
Sorry it happened to you.
 
Daddysgirl


First of all, there is a significant difference between crying over the loss of a father and crying because of something that has occurred, you've dealt with and need to decide to move on from. I'm not being glib here. I understand how difficult it is to move on from some things. However, people do have choices - to live in their past or move toward their future. The choice is theirs to make.

Secondly, expectations of other people's behaviors when they just might see a bigger picture and find humor in it is... well... kinda like trying to be in control of the other person. It's up to each of us how we choose to react to laughter. We can be all angry and hurt and all that - or we can choose to find the humor and laugh along.

The next time you're listening to a comedian, just take the laughter out and consider what they're actually talking about. Most of the time, it's about hard times, lost loves, bad family experiences, etc. They are simply choosing to find humor in the difficult times in their lives rather than letting those hard times so rule their lives that they no longer find the humor.

Someone who can take my fears, my tears and my insecurities and turn them around to be things to laugh about gets my respect and my love. (and by the way, if my Master were to laugh at the loss of someone I loved, I'd be heartbroken too - not to mention, probably homocidal).

juliet


(in reply to adaddysgirl)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 1:38:27 AM   
dirtyfemm


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flaying: best to communicate in a way that is under control as possible. I know it is hard to do.

Have you considered he may enjoy humiliating you? ! So what if he laughs? Buck up, you can do it.

I mean this in a kind way. This life, this "game" isn't easy,

(in reply to flaylingslave)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 2:41:34 AM   
MistressFeathers


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If the guy knows that you have emotional struggles of a serious nature & that the emotions/struggle had overwhelmed you at that moment and he laughed it could have been for a number of reasons:
1. He is an insensitive cad.  Leave him he'll never improve.
2. He simply didn't know how to react. Talk to him, give him another chance.
3. That's his automatic response to any show of emotions - some people are just nervous of certain things & laugh when they really shouldn't.  Think how boring outtake/video shows would be for the masses if people didn't do stupid things/hurt themselves while being taped.
4. He was trying to coax you out of your 'funk' by laughing.  This however was misjudged & should never be one of his tactics again.

If he was unaware of the reason why you would be crying and the serious undercurrents to your emotional state, I do not really think that you are being fair to him.  Men on the whole are not mind readers and many are crap at emotional stuff.

You need to talk to him.  Take your time. Be honest, but not over heavy/dramatic with it.
As with most things communication IS the key.

(in reply to dirtyfemm)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 5:35:13 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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I'm disturbed
I just started reading this thread and I'm disturbed.  Yes, you are right a deep D/s relationship is the ability to trust, respect and communicate.  There are countless posts on the message board concerning trust, respect and communication.  There is play time where respect appears to be tossed aside, but there are limits.  Respectful humilation is what I call it.  Where limits are respected, however are tested on occasion.

Safewords
From my experience when I have crossed a limit, be it intentionally or not. I stop what I am doing and focus on my sub/partners emotional state of mind. I do so with geniune loving concern.   I know I have crossed the line when the safeword is used! "Safewords" should be applied to mental as well as physical limits.  They should be used in any situation which becomes overwhelming for a sub/slave to deal with.  This clearly lets your Master know, Timeout! "Stop what the fuck you are doing to me!".

Letters
I would recommend you communicate with your Master by writting him a letter.  A letter allows you to express yourself without interuption or distraction.  It will also help you sort out your thoughts and feelings. (Some people use Journals to do this).  There are other good reasons why you should write a letter, which I will not go into.  People tend to overlook the use of letters in their 24/7 relationships and rely only on verbal communication. This is a shame.   

Dacrophilia
Some Doms get aroused from seeing a sub/slave break down and cry! Yes, they are sexually aroused by tears! You might want to ask your Master if he finds pleasure in this activity.  Dacrophilia may or may not be on his fetish list.  If it is, this should have been out in the open before now.

All Else Fails
If your master still does not get it... you can always find a new master.  The alternative is to stay in the relationship and have your mental limits violated over and over again, your depression spirals out of control and you are on the brink of suicide!

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 2/16/2007 5:57:10 PM >

(in reply to viperess)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 5:49:19 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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Good Luck

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 2/16/2007 5:50:07 PM >

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 8:41:55 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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If a partner of mine ever felt they needed to safeword due to some emotionally issue, I'd pretty much throw in the towel as a dom.  Or I'd kick myself in the head for having a partner who was such a dolt.

You don't safeword out of communication and communication problems.  YOu can take a time out to sort through feelings, but you don't just end it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 11:19:14 PM   
VeryPrivateMstr


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The idea of having safewords for communications is as bizzare as having a safeword to cyber online.

What is the world comming to?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/16/2007 11:27:27 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryPrivateMstr

The idea of having safewords for communications is as bizzare as having a safeword to cyber online.

What is the world comming to?


For some people it is more painful to be emotionally hurt than physically so.  When one is a submissive they are often not free to speak their minds whenever they like, for some it could be a mechanism for them to alert their dom that he is crossing a communication boundary that is causing distress.

I would say that a few ill considered words could crush me from my Daddy, although he considers his words very carefully to me. I also have the type of dynamic where I can outright say how I feel without it being seen as disrespectful, not everyone has this sort of dynamic, nor should they if it does not suit them.

I think where rules are fairly rigid, expectations high, then it seems like a fairly good concept to me to have a verbal safeword... especially if that is the only way a submissive could communicate that something was emotionally wrong, but did not have the words to communicate what exactly the trouble was.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to VeryPrivateMstr)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 8:09:53 AM   
julietsierra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

The alternative is to stay in the relationship and have your mental limits violated over and over again, your depression spirals out of control and you are on the brink of suicide!


Oh for crying out loud! Suicide because someone laughed? I'd say if that's the choice then someone needs something a bit more significant than to just have someone else not laugh - like therapy!

Personally, this is what makes me so damn grateful I have someone like my Master. All this fawning is precisely what I was hoping to avoid when finding someone. You're supposed to be the darn Master. You mean if you find something humorous, you can't laugh? I'm wondering just who is in control.

Hmmm... for that matter, I'm the submissive and I can laugh at what I find humorous - even if it's darkly and sarcastically humorous. Laughing doesn't mean I care for him less or anything like that. It doesn't mean he cares for me less when he does it. It just means that for some reason, what was said somehow struck us as humorous. If either of us are hurt by the laughter, we share the hurt. It's called a RELATIONSHIP for crying out loud.

And for us, he's in charge - including over his own laughter. I get to be in charge of my own emotions. We're strange, I know. The thought that I can be responsible for my own feelings is really really odd. The fact that I can CHOOSE to be upset or not is even stranger. The fact that I choose not to be ... well... it's just common sense - at least for me.

juliet

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 8:51:53 AM   
gypsygrl


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From: new york state
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In general, I agree that there's nothing wrong with having some way to move into an emotionally/psychologically neutral area.  A safe word could provide this.

A large part of what we do involves mindfucks, that is, intentionally messing with another's head.  If it weren't consensual, it'd be considered a form of emotional abuse.  I think most people involved with this stuff are sophisticated enough to understand that it doesn't take a flogger or some other implement to cause another person pain and some of us pursue that kind of pain, myself included.  It can be very de-stabilizing and I think it makes sense to have a way of calling a time out such as the use of safe words provides.  There are probably other ways to move into emotionally neutral space.

Also, and to respond to julietsierra, if a Master gets off at laughing at someone, power to him.  Of course, he would probably do well to find a partner who can tolerate that kind of humiliation and even desires it.  In my opinion, at least, it would probably be questionable to do blood play with a hemophiliac or even somone who just took a bunch of aspirin or high impact paddling with someone who has brittle bone disease.  Similarly, it does seem problamtic to play with the emotions of emotionally vulnerable people.


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 8:56:44 AM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

If a partner of mine ever felt they needed to safeword due to some emotionally issue, I'd pretty much throw in the towel as a dom.  Or I'd kick myself in the head for having a partner who was such a dolt.

You don't safeword out of communication and communication problems.  YOu can take a time out to sort through feelings, but you don't just end it.


Thank you for pointing out my lack of clarity on this matter.  The manner in which am speaking to use the safeword, is to actually engage one-on-one communication mode, under certain circumstances.  Not to kill communication...

In the case of Dacrophilia, some master get caught up in trying to make a slave cry! Be it from mental or physical pain!  They are not really communicating with the slave, they are just verbally exerting pain to make the slave cry!  Verbal Words being used just like a whip!   If these types of  fetishs, then there needs to be a safe word in place....  So that the activity stops, and a the DOM checks on the state of the sub/slave and for the door to communication to open.  At least this is my perspective.

Some people might be screaming "Oh for crying out loud! Suicide because someone laughed?".  Actually a person can take another person and mentally break them down and ride them to the point of suicide.  If the slave is already prone to depression and problems such as depression, then this is something any responsible DOM/Domme should take into consideration! Depression may be the signs of another medical condition occuring.  Depression can lead down the path of suicide!

In the very opening of her post ....
quote:


i will admit to being a slave who battles with depression. 


She did not communicate, that she is feeling depressed! She stated she BATTLES with depression. 
"Oh for crying out loud! Suicide because someone laughed?".  I think somebody is missing the point and finer aspects to battling with depression..



< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 2/17/2007 9:02:50 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 9:54:51 AM   
beltainefaerie


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Some people disparage the safeword as if it is something that means "cease, desist, we end whatever is going on and don't go back to it" or that it takes the place of clear direct communication.  That isn't the way I have ever used them.  They are for times we need to talk and one of us cannot properly communicate while whatever it is, is going on. 

Still, for a conversation, it seems that there wouldn't be any need for a signale.  Direct communication, as in, "what on earth is your laughter about?!"  would be more apropos.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 10:21:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Whiplash:  Thanks for the clarification.  Yes, sometimes pausing a conversation for a night or awhile is exactly the right thing to do and it makes perfect sense for either the slave or the master to communicate that they feel this period is needed.

Beltaine:  Yes, it would.  Unfortunately, most adults are horrible at open and honest direct communication and have to be taught how to do so over time.  Subs especially can feel limited in this direction by irrationally feeling it somehow takes away from their submission to communicate something that might upset their dom.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 3:09:25 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

The alternative is to stay in the relationship and have your mental limits violated over and over again, your depression spirals out of control and you are on the brink of suicide!


Oh for crying out loud! Suicide because someone laughed? I'd say if that's the choice then someone needs something a bit more significant than to just have someone else not laugh - like therapy!

Personally, this is what makes me so damn grateful I have someone like my Master. All this fawning is precisely what I was hoping to avoid when finding someone. You're supposed to be the darn Master. You mean if you find something humorous, you can't laugh? I'm wondering just who is in control.

Hmmm... for that matter, I'm the submissive and I can laugh at what I find humorous - even if it's darkly and sarcastically humorous. Laughing doesn't mean I care for him less or anything like that. It doesn't mean he cares for me less when he does it. It just means that for some reason, what was said somehow struck us as humorous. If either of us are hurt by the laughter, we share the hurt. It's called a RELATIONSHIP for crying out loud.

And for us, he's in charge - including over his own laughter. I get to be in charge of my own emotions. We're strange, I know. The thought that I can be responsible for my own feelings is really really odd. The fact that I can CHOOSE to be upset or not is even stranger. The fact that I choose not to be ... well... it's just common sense - at least for me.

juliet

....whew! saved me from having to find the right words to express my exact thoughts on the matter....good post Juliet! and Thank You...Tempting

(in reply to julietsierra)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 5:03:54 PM   
Celeste43


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Juliet, emotional sadism works for you, it wouldn't work for me and apparently it doesn't work for the op. Since what he wants from me is emotional transparency, I would see humiliating me for opening up to him as setting me up to fail and the result of that would be a huge wall between us. I can only be emotionally vulnerable to someone I feel it is safe to be so with.  If he made it unsafe for me to open up, then he would not get what he said he wants, my openness.

But I'm not a masochist, neither physical nor emotional and I believe that may be part of the difference in viewpoints.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 7:05:40 PM   
czarlipet


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Have your dominant read this message board with you and then discuss. That might be a way to get the communication flowing the way you need it to. Otherwise, you have a decision to make about what you are willing to accept in a relationship and what you are not.
Czarli

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 7:59:22 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Juliet, emotional sadism works for you, it wouldn't work for me and apparently it doesn't work for the op. Since what he wants from me is emotional transparency, I would see humiliating me for opening up to him as setting me up to fail and the result of that would be a huge wall between us. I can only be emotionally vulnerable to someone I feel it is safe to be so with.  If he made it unsafe for me to open up, then he would not get what he said he wants, my openness.

But I'm not a masochist, neither physical nor emotional and I believe that may be part of the difference in viewpoints.


I wasn't lambasting the OP. I actually understand her point of view. That's why my first post suggested approaching the laughter from a different point of view.

I was however, lambasting Whiplash's slippery slope of battling depression to suicide over some laughter.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 2/17/2007 8:01:28 PM >

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: being laughed at by your Master - 2/17/2007 8:41:09 PM   
adaddysgirl


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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

First of all, there is a significant difference between crying over the loss of a father and crying because of something that has occurred, you've dealt with and need to decide to move on from. I'm not being glib here. I understand how difficult it is to move on from some things. However, people do have choices - to live in their past or move toward their future. The choice is theirs to make.

The OP said 'In an attempt to open up and reveal my current emotional status,  i sat crying and emotionally vulnerable in front of my Master....'
 
i used by father's death to relate that same state of emotional vulnerability.  The OP obviously has issues that she has not 'moved on from' and she was opening up to her Master about this.  Sometimes such easy choices as you see are not so easy to make when emotions are involved.  And i thought a Master is there to try his best to help his sub through such issues.  If they are beyond his comfort zone...or something he feels he just can't deal with....then perhaps that should be explained to her. 

Secondly, expectations of other people's behaviors when they just might see a bigger picture and find humor in it is... well... kinda like trying to be in control of the other person. It's up to each of us how we choose to react to laughter. We can be all angry and hurt and all that - or we can choose to find the humor and laugh along.

Again, when deep emotions and vulnerability are involved, i guess some people just can't 'laugh at themselves'.  i personally do not appreciate humor nor laughter when i feel like i am opening up to someone on such a level....just as i would not laugh at someone opening up to me on that level as well. 
 
i remember when i worked with the mentally ill.  So many of them had emotional scars from the past that would just cause them to break down whenever such events were recalled.  Should i have just bust out laughing with the hopes that perhaps they would see some humor too?  Instead, i tried to understand where they were coming from and believe it or not, i actually felt compassion for them.  They did not want to be depressed....nor did they enjoy that loss of control.  They had not been able to yet move beyond some things.  i saw no humor in that.
 
And i really don't see this as a matter of control over another person.  We all have some expectations of those we are involved with.  To expect respect of those expectations seems only normal to me.

The next time you're listening to a comedian, just take the laughter out and consider what they're actually talking about. Most of the time, it's about hard times, lost loves, bad family experiences, etc. They are simply choosing to find humor in the difficult times in their lives rather than letting those hard times so rule their lives that they no longer find the humor.

i have later laughed about a lot of things that seemed crucial when they happened but i assure you, they did not seem funny at the time, and if they caused me enough grief to cry over later, i am obviously not seeing any humor in the situation.  Some hard times do seem funny in retrospect....and some just never will.  It's probably important for someone who's dealing with you to know the difference.

Someone who can take my fears, my tears and my insecurities and turn them around to be things to laugh about gets my respect and my love. (and by the way, if my Master were to laugh at the loss of someone I loved, I'd be heartbroken too - not to mention, probably homocidal).

But i can appreciate that some peoples fears and tears mean as much to them as something like my father's death meant to me.  Who am i to judge how deeply things affect people or how quickly they should get over something they felt was traumatic?  Each person is different.  i always try to keep that in mind.
 
i would not like to pass judgment on the OP's Master since i don't know him and can not imagine what he must have been thinking.  i do know that a lot of guys do have problems with female emotional displays.  And although i can understand that, i think relaying that to the OP in some other way than an outburst of laughter might have saved a lot of hurt feelings and questions of trust.
 
DG


(in reply to julietsierra)
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