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Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 3:44:07 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		A UNICEF report placed the well being of Britain's children at the bottom of a league table of 21 developed countries. The US faired little better at 20th. All the countries at the top of the league table are countries where there is a strong sense of collective responsibility and highly developed welfare systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6359363.stm

Does this point to societies that empahasize individuality above all else as societies that fail their children? Maybe it shows that conservative moralistic societies fall short to socially liberal societies? The report shows that in the Netherlands where drugs are easily available and sex is out in the open, their children use less drugs and have sex later than in conservative and moralistic countries like Britain and the USA. Why do you think Britain and the US fair so badly?

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 4:00:52 PM   
FukinTroll


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From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		Hmmm... I guess a country that is burning to the ground is better eh?

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 5:21:36 PM   
sleazy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Does this point to societies that empahasize individuality above all else as societies that fail their children? Maybe it shows that conservative moralistic societies fall short to socially liberal societies?


I would not think that the UK emphasizes individuality, if anythting the exact opposite.

How do such things compare between say liberal Holland and a community that really is conservative & moralistic, say the Amish or the deep south baptists in the US or the buddhists of nepal, rather than ones that try and work to the lowest common denominator such as the UK & US?

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 6:12:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I'm really not interested in any "report" the "U.N." puts out.
Does anyone still listen to them anymore?

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 7:57:33 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Once every ten-thousand posts, I have to agree with meatcleaver.
 
We have to do more for our children in the United States. We have serious issues. It's a dirty little topic that is too aweful to talk about ... so I guess we don't.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 8:46:55 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		True there is no sense in complaining about anything....A large group of people standing up for what they believe in has never led to change or ever had an affect on an administrations views on anything.....Stay silent and pray really, really,really  hard and just hope that Jesus or God will do your dirty work for you.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/13/2007 8:48:04 PM >

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 8:51:19 PM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

True there is no sense in complaining about anything....A large group of people standing up for what they believe in has never led to change or ever had an affect on an administrations views on anything.....Stay silent and pray really, really,really  hard and just hope that Jesus or God will do your dirty work for you.


Oh i disagree... i think if ppl truly get together for a cause, something will come from it....Of course, God helps too

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 8:52:21 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

A UNICEF report placed the well being of Britain's children at the bottom of a league table of 21 developed countries. The US faired little better at 20th. All the countries at the top of the league table are countries where there is a strong sense of collective responsibility and highly developed welfare systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6359363.stm

Does this point to societies that empahasize individuality above all else as societies that fail their children? Maybe it shows that conservative moralistic societies fall short to socially liberal societies? The report shows that in the Netherlands where drugs are easily available and sex is out in the open, their children use less drugs and have sex later than in conservative and moralistic countries like Britain and the USA. Why do you think Britain and the US fair so badly?


I am not at all surprised, but glad you posted this for the clueless among us.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 8:55:51 PM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		This problem has nothing to do with any administration and will never be solved by complaining.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 8:59:09 PM   
BradleytheKajiru


Posts: 14
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Status: offline 		Large groups of people standing up for what they believed in never changed anything?  What about the 1920's Suffrage?  Vietnam Protesters?  See what I'm saying?  Groups of people CAN change things.  =]

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:04:21 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
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Status: offline 		General response ... I believe domiguy was being sarcastic ... just so you know.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:04:42 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		facetious \fuh-SEE-shuhs\, adjective:
1. Given to jesting; playfully jocular.
2. Amusing; intended to be humorous; not serious.

Domiguy's comment was a facetious response to but another rediculous caitlyn post.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:27:25 PM   
BradleytheKajiru


Posts: 14
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Status: offline 		Ohhh.  Sorry.  =[  My mistake.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:32:35 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to believe that we are raising a politically correct nation of children who are not learning how to be responsible for their actions and who are not held accountable, are over-medicated, and who are living in a country (US) where we talk about serious issues (drugs, sex, violence), and then promote things that sabotage any efforts to make positive changes.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:34:21 PM   
HydroMaster


Posts: 4786
Joined: 9/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

This problem has nothing to do with any administration and will never be solved by complaining.


How does this not involve an administration?  Last time a checked administrations make the laws that affect....us.  Or are you saying that it doesn't have anything to do with the current administration.  You know, I used to actually defend a lot of what they did....but it's like bailing out a sinking ship with a shot glass.  There is no purpose to it anymore. 
Now, complaining is a whole different story.  You're right about one thing, it doesn't solve anything.  Unless there is a VIABLE alternative solution presented.  Thats something that has driven me nuts in this country since I could speak.  People complain about something and the alternative they suggest is completely unrealistic. If you can't come up with a workable solution what good is your opinion? 

My answer to welfare issues in the US.  Stop outsourcing jobs to other countries to promote employment.  Give the tax cuts to the middle and lower classes.  Tax the upper class...it won't kill them to eat less filet mingone or only own 2 mansions instead of 3.  They don't need tax breaks, they need more taxes. OK, end rant.  And yes I acually made a serious post...happens on occasion.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 9:52:42 PM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		I meant the government in general, as opposed to any specific administration.
 
I actually can't improve much on what Lady JulieAnn said.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 10:26:12 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

A UNICEF report... etc.

You’re assuming that the report is accurate, non-biased and seeks to report truth rather than support a political agenda. An ill warranted assumption in this day an age of open disingenuousness. Considering the source, the United "let’s-put-oppressive- regimes-in-charge-of-human-rights" Nations, I’d be doubly wary.

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/13/2007 11:30:00 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

I would not think that the UK emphasizes individuality, if anythting the exact opposite.



From an economic regulation perspective, Britain certainly encourages individuality. Over the last 30 years, the government has stepped back into the shadows and has increasingly shelved its wealth distribution responsibilities. This neo-liberal style of economics (which is essentially a free-for-all), has simultaneously had the intended, social effect of smashing working class institiutions and community.

The intention behind Thatcher's neo-liberal policies was to create a mobile workforce where workers could easily be laid off and redirected to other industries or laid off and cut off from society (in areas where there was no alternative industry). The intention being to increase British business competitiveness. This could only be done by breaking the collective spirit of the working class and their institutions e.g. Trade Unions, working class industries such as mining etc. Consequently, there is a sense of a lack of community running right through British working class society and where there is a lack of community there is a lack of respect for the community. Hence, anti-social behaviour and crime escalating.

The following are facts:

Britain has the highest rate of anti-social behaviour and serious crime in Western Europe (if not the developed world).
Britain has the largest wealth gap in Western Europe (and probably only second to the US in the developed world).

The Scandanavian countries have relatively low levels of crime and also have a relatively small wealth gap.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that neo-liberal economics is creating a significant part of British society that has no respect for their community. Where there's no respect you have theft, casual violence, alcoholism, drug abuse etc. It's little wonder that children growing up in such a community are plagued by the same anti-social behaviour (whether perpetrators or victims).

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/13/2007 11:47:29 PM >

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/14/2007 12:09:40 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

A UNICEF report placed the well being of Britain's children at the bottom of a league table of 21 developed countries. The US faired little better at 20th. All the countries at the top of the league table are countries where there is a strong sense of collective responsibility and highly developed welfare systems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6359363.stm

Does this point to societies that empahasize individuality above all else as societies that fail their children? Maybe it shows that conservative moralistic societies fall short to socially liberal societies? The report shows that in the Netherlands where drugs are easily available and sex is out in the open, their children use less drugs and have sex later than in conservative and moralistic countries like Britain and the USA. Why do you think Britain and the US fair so badly?


First off, you cannot legalize drugs in the US. Doing so will cause chaos for several reasons. The drug problem in the US is very complex. And if you have seen the movie, "Traffic" you will understand a few parts of a very complicated problem.

As for sex...dude, most of the people in this country do not even like the idea of sex ed in public schools. The only thing people want to talk about is abstinence. And that is it. You teach kids anything more than that you not only risk being fired, but thrown in prison.
I mean the United States Congress held several weeks of congressional hearings because Janet Jackson's left breast showed on national telivision for a 10th of a second. Yet you want to tell these same congressmen that we need more sex in the open. GOOD LUCK!!!

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RE: Britain and USA bad for children. - 2/14/2007 1:51:08 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

This problem has nothing to do with any administration and will never be solved by complaining.


The surprise goes each way in that I agree with caitlyn on the whole. While there are specific things governments can do, for the most part the problems appear to be cultural. I've been listening to analysis on the World Service and Dutch radio and two points picked up by the report is the alienation between adults and children and children finding their peers unhelpful at best and being fearful of them at worst. It paints a picture of adults having gone walk abouts and failing their children. It seems the solutions maybe deceptively easy, more boundaries and a more secure environment. However, when both parents have to work to pay the mortgauge and live, that is difficult. Another alarming stat in the report for Britain is that its children are the most unambitious. Ambition for Britain's children appears to be a steady reliable job. Such low ambition is neither good for the individual and good for the country. The irony when it comes to ambition is that more collective societies breeed more ambitious children. Warning your children about failure if they don't work hard enough to succeed doesn't appear to work as well as a sense of security and having an interest in education for its own sake.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/children/story/0,,2012512,00.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1381571.ece

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