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RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:53:35 AM   
findmedaddy


Posts: 254
Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Maine
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Why do you only ask questions?


Exactly.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:55:18 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial

Yes he would be in the wrong.  I would hope he would step up and take care of all medical bills
and apologize profusely and begin to "play" a lot safer, or the next stop could be the county jail.


As would any human being should do.

Ross  ©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to VeryMercurial)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:55:38 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		It appears I need to beg some pardons.  My responce was formed as it was due to all the dumb questions.  

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:57:16 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a submissive to a hospital for care for what was adminsistered in a session even though it was within the submissive's consent and limits?

i'm going to look at this from a different twist.  i have seen some slaves on here say that because they feel their Master can 'read' them so well, they have no safeword, no phrase, no shouting out....nothing allowed during a scene.  And i have seen them say that even if  they felt a bone was about to break, they would not speak out.
 
In this case, i would say medical attention would be the responsibility of the dom (if it was needed) because they were both aware there could be a chance of injury and both proceeded anyway....and now the sub needs medical attention so off to the hospital she goes.


Wouldn't this be an abuse of trust and responsibility?

Not if they were both aware of the possible consequences.

Should a dominant intentionally physically hurt, not emotionally hurt?

Is harm a perception or a reality and how is it defined?

i have to answer these together.  There was a whole thread on what constitutes harm and abuse in a D/s relationship.  i have to take KoM for an example when he said he kicks and punches his partners.  None of those involved perceive this as harmful nor abusive, so how can it be defined as such?  In their perception, it is not.  But...others said they would find this harmful in their relationship.  So i would have to say it is a matter of perception (one's personal reality) and defined by those involved.
 
Also, there's an interesting thread going around about reality and perception.  It really is quite interesting.


Can giving a submissive discipline on a regular basis be percieved as harm as a co enabling of an adictive personality?

i'm not sure i quite understand this.  Are you saying the sub has the addictive personality...or the dom?

DG

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:58:05 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Begging is so damned sexy!

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 7:59:46 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SCDommie

The police may not think so.  Need a good lawyer when you go to the hospital. If the sub is a woman, I bet it will be reported as abuse to authorities. 


Yes I believe they might have a different slant on the situation regardless of what both the submissive and dominant have agreed to within a consenting limit.

Why just yesterday in the snow I was spanking a very dear lovely delicious submissive in the parking lot with a large paint stirrer and wondered what the police would say if they came by or the people that were passing by would percieve.

Seems like motorcyclist have ABATE ....those that participate in BDSM need a legal group like BONDAGE

Ross  ©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to SCDommie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:09:09 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a submissive to a hospital for care for what was adminsistered in a session even though it was within the submissive's consent and limits?


I'm not real sure but would guess that he is talking about people that crave to be seriously hurt... I've know a few... very scary people, at least to me. As far as being in the right... legally... I seriously doubt it. Morally... I guess it whatever you can live with.

quote:

Wouldn't this be an abuse of trust and responsibility?


I think it would be... again.... a moral thing. To me, it's my responsibility to take care of and keep from harm. It's important that they trust in me for that. But... a slippery slope here... if that's what they WANT... where do you draw the line?

quote:

Should a dominant intentionally physically hurt, not emotionally hurt? 


By hurt I'll assume you mean cause pain... again, only my opinion.. physically, within reasonable limits, I think is ok... so long as it something that both parties gain pleasure from. Emotional pain is a whole different animal... you tread on ice when you go there... what is too much, what triggers are there from previous situations?

quote:

Can giving a submissive discipline on a regular basis be percieved as harm as a co enabling of an adictive personality?


Yes, it can be. I knew a girl that was addicted to hospitals.... went to one every chance she had, claimed heart problems or back problems (it depended on was going on at the time) and spent as along a time there as they would allow. She never visited a new city (that I'm aware of) without spending time in one of the local hospitals. Could buying into her fantasies be perceived as enabling... absolutely. Sadly, if one person doesn't then there are others that will. No one can save someone from themselves, they have to do it.
 
quote:

Why do you only ask questions? 


quote:

[Awaiting Approval]


I guess you get in what you can.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:09:41 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

"oooopsie's and awe shit's"  may happen, but who having the power to create them should be aware of the edge they walk on.


Yes they should be. So what do you do or ask before playing with someone to determine if they are capable of such responsibility.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:11:06 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

It appears I need to beg some pardons.  My responce was formed as it was due to all the dumb questions.  


There are no dum questions...only the ones that are not asked until it is too late.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:23:52 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69


Yes they should be. So what do you do or ask before playing with someone to determine if they are capable of such responsibility.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


Since I dont ~play~ without getting to know someone.  Yes I know.... so boring. 
But it's the only way to gain my trust. 


_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:24:29 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

There are no dum questions...only the ones that are not asked until it is too late.

You're incorrect.  There are plenty of "dum" questions, and you seem to ask a significant majority of them.  I'm not sure you how think you're qualified to train anyone in the "ways of the Old Guard" as you claim in your profile, when you have to ask such inane questions so frequently.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:29:59 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

There are no dum questions...only the ones that are not asked until it is too late.

You're incorrect.  There are plenty of "dum" questions, and you seem to ask a significant majority of them.  I'm not sure you how think you're qualified to train anyone in the "ways of the Old Guard" as you claim in your profile, when you have to ask such inane questions so frequently.



Seems like your perception borders on a personal attack.  Did I mispell dumb? Thank you for pointing it out for all of us.

Still I respect your opinion to voice it.

Questions are meant to evoke discussion ...anyone can spout rhetoric.

Keep up the good work.

Ross 
©º°¨¨°º©



(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:31:41 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69


Yes they should be. So what do you do or ask before playing with someone to determine if they are capable of such responsibility.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


Since I dont ~play~ without getting to know someone.  Yes I know.... so boring. 
But it's the only way to gain my trust. 



Not boring...smart....and intelligent.

Keep doing what you have been doing..it has always worked for you.

you have a level head on your shoulders...

btw do you need any computers or software?

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:39:26 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a submissive to a hospital for care for what was adminsistered in a session even though it was within the submissive's consent and limits?


If she needed the care it is incumbant upon him to send her to the hospital.

quote:

Wouldn't this be an abuse of trust and responsibility?


It would be a fulfillment of trust and responsibility if she needed the care

quote:

Should a dominant intentionally physically hurt, not emotionally hurt?

Depends on the desires of both people

quote:

Is harm a perception or a reality and how is it defined?


Yes it is a perception of reality, although most of us will agree to a range of behaviors that are off limits and harmful. amputation comes to mind.

quote:

Can giving a submissive discipline on a regular basis be percieved as harm as a co enabling of an adictive personality?

Well yes, but not all addictive personalities get addicted to pain. It is something to watch for though.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:49:14 AM   
quietkitten


Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Stuff happens and people get hurt... it happens in vanilla relationships too!

I have seen many couples in the ER with romantic injuries. If your partner gets hurt badly enough that your First Aid abilities cannot handle it, then head to the hospital!

Be upfront and matter of fact about what happened and reasonable Health Care workers will (hopefully) understand. Circumvent problems by taking a good first aid course and have supplies for those oopsies, and the awww shits as well.



_____________________________

The number 1 cause of stress is reality.

I miss my old Avatar :(

<< I am a depressed procrastinator with Alzheimers -- I am going to end it all.... tomorrow... or the next day.

Now what was I talking about again?

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:55:10 AM   
spiritedsassy


Posts: 18
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		i have to agree with SimplyMichael about the 2 camps.  i play for real and i like my Master to push and go where no one else dares....so if "awe shit" happens or even an "ooopsie"  so be it.  Take me to get medical care and He learns not to go so far or deep or whatever.  i wouldn't trust Him any less.  This is what i signed up for.  
CP's sassy 

(in reply to quietkitten)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 8:59:57 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

There are no dum questions...only the ones that are not asked until it is too late.

You're incorrect.  There are plenty of "dum" questions, and you seem to ask a significant majority of them.  I'm not sure you how think you're qualified to train anyone in the "ways of the Old Guard" as you claim in your profile, when you have to ask such inane questions so frequently.

~stef


I think these questions bring some very real issues into the spot light and I'm glad he asked them. There are people that really do believe that they "need" to be badly abused as often as possible. Whether it's an addictive personality trait or mental illness is beyond me... but worth a little discussion.
 
Personal attacks are so ugly.... don't you think?
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 9:00:23 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a submissive to a hospital for care for what was adminsistered in a session even though it was within the submissive's consent and limits?


Yes, shit happens.  A responsible dom will take care of any physical or emotional issues that have occurred due to their play.  If that means bringing in a professional, that's what should occur.

quote:

Wouldn't this be an abuse of trust and responsibility?


How so?  I'd think leaving a sub without proper medical attention would be moreso.  Accidents happen with even the most experienced and cautious of people.

quote:

Should a dominant intentionally physically hurt, not emotionally hurt?


A dominant should play physically and emotionally as agreed.  But the dominant should also be prepared to deal with the consequences, good or bad, of what happens when all is said and done.

quote:

Is harm a perception or a reality and how is it defined?


Harm is a reality but how it is perceived will vary from person to person.  What will harm me may not harm another.  Hopefully, responsible people try not to harm someone and if harm is done inadvertently, they are there to deal with it and make amends.

quote:

Can giving a submissive discipline on a regular basis be percieved as harm as a co enabling of an adictive personality?


Probably for some people.  But I don't get into relationships with those who are not so stable.  I am not addictive.  My sub is not.  We simply like what we like and indulge in our chosen expression of our relationship.  I think an addiction is something that will interfere with every day life.  Doesn;t happen to us.  I would hazard a guess it doesn't happen to most people in healthy, grown up relationships however they choose to express their love, kink, etc.



_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 9:02:07 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You're incorrect.  There are plenty of "dum" questions, and you seem to ask a significant majority of them.  I'm not sure you how think you're qualified to train anyone in the "ways of the Old Guard" as you claim in your profile, when you have to ask such inane questions so frequently.

Seems like your perception borders on a personal attack.

Opinions vary, clearly.

quote:

Questions are meant to evoke discussion ...anyone can spout rhetoric.

Intelligent questions evoke discussion.  Asking if you should take an injured person to the hospital for medical care that you are unable to provide yourself is not an intelligent question.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to SirDiscipliner69)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Would a Dominant be in the right if they sent a sub... - 2/14/2007 9:09:27 AM   
asubmissiveheart


Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		I am glad you spoke up Stef, many here won't.  Especially if it is one of their buddies.
But, maybe some here do not know the answer to this!
Now we know, if you need medical care you can not deliver by first aid measures and you harm
someone and they need to go to the hospital, take them!

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 40
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