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I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 8:41:13 AM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

Man, I need to be posting here more often...

Anyway... I have a small problem. I am president of a local group, and we have a core membership of five or six couples who attend every event. One of these couples is Gorean, and we are the first real-life group the slave in this couple has ever been involved with. The dilemma is this:

We have been planning an event wherein, because this is what Master and I prefer to practice in our household, we will be following Victorian-style protocol. This is something with which most members are not familiar, and we're viewing the event as a learning experience. We've even got a protocol expert coming in before the event to speak on this specific style of behavior. Everyone is thrilled about the event. Everyone, that is, except the Gorean couple.

I have been deluged with questions and comments that I'm finding extremely offensive. The event has been referred to as nothing more than "a fancy dinner," because part of it will involve the slaves serving a 7-course meal. It's been referred to as mere "role-play." I've even been asked by this slave, "What's in it for the slaves?" That one I don't understand at all. And this couple is complaining because we have decided that the dungeon will not be open for this event, because it's not about sex and play, but about service.

I've told them they are under no obligation to attend, and I have attempted to explain what I feel the slaves "get" out of the event - a sense of pride in knowing they have served well, a strengthened bond with the other slaves in the group, and an opportunity to learn something new being the biggest benefits.

I simply don't understand where these people are coming from. I don't get it. I mean, it's perfectly all right if something is not for you, but why the need to diminish and insult?

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

Post #: 1

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 8:54:43 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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Yes you DO need to be posting more!

I would say just as you did - they are welcome to not attend if they don't think it will suit them. And in fact perhaps they would like to host the next event, to ensure it is more to their liking.

Can't please all the people all the time, ya know?

Are the others looking forward to it?

And how come I'm not invited?

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 2

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:03:00 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

Whatever happened to plain ole good manners?

Can you imagine being invited to someone's home for a formal dinner party and calling up the hostess and complaining that you're more comfy in your tank top, shorts and flip flops?

I don't get it either, but then again, I don't get a lot of things this morning. ahahahahaha

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 3

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:03:11 AM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

'Cause you're in CA and I'm in IN.

The others are definitely looking forward to it, and we ARE looking at exploring several different styles and protocols. The group, as a whole, has a lot of interest in protocol. We've got several new members who are still trying to figure out what works for them, and the Kaptin and I feel it can only benefit these new members, and the group as a whole, to learn about and embrace differences. Apparently, this one couple feels it's a waste of time if they don't get to play in the dungeon.

I'd like to maintain the friendship with this couple, but I'm having a very hard time dealing with the negative comments and attitude of superiority I'm seeing.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 4

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:03:59 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Like ownedgirlie suggested, I would tell them that it would be fun to learn the Gorean way also, and enthusiastically demonstrate interest in learning what the Gorean way is. I would tell them that I would look forward to such a gathering

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 5

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:09:23 AM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

'Cause you're in CA and I'm in IN.

Oh yeah. Forgot that bit.

quote:

The others are definitely looking forward to it, and we ARE looking at exploring several different styles and protocols. The group, as a whole, has a lot of interest in protocol. We've got several new members who are still trying to figure out what works for them, and the Kaptin and I feel it can only benefit these new members, and the group as a whole, to learn about and embrace differences. Apparently, this one couple feels it's a waste of time if they don't get to play in the dungeon.

I'd like to maintain the friendship with this couple, but I'm having a very hard time dealing with the negative comments and attitude of superiority I'm seeing.

It is hard to maintain a relationship when you're the only one putting for the energy and effort and patience to do so. If you can continue to politely deflect their comments, then you're a step ahead in the game, and other than that, time does tend to allow the dust to settle. It's great the others are looking forward to it, and perhaps all of you can focus on making it as delightful an experience as possible. If you focus your energies on the positive stuff, there is little room left to deal with needless criticisms. Perhaps this other couple can stay home and play in their dungeon that night instead, eh?

Or perhaps the next event can be a dungeon event. While it appears ungracious for someone to complain and snivel about an invitation not being what they would prefer, it does seem like wasted energy to give it more attention than it warrants.

Good luck with that, and let us know how the dinner goes!

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 6

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:10:49 AM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

its ur house. its ur dinner, if they ain't bein nice , hey fuck em. you run into alot fools in this life. get em out with a quickness. i wouldn't want to come to a dinner like that, so i would ust say" hey i will pass" without gettin nasty

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 7

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:11:55 AM

WyrdRich

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

      Please post more Evanesce, we've gotta get the pendelum swinging the other way...

      The nearly infinite possibilities and varieties of WIITWD can be scary I suppose. Sounds to me like this slave is nervous about leaving her comfort zone. Is she new to the lifestyle as well as to involvement with a group?

      That wouldn't excuse her disrespect (my impression) of the practices of others. (I can't keep myself from noting the irony of a Gorean calling Victorian Protocol roleplay.) Maybe you need to progress from telling them they don't have to attend, to withdrawing the invitation completely. Attitudes are contagious, do you want a negative one at what sounds like a very cool experience for everybody else?

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 8

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:24:59 AM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

You're right, Rich, and we don't want a negative attitude infecting others.

Apparently, this girl has taken offense to my explanations and has now told me her Master will be answering my last email to her. To that, I have replied (and will say no more to her) as follows:

"Fair enough. But let me leave you with something to ponder. If you and (insert dominant's name here) were planning an event to educate people in YOUR way of living this lifestyle, and someone were to come to you and refer to it as nothing more than role-play and question why they should make the effort and go to the expense when things aren't going to be done according to how THEY live THEIR lives... how would you feel?" From ownedgirlie:

quote:

Or perhaps the next event can be a dungeon event. While it appears ungracious for someone to complain and snivel about an invitation not being what they would prefer, it does seem like wasted energy to give it more attention than it warrants.

This is true, too. I'm just trying not to have any hard feelings on either side. I'm not sure I'm succeeding, though. However, EVERY event in our home - and we host discussions/play parties every month - is a dungeon event. It just happens that, for this one, the dungeon is not available.

quote:

let us know how the dinner goes!

Will do! We're still in the planning stage, and I've been researching formal dinners because I've never served one before! I've got another couple months to get it all together, 'cause we're hoping to do it the second Saturday in May.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 9

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:33:54 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

It sounds like a great idea, I hope the event goes well! I have a formal dinner planned for September, since I did a ds/service oriented wine tasting that went well. With events that don't involve play and that involve being of service it can be hard for some people to understand what the appeal is.

I think though spending to much time responding to them and such just becomes an energy and time sink and at some point you'll probably have to disengage from communicating with them because they are never going to change your mind and you are never going to change their mind.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 10

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:37:24 AM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

yup yup yup. don't waste energy on the rude bastards. U can't please all da people all da time. stick wit da winners

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 11

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:38:44 AM

jadein

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

I just wanted to say good luck with this ... it sounds very exciting to me. As someone who (in my mind anyway) is new and has never been involved with a group ... I would be VERY nervous but also SUPER excited about the learning experience. It seems like such a cool thing.

I'm sorry that this girl is giving you such a hard time and honestly don't understand where she is coming from at all. I mean ... How can she take offense to you EXPLAINING why you are hosting an event in YOUR OWN HOME. Honestly, I'm sitting here giggling at how rediculous that is ... not giggling at you ... at her and how rude she is being.

I would love to hear about how this goes.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 12

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 9:45:43 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

In this case, I don't think the lifestyles involved have anything to do with it. They are just plain rude and that happens no matter what lifestyle you are in.

I wish you the best with your dinner and wish I knew of something similar around here. I think it would be fun to learn. Do let us know how everything turns out!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 13

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 10:02:08 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

I can appreciate how difficult it is, in a co-ordinator role, when two core people are pulling in a differention than the rest of the group. You did the right thing, in suggesting if they don't wish to attend, they are welcome not to, but are also welcome to attend if they feel it would be enjoyable.

If they are so frustrated with the group, they will eventually stop attending, and likely seek out others who are more closely aligned with their tastes. They are also, obviously, welcome to invest the time, money, and effort to build their own gear.

For the record, I would think that Goreans would jump at a similar chance; the regular Gorean line is that they are not interested in just the sexual element, but in the philosophy and beauty of life. You could suggest to them that in the books, there are no vivid sexual descriptions; perhaps they should focus on a conversation and non-sexual topic for a night. Careful with it, though, because people claiming to be experts -hate- to be shown they're wrong.

Stephan

_____________________________

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Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 14

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 10:28:36 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

I've told them they are under no obligation to attend,

I give you a lot of credit for your diplomacy so far, but it looks like it is only getting you more aggravation from them. It may be time to take it a step further and ask them not to come, while extending an olive branch (as well as a taunt) for them to come up with ideas and organize events that everyone else might like to participate in AT THEIR HOUSE.

Maybe that will shut them the fuck up, and let everyone else have a great time without them.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 2/18/2007 10:30:04 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 15

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 10:57:39 AM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

OP
First... I believe it was very prestigious in the Victorian court to have a "Savage" at the table. So let them be Gorean, just ask them to dress Gorean. If you are going to be all Victorian encourage them to be all Gorean. Observe some of their rituals... ask questions... hold a truly Victorian dinner full of questions.

What’s in it for the slaves? They really fukin asked that?

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RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 10:59:01 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Can't add much other than what you've done. You're hosting an eent, clearly stating what the expectations will be and that they are welcome to attend. If they don't find the event will be something they want to attend, then they can politely decline.

It is always sad when people shut down an avenue rather than research it for themselves, but we've all got our quirks.

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(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 17

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 11:10:13 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I wouldn't bother with them. I would say something along the lines of "I'm sorry your not interested in this but be sure the next time we do something more your style, we will remember to invite you."

Basically if you are planning something in the way of formal manners, they have already shown themselves unable to participate or enjoy it. Perhaps in the future issue everyone a copy of an ettiquette book before hand with suggestions that they read up and see if they are interested.

But I wouldn't suggest that they decline the invitation, I would rescind it. And I probably wouldn't invite them to things in the future because of their basic lack of manners. Although it is the s who is complaining about no dungeon play, there is no way for you to know if she's doing so at his behalf. Asking for clarification about the event is one thing, but complaining about it is unacceptable.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 18

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 11:27:24 AM

sensualmagirl

Posts: 1065
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline

I don't have a lot to add, I think you are being a gracious hostess by extending the invitation and remaining gracious after she complained too much about the dungeon not being available.

To me, honestly, I don't know her, but it sounds like she's a bit of a user. Seems like she's pouting because she's not going to get to use the dungeon. So instead of opening up to new experiences, she's, as my mother would say, "biting off her nose to spite her face" -- just my gut reaction, but, I'm a bit of a cynic about these things.

I'd love to hear how it goes. Sounds like a great night to me! Wish I lived in IN.

P.S. I like FT's suggestion too... that is if they accept it.

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(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 19

RE: I Have a Dilemma - 2/18/2007 12:09:41 PM

amiciaN

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Joined: 1/20/2007
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I have been to several coffees, munches, etc., that Denise also attended and I can vouch for her openness and tolerance, though I regretfully haven't been able to attend anything in the last year or so. (waves to Denise) I also know from the group's emails that Denise and her Kaptin graciously host a group discussion/potluck dinner/play party at least monthly and occasionally host other events as well. Adding to that, Denise accepted the office of President at a time when the group almost disintegrated, so she has experience in using diplomacy and tact. I would have to agree that it is simply rudeness on the part of the couple in question. Sadly, tolerance and respect for others is something that seems to be in short supply in all walks of life these days.

I think a dinner of this nature is a wonderful opportunity to share wiitwd without public play (a kink not all couples share). If it were being held when NChaka could be here, I would find the time/resources to be involved. After all, food is a huge part of French life and I would thoroughly enjoy serving Him in this way. I will just have to live vicariously through the group's emails.

Again, this is my opinion based on my experience. ymmv.

_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 20

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