RE: gender bias in this life and these boards

RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 12:34:16 AM)
slave2feet07: Okay, thanks for answering my question. I really didn't ever get many creepy e-mails from men (a few, maybe) but the vast majority of mail I ever got at CM was nice and considerate (it really was). - Susan

WingedSnake -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 12:53:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji quote: ORIGINAL: wolffeathers Tal, First, I'll admit I only skimmed through most of the responses. However, in my little corner of the community, gender bias does/doesn't exist. Now I'll explain. It's felt by those of us that there is a way everyone should interact. Men Dominat, females submissive. The same as in almost all other speices of animal. Therefore, it's not bias when it's the truth! Ever wonder why we hate Goreans? Yours, benji The advantage of precision, i admire you:.Ok, your way with words:-).

petdave -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 10:57:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: novicecourtesan However, I would say that this feeling is familiar to any woman who wears a hot, vaguely slutty dress but covers it up with a coat because she doesn't want to be whistled at on the street. Women too have been trained to take many precautions that men don't feel are necessary, and we get used to it even though we didn't like the unfairness of it. If that woman in a hot dress gets raped, she's going to have her own "guilty until proven innocent" problems. I'm not taking her side; every case is different. I think in the large scheme of things, despite the confusion that men may have in their roles and the bias they deal with in the media and in the law, the balance still tips in the favor of women as being more oppressed. That IS a classic example of gender bias. A woman can wear something that she knows will make her attractive to the opposite sex, then gets upset when men find her attractive. As someone who has never been attractive to anyone, it really blows my mind. Let's set aside for a moment the danger of non-consensually being taken by force, and consider a simple lingering look, or an invitation to dinner or drinks from a man who is clearly not in her league. What will he get? Hostility, self-righteous anger, a sense of having been greatly wronged. Do women get that same response when taking the initiative with men who are unavailable or uninterested? Anyone? Ever? As dogthing discussed, women take for granted that they can flaunt their sexuality and, by and large, receive positive reinforcement for it. Men? Uh, yeah. Feel free to count the admiring glances thrown my way when i'm rocking the beach in my banana hammock. (Joke... before i start getting bills for vomit-damaged keyboards... just a joke) i'll set aside the "lies, damned lies, and statistics" of salary discrimination. In my working life, i've had three male and two female bosses. Frankly, i'd rather be a housepet, and have not-inconsiderable skill in cabinetry, electrical work, automotive maintenance, and other home-improvement skills to add to the usual "Washing, Ironing, Fucking, Et cetera" that most female houseslaves bring to the table (i know there are exceptions). But, obviously, as a male my place is in the office, and if i desire anything different, i'm just a leech and a wannabe. But that's okay, because being submissive by nature is a huge asset to men in the workforce- no one expects us to be aggressive to get ahead. And speaking of submission... how often have you seen clubs or parties that have one price for single women (usually free), one price for couples, and the highest price of all for single men? Niiiice. However, i do admit that to holding a theory that if men and women had equal sex drives, our economy would utterly collapse, so perhaps it is all for the best... for someone, at least. [&:] ...dave

domiguy -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 11:21:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: petdave quote: ORIGINAL: novicecourtesan However, I would say that this feeling is familiar to any woman who wears a hot, vaguely slutty dress but covers it up with a coat because she doesn't want to be whistled at on the street. Women too have been trained to take many precautions that men don't feel are necessary, and we get used to it even though we didn't like the unfairness of it. If that woman in a hot dress gets raped, she's going to have her own "guilty until proven innocent" problems. I'm not taking her side; every case is different. I think in the large scheme of things, despite the confusion that men may have in their roles and the bias they deal with in the media and in the law, the balance still tips in the favor of women as being more oppressed. That IS a classic example of gender bias. A woman can wear something that she knows will make her attractive to the opposite sex, then gets upset when men find her attractive. As someone who has never been attractive to anyone, it really blows my mind. Let's set aside for a moment the danger of non-consensually being taken by force, and consider a simple lingering look, or an invitation to dinner or drinks from a man who is clearly not in her league. What will he get? Hostility, self-righteous anger, a sense of having been greatly wronged. Do women get that same response when taking the initiative with men who are unavailable or uninterested? Anyone? Ever? As dogthing discussed, women take for granted that they can flaunt their sexuality and, by and large, receive positive reinforcement for it. Men? Uh, yeah. Feel free to count the admiring glances thrown my way when i'm rocking the beach in my banana hammock. (Joke... before i start getting bills for vomit-damaged keyboards... just a joke) i'll set aside the "lies, damned lies, and statistics" of salary discrimination. In my working life, i've had three male and two female bosses. Frankly, i'd rather be a housepet, and have not-inconsiderable skill in cabinetry, electrical work, automotive maintenance, and other home-improvement skills to add to the usual "Washing, Ironing, Fucking, Et cetera" that most female houseslaves bring to the table (i know there are exceptions). But, obviously, as a male my place is in the office, and if i desire anything different, i'm just a leech and a wannabe. But that's okay, because being submissive by nature is a huge asset to men in the workforce- no one expects us to be aggressive to get ahead. And speaking of submission... how often have you seen clubs or parties that have one price for single women (usually free), one price for couples, and the highest price of all for single men? Niiiice. However, i do admit that to holding a theory that if men and women had equal sex drives, our economy would utterly collapse, so perhaps it is all for the best... for someone, at least. [&:] ...dave Please, it is a two way street...there is a huge difference between a glance and gawking...However if a woman, who is usually large breasted, ever negatively alludes to someone who "talks to her chest," but has gone to great lengths to enhance or show off that attribute then they deserve to be called on it. Women have been showing off their tits and asses for years...Initially it could be argued that since most of the designers were men..It woulld make sense...However, now we see many women designers but the trend has not changed at all. I would not entertain a dinner invitation from someone who is not "in my league" either...I would be polite...But that is where it would end. Social skills might be a dying art in the online age...But I have never asked for a date or dinner from a women that wasn't well received...It's because there was a conversation that usually preceded the offer and I had a strong idea as to where I stood with that woman. Most people if treated with common courtesy will respond even if there is no interest on their part in a similiar manner., How this site differs is that men who are or maybe not a Dom, use this as a ploy and think just by saying that I "Dominant" that a sub owes them something....Or by Dommes who don't have a single thing going for themselves... prostitute themselves out in the form of a tribute for some dumb sap to pay for some companionship. Either way it's a rediculous notion and anyone with an ounce of sense would realize that.

Sab -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 11:27:17 AM)
The gender bias is always to the woman.

novicecourtesan -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 11:28:26 AM)
Dave: I'm sorry that society forbids you to wear the banana hammock. It is really unfair. I would agree that the male genitalia is far more censored than the female genitalia. I am also sorry you think that no one has found you attractive, although I'm sure that's an exaggeration. I completely agree that the idea of a man just being a househusband is not treated fairly. Then again, the idea of being a housewife is still not politically correct by many female standards either. In many cases, the prejudice comes even stronger not from the opposite sex, but from disapproving members of the same sex. You don't have to convince me that males subs or slaves encounter a lot of discrimination; I believe it. I imagine male submissiveness flies in the face of what is traditionally considered masculinity. Most women have been conditioned not to be turned on by the penis, and or to be afraid of it. Inch per square inch, I would say that the amount of skin legally allowed to be shown is the same, but it varies greatly as to where you are, and it's unlikely that a naked woman would get the same criminal penalties as a man (even if the laws are the same, they're going to be enforced differently). So while I clearly cannot argue with your perspective, I can stand with mine--that for every double standard used against men, there is probably an equally egregious or even worse one for women. As for those clubs with ladies nights, I think you should take julieoceania's earlier advice and stay the hell away from them. Seriously. As a woman who is single and looking and who has been going to clubs for way to long, you can instantly tell if one is totally cheesy and full of overpaying idiots. The clubs charge single men more because they think they will pay more since the place is going to be flooded with women getting in free. The women are drunk and horny with their power, but yes, they will still scowl if you offer sex too soon. The men are sharks and offer sex way too soon. Don't go in there; take it as a warning rather than discrimination. Also--I have met a lot of men with big egos who will slam a woman for being too fat, badly dressed, whatever--if she is not in their league. I know men who have gotten up and walked out on dates. That is DEFINITELY not gender neutral behavior. Bitchinesss happens on both sides when people trying to believe the best about themselves and the people they attract. I would like to hear more from male subs/slaves on this subject. For me, their points seem most enlightening.

Sinergy -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 7:03:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: novicecourtesan (why do I have a detachable penis?). King Missile has an answer for this in their song Detachable Penis. Sinergy ----------------------------------------- I woke up this morning with a bad hangover, and my penis was missing again. This happens all the time. It's detachable. This comes in handy a lot of the time. I can leave it home when I think it's going to get me in trouble, or I can rent it out when I don't need it. But now and then I go to a party, get drunk, and the next morning I can't for the life of me rememberwhat I did with it. First I looked around my apartment and I couldn't find it, so I called up the place where the party was, they hadn't seen it either. I asked them to check the medicine cabinet coz for some reason, I leave it there sometimes, but not this time. So I told them if it pops up to let me know. I called a few people who were at the party, but they were no help either. I was starting to get desperate. I really don't like being without my penis for too long. It makes me feel like less of a man and I really hate to have to sit down every time I take a leak. After a few hours of searching the house and calling everyone I could think of, I was starting to get very depressed, so I went to the Kiev and ate breakfast. Then as I walked down Second Avenue toward St. Mark's Place, where all those people sell used books and other junk on the street, I saw my penis lying on a blanket next to a broken toaster oven. Some guy was selling it. I had to buy it off him. He wanted 22 bucks, but I talked him down to 17. I took it home, washed it off, and put it back on. I was happy again. Complete. People sometimes tell me I should get it permanently attached, but I don't know. Even though sometimes it's a pain in the ass, I like having a detachable penis.

kate -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (2/24/2007 8:21:43 PM)
men and women will never be treated the same because they are not the same... just as 2 women will never be treated the exact same as each other...they are not the same person and are treated as such....

slave2feet07 -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/9/2007 2:01:38 PM)
This link is a perfect example of the topic of this thread. This should not only apply to american women, it should apply to western women in general. Sadly I think this person hates women but he is closer to the truth than what most people would like to admit. http://www.the-niceguy.com/Sexism.php

thetammyjo -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/9/2007 2:55:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sab The gender bias is always to the woman. Are you kidding me? I will agree that it is damned difficult to be a man in a dying patriarchy, hell, it was difficult to me a man in classical Athens and that was a damn strong patriarchy, but to say that the bias is always to one group seems rather unrealistic to me.

thetammyjo -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/9/2007 3:00:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slave2feet07 This link is a perfect example of the topic of this thread. This should not only apply to american women, it should apply to western women in general. Sadly I think this person hates women but he is closer to the truth than what most people would like to admit. http://www.the-niceguy.com/Sexism.php I agree with the over all complaint that rights must entail responsibilities. However only blaming women when they are not given equal responsibilities is again denying how society and poltics and economics work in reality. Women had to fight for many responsibilities such as serving on juries -- that didn't happen until the late 1970s! As much as people may hate to serve on juries women had to fight to get the chance to hate it. Some men fought with them, some women fought against them, but in large if you look at the movements to extend rights and responsibilities to any group, usually the group the feeling deprived has to be the bulk of the fighters. Let's face it how many men would love to give up some of their responsibilities without losing any rights? Why do you expect women to be any different?

Arpig -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/9/2007 6:01:32 PM)
There is gender bias in everything. There always has been, there always will be. There is no point trying to change it, it is part and parcel of human nature.

Sinergy -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/9/2007 7:38:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slave2feet07 It all comes down to that a lot of today's women are malignant narcissists. So many women are more in love with them selves and their gender than they are with men. Dont hold back. Say what you really feel. Sinergy

slave2feet07 -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/13/2007 1:12:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: slave2feet07 It all comes down to that a lot of today's women are malignant narcissists. So many women are more in love with them selves and their gender than they are with men. Dont hold back. Say what you really feel. Sinergy lol of course, a man is a misogynist for expressing the wrong things women do but I wonder if a woman is a misandrist for expressing the wrong things men do? How often do women express the wrong things men do? Have a very long think about it and than question your views on equality. :-D

mnottertail -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/13/2007 1:23:33 AM)
quote: How often do women express the wrong things men do? Have a very long think about it and than question your views on equality. Pretty fucking much constantly bitching about it all the time in my estimation.... I don't want anyone to think I am holding back. Ron

Vendaval -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/13/2007 1:57:51 AM)
I would observe that gender bias is present both in society at large and on the Forums because they are a microcosm of the society. How much gender bias is there? That question is too difficult to qualify or quantify. Perhaps the next question is then - "How do you handle gender bias both the vanilla and/or Kink aspects of your life?" Speaking only for myself, I make a conscious effort to evaluate a person based on their behavior as an individual, until they prove that tactic to be futile and non-applicable. i.e. If they run in the frat boys and sorority sisters packs of drunken stupidity, then they are at best a nuisance and at worst another DUI or assault and battery statistic in the county jail. quote: ORIGINAL: toservez My questions are, in this life of BDSM, D/s and M/s is how much do you think gender bias comes into play both on the boards and in real life where the men are often found more often guilty until proven innocent then women on things in this life, have you ever caught yourself in a double standard and for message board purposes maybe some of the reasons this sometimes happens is because there can be a difference in how some males write that cause this bias (more coarse language and less description at times)?

toservez -> RE: gender bias in this life and these boards (3/13/2007 7:26:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slave2feet07 lol of course, a man is a misogynist for expressing the wrong things women do but I wonder if a woman is a misandrist for expressing the wrong things men do? How often do women express the wrong things men do? Have a very long think about it and than question your views on equality. :-D In some way that sums up what I think one of the things wrong about our society. It is all about right or wrong from some moral superiority position and not accepting that it is really about difference. Of course there is bias everywhere that is just human nature but somewhere along the line it went into acceptable and unacceptable actions that in this life and message boards of this nature the women are predominantly given more respect and benefit of the doubt then the men. There is bias everywhere and injustices in many places but I do think that the American culture is overly harsh on males. There often does seem to be women basically dictating what is “proper” and if men go against that it is not because they just have differences but because they are morally inferior and I think this has hurt relationships as it confuses both sexes.

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