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RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:10:39 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

LOL ownedgirlie! I was thinking that as much as this gets brought up there must be a huge problem within the BDSM community with murderous slaves.

As far as that new rage... is it more of a SSC or a RACK activity?


It's an MSM thing (murdering-slaves for masters).  It's in a class all by itself.

PS: Please do not confuse this with the chainsaw body part removal kink.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 2/22/2007 8:12:36 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:25:41 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		ownedgirlie "It's not like we go into this blindly."

Many, if not most, probably do not go into this kind of thing blindly. Because you didn't doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. There are those who do go blindly into the power of careless masters. That is why I have an issue here. Because of the potential for abuse, injury or even death. Absolute trust is inherently dangerous. I respect your (and Bita's) position that you took your time to choose wisely. I know that is very often not the case.

agirl "Basically someone is trustworthy when YOU think they are."

I couldn't disagree more. Indeed this is the most significant basis for my concern. A person is not automatically trustworthy just because someone decides they are. It depends on the good judgement of the person making that decision to trust. Some choose wisely, many others do not.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:27:07 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Dominic, I don't think anyone can disagree on that point.  It simply seemed that you were suggesting that ALL relationships like theres were inherently unhealthy and abusive.

When they most obviously are not.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:30:54 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I appreciate the ongoing dialogue on this thread, here - because I do think it's an important question. I appreciate all of the responses, no matter what the POV is (really).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 8:31:10 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:31:00 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Speaking for myself, I didn't make an inital decision to trust, I made an initial decison to *belong*. The trust I needed to have was there for me to ask. I trusted what I knew at the time.

That's all you can do, really. By the time I asked, I was as sure as I could be that I was able to let him make all or any decisions that were likely to be made.

You can only trust what you know.....and people have different criteria about how satisfied they are at any given time. If M said he could cut my hair in a style I chose, I'd let him.............because when he says he can do something, he can and I've seen that over time.

I don't think there's a *time* to trust............you either do or you don't. You can be given any amount of assurances and still not trust.

agirl






(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:36:57 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		agirl: I understand what you mean. I currently trust the man I am going to visit in Texas in March. I don't know him very well, but am getting to know him better. But - there is a manner he has that seems to be gentle. I can picture him being a very Dominant partner, but not an assh_le (which is important to me).

He also has a backgroud that has several things baout it that also helped me to place my trust in him so far: He has 38 years of bdsm experience (and can prove it). His past bdsm relationships have lasted an average of 7 years (way longer than what I hear is the "average" length for a bdsm relationship). He is in a medical profession, so presumably he cares about people's health in general (which would also include any submissive he is a partner of, I presume). He is intelligent, and appears to have good judgment, and we've talked about things like what he considers bad behavior in a Dominant, etc.- and his ideas about these things mesh with mine (and he brought up the topic, I didn't, so he wasn't just telling me what I wanted to hear). He is a respected member of his local bdsm community (even if he isn't as involved in it as he once was).

I am hoping for the best. If he does do anything really off-the-wall, or what I'd consider abberant behavior - it will be a surprise. I am sure it there is a remote possibility could happen, but - so far, so good.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 8:39:10 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:50:52 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I should maybe mention that the people who are saying they trust their Masters implicitly have also (some of them) stated that at some point they made an intial decision to give that trust to their Masters - and that initial decision is really what my question was about.

I was wondering just how people made that initial decision to trust someone - whether they trust them with every little decision from that point on, or most of them, or simply selective decisions - whether they are a submissive or a slave.


Okay, Susan, here's a stab at trying to get back to your original query. And let's also flip the question upside down. Thus far we have been talking mostly about how subs/slaves made the initial decision to trust. Here's an example of how I as the Master made that decision to trust.

When I was first talking with my slave, we were actually talking about her being my sub. She abhored the idea of being a slave, said she could never do that. From her explanations it became obvious to me that her understanding of what it meant to be a slave was skewed on the negative side (to be a slave was to be abused). I explained to her that most slaves were loved and cared for by their Masters. We talked for an extended time, several months, about a possible relationship between us. As time went on, it became obvious to me that we were a very good match, and she agreed. As a matter of fact I believed she would eventually want to be my slave, but I thought that would take awhile.

So I was somewhat surprised when, even before our first session, she signed an email "your loving slave". This change of heart came too soon in my opinion, and I initially could not accept that she understood the depth of what she was saying. So over the next few weeks I tested her conviction in many different ways, coming at the issue from all kinds of angles, to see if her conviction remained constant. It did, and from further discussions it became obvious to me that she did indeed understand and really was ready for that sort of commitment.

So my decision to decide to trust came from a carefully planned set of questions and watching her reactions to them.

Hope that might be of interest from the other side of the D/s relationship.
Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 8:51:36 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

ownedgirlie "It's not like we go into this blindly."

Many, if not most, probably do not go into this kind of thing blindly. Because you didn't doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. There are those who do go blindly into the power of careless masters. That is why I have an issue here. Because of the potential for abuse, injury or even death. Absolute trust is inherently dangerous. I respect your (and Bita's) position that you took your time to choose wisely. I know that is very often not the case.



People in life make bad decisions blindly. There is nothing inherently more risky about calling an abusive relationship master/slave or a marriage. I am a survivor of domestic abuse, he was not a dom, he was my husband.. and I was young and naive, and trusting, but my main problem is that I did not trust my gut. Women are at risk of being in danger whether they call it Ds or vanilla. Look at the statistics.

quote:

agirl "Basically someone is trustworthy when YOU think they are."

I couldn't disagree more. Indeed this is the most significant basis for my concern. A person is not automatically trustworthy just because someone decides they are. It depends on the good judgement of the person making that decision to trust. Some choose wisely, many others do not.


You see I think this is the entire problem with being "blind". People who are "blind", as you said it, are usually blind because they have no gut instinct telling them whether or not they should trust someone. Someone who has been taught not to trust that little voice, ignore it, or lie to themselves about it are the people at risk. I think agirl is right.. someone is only trustworthy if your inner voice tells you so, and most people are so used to taking cues from others, being "logical", being told their voice is "wrong" that they are at risk... they are blinded. These people have to learn how to trust their own judgment and what that voice is telling them.

I would never advise someone not to trust themselves... it is a recipe for ending up in an abusive situation... Why? Because they ignore their own voice in favor of outside voices, one of which may be the person that ends up abusing them (as in my situation).






_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:04:31 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		SirDominic: That is an excellent point to bring out. I didn't think of it (right now anyway - it has crossed my mind before) - but of course you are absolutely right (IMO) - a Dominant has as much right (and need) to make an initial decision to trust a submissive, too.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 9:05:07 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:16:32 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Dominic, I don't think anyone can disagree on that point. It simply seemed that you were suggesting that ALL relationships like theres were inherently unhealthy and abusive.


LA, I agree. Mostly when I am giving my opinion, I am looking at the big picture, not the individual's circumstances. The theoretical concept that to trust blindly is inherently unhealthy was the big picture for me. As an overall concept, I still stand by that. I have to also admit that I use blanket statements sometimes on purpose, precisely because I want to hear the opinions of those who disagree. For me, it's more like testing a theory. You take the issue as an entirety and winnow it down through discussion to get to the kernel of truth.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:24:29 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I think I will maybe always be a submissive and not a slave, but tha doesn't mean I don't admire some slaves (I do). It's just that there really is a teensy part of me (still) that wants a definite say-so as far as what I agree to do or not. I am also a Switch, not thta this has much to do with not being a slave (but perhaps something, in my particular case, anyway).

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:26:51 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Texas?  Where in TX?  Which local community?  Austin alone has about 4 or 5 "communities" one could be involved in kinkwise alone.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:28:37 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Julia, I dont think it is as simple as that. I do agree that many people make mistakes because they trust others to tell them what to do instead of trusting their instincts. But just as often a person's own instincts are skewed, whether it be from past emotional (or physical) injuries, or simply because they never learned to choose well.

Look at all the books addressing the issue of why smart women choose jerks for mates. More times than not it is the woman's decision making capabilities that are impaired. Society has taught them to make choices on the wrong criteria; their gut instincts are their worst enemy (at least in this aspect of their lives).

Whether or not to trust your inner voices can be tricky, depending on who you are.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:30:03 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		LA: He's in San Antonio. He does travel to Austin, occasionally, though. I will have to ask him about the names of any group he frequents. I will tell you who it is (Shhh. Don't tell anyone). It is ADomDoc (his real name is Ed). He's been in the SanAntonio area ever since he graduated from med school. He's a really nice guy (all indications are good, so far, at least).

He's hardly ever on the CM boards anymore (he's busy) - he does like the Humor section especially, though, when he is here, and occasionally posts in the Health & Safety section, and occasionally, a few others).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 9:32:52 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:38:52 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Ah so close- there's a whole contingent of SA people who come to Austin regularly.  LOL Half the GWNN board right now is San Antonians. 

If you have time when you visit, we should do dinner.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:43:16 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Julia, I dont think it is as simple as that. I do agree that many people make mistakes because they trust others to tell them what to do instead of trusting their instincts. But just as often a person's own instincts are skewed, whether it be from past emotional (or physical) injuries, or simply because they never learned to choose well.

Look at all the books addressing the issue of why smart women choose jerks for mates. More times than not it is the woman's decision making capabilities that are impaired. Society has taught them to make choices on the wrong criteria; their gut instincts are their worst enemy (at least in this aspect of their lives).

Whether or not to trust your inner voices can be tricky, depending on who you are.

Namaste, Sir Dominic


My point remains, if women totally rejected outside "noise" I am thinking that they would make good choices much more than they do. I think agirl is right generally about this. I think that it is people telling us not to trust ourselves is why we are so fucked up. Now I am generalizing, and not everyone fits that mold, but I would argue that women would be better off generally if they ignored everyone else and followed their intuition. I think generally this is good advice, and I generally believe that most people would be better off for doing this... although there are abnormal psychological profiles that shouldn't trust their perceptions, the vast majority of people SHOULD. Cultural conditioning is the problem, not our intuition

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:48:52 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		LA: Yes, we should. I am leaving for SA on March 12th - before I leave, I will make sure to give you a phone number (or you can give me yours, or both). It would be fun, I think! Thanks for asking. 

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 9:49:28 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 9:57:07 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
LA: Yes, we should. I am leaving for SA on March 12th - before I leave, I will make sure to give you a phone number (or you can give me yours, or both). It would be fun, I think! Thanks for asking. 

- Susan  

Ahh if you're around on the 17th, that's GWNNs bi-monthly play party.  Would be perfect.

We'll coordinate on the other side.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 2/22/2007 10:00:32 AM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 10:03:55 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		LA: I will be there until the 19th (and may stay a few days longer, depending on both of our schedules). I think it sounds great - my Daddy was going to look into bdsm activities in local groups when Im was there, but said there wasn't much going on in San Antonio that week, so Austin is good (also, it will be wonderful to meet you in person). I will ask-tell Ed about it, too (you don't mind if he tags along, do you?) 

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/22/2007 10:04:18 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: When is someone is trustworthy enough to put your l... - 2/22/2007 10:17:28 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
LA: I will be there until the 19th (and may stay a few days longer, depending on both of our schedules). I think it sounds great - my Daddy was going to look into bdsm activities in local groups when Im was there, but said there wasn't much going on in San Antonio that week, so Austin is good (also, it will be wonderful to meet you in person). I will ask-tell Ed about it, too (you don't mind if he tags along, do you?) 

- Susan 

I assumed he would!

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 100
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