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RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:06:28 AM

GeekyGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Geeky you are taking a clinical approach to inmates, which you should. I am sure they trained your opinion and rightfully so. Sometimes that training doesn't sink and guards help inmates smuggle drugs and other contraband, and in a few cases help them escape. I sincerely doubt you have set across the table from a serial killer, else you would understand that they are human. That is what makes them successful serial killers. If they all had shark eyes they wouldn't be serial killers. They would be murderers and thus, shark eyes or dead eyes, ending their career.
You are taking the proper stance that your career and training has given you. I would not like to see this thread change your opinion; we need you to have a cold clinical approach to criminals. Yet the reality is that your clinical approach does not function for the rest of the world that is not a part of law enforcement. If the world shared your opinion we would not have this thread and it would not be debated both ways. There would just be a Huzzah around the lands as the cattle were executed. No one would be exonerated because everyone would be absolutely certain that our legal system is with out fault.

I agree with you 100%. People who have not been in this line of work fail to realize that we HAVE to feel this way. We could not do our jobs if we didn't. It is ingrained into us, as certain principles are ingrained into soldiers. Seeing inmates as human can get people hurt when you work around them. For right or wrong, that's how it is. I've seen too many fellow officers fall victim to the mechananizations of these inmates. I will not allow it to happen to me. Trust them an inch and you open the door.

As for serial killers, true psychopaths are rare indeed. We do get many repeat murderers shall I say.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 61

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:06:34 AM

Devilslilsister

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

It makes your opinion a hell of a lot less valid than mine...

I see hundreds of them a day every day. You say you know "several"..how many is that? 10? 20? I bet it's not the 3500+ that we have incarcerated in our jail every day.

How many serial murderers do you know? How many baby-rapers? How many serial rapists? We aren't talking about Joe Schmoe with an ounce of Marijuana in his car or Bobby Smith who got in a bar fight. We are talking about evil people.

They weren't so "kind caring and lovely" when they were putting hammers through people's heads and watching the blood splatter on the face of their 6yr old or blowing people's brains out on the sidewalk and laughing about it.

I get really tired of this lovely-dovey "criminals are people too" stuff. I hear it every day and unless you work in the business, sorry, but I do NOT consider your opinion valid.

I could sit here and spout off opinions on brain surgery if I wanted to just because I've corresponded with a few doctors, but it wouldn't make my opinion valid.

If you want to associate with criminals, go ahead but don't fool yourself about what kind of people they are.

My own stepbrother is in prison and as far as I'm concerned, and as far as his parents are concerned, he doesn't even exist anymore. I would not associate with evil people.

Well i spent 6 months in a county jail. Hows that for valid? Because i kicked a cop "near" his nuts while i was strapped to a hospital bed. Was lovely watching my life get thrown away, because some dickhead cops thought it fun to lie on the stand. I happen to BE a person. Yet, i also happen to be a violent criminal. All 5 feet of me, yes best watch out when i've a gash in my forehead and i'm strapped to a bed!

i really enjoyed being in county. Lovely eating 5 month old food, because the law says it can be served legally until its 6 months old. Lovely sharing my food with roaches, even lovelier being stuck on concrete day and night. Lovely watching the gaurds walk by with shit eating grins eating something like pizza when you havent even the luxury of ketchup.

All of the girls i was in jail with are fucking humans. Know what i hate? The gov for being stupid and the police for not being able to up hold their own fucking oaths. Honesty, justice... yeah right. Its all bullshit, your jails are bullshit too.

Granted i got along swell with the gaurds, so i havent anything to say about them. But your attitude sucks.

You heard about the college project where it took half a class and made them prisoners and half the class and made them gaurds? Guess what... the power got to the gaurds. The gaurds treated the prisoners inhumanely and like animals. i guess you are just the "norm" Wtg for being your own person.

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Post #: 62

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:07:17 AM

SusanofO

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GeekyGirl: Well I believe there is such a thing a evil, and I do believe evil people exist. Sorry I misunderstood. Who knows, really? It's one of life's great mysteries I hope to get some answer for, after I die...

- Susan

_____________________________

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 63

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:07:38 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

GeekyGirl,

To paraphrase: Being Insane doesn't NECESSARILY mean you shouldn't be put down.

Exactly. Being insane doesn't mean you need to be allowed to live.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/21/2007 11:10:43 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 64

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:10:12 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

It makes your opinion a hell of a lot less valid than mine...

I see hundreds of them a day every day. You say you know "several"..how many is that? 10? 20? I bet it's not the 3500+ that we have incarcerated in our jail every day.

How many serial murderers do you know? How many baby-rapers? How many serial rapists? We aren't talking about Joe Schmoe with an ounce of Marijuana in his car or Bobby Smith who got in a bar fight. We are talking about evil people.

They weren't so "kind caring and lovely" when they were putting hammers through people's heads and watching the blood splatter on the face of their 6yr old or blowing people's brains out on the sidewalk and laughing about it.

I get really tired of this lovely-dovey "criminals are people too" stuff. I hear it every day and unless you work in the business, sorry, but I do NOT consider your opinion valid.

I could sit here and spout off opinions on brain surgery if I wanted to just because I've corresponded with a few doctors, but it wouldn't make my opinion valid.

If you want to associate with criminals, go ahead but don't fool yourself about what kind of people they are.

My own stepbrother is in prison and as far as I'm concerned, and as far as his parents are concerned, he doesn't even exist anymore. I would not associate with evil people.

Well i spent 6 months in a county jail. Hows that for valid? Because i kicked a cop "near" his nuts while i was strapped to a hospital bed. Was lovely watching my life get thrown away, because some dickhead cops thought it fun to lie on the stand. I happen to BE a person. Yet, i also happen to be a violent criminal. All 5 feet of me, yes best watch out when i've a gash in my forehead and i'm strapped to a bed!

i really enjoyed being in county. Lovely eating 5 month old food, because the law says it can be served legally until its 6 months old. Lovely sharing my food with roaches, even lovelier being stuck on concrete day and night. Lovely watching the gaurds walk by with shit eating grins eating something like pizza when you havent even the luxury of ketchup.

All of the girls i was in jail with are fucking humans. Know what i hate? The gov for being stupid and the police for not being able to up hold their own fucking oaths. Honesty, justice... yeah right. Its all bullshit, your jails are bullshit too.

Granted i got along swell with the gaurds, so i havent anything to say about them. But your attitude sucks.

You heard about the college project where it took half a class and made them prisoners and half the class and made them gaurds? Guess what... the power got to the gaurds. The gaurds treated the prisoners inhumanely and like animals. i guess you are just the "norm" Wtg for being your own person.

I have never treated an prisoner in an inhumane or unjust manner. In fact, when I see other officers doing things that aren't fair, I speak up for it. When no one will call medical for an inmate that is truly sick, I'm the one taking time out of my lunch break to go down and let the nurse know what is going on.

Yes, I've seen poor treatment and poor conditions. However, I have always said that part of my job was to to treat the inmates fairly, no matter how distasteful I found them.

And for the record, I will agree that most of the female inmates I met were indeed humans and decent people and many of them were in jail for stupid reasons. Most of my comments are in reference to "true" violent criminals, most of which happen to be male. I've already said I'm not talking about petty shit...I'm talking murder and rape which usually isn't something females commit.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/21/2007 11:12:35 AM >

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 65

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:11:36 AM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

I agree with you 100%. People who have not been in this line of work fail to realize that we HAVE to feel this way. We could not do our jobs if we didn't. It is ingrained into us, as certain principles are ingrained into soldiers. Seeing inmates as human can get people hurt when you work around them. For right or wrong, that's how it is. I've seen too many fellow officers fall victim to the mechananizations of these inmates. I will not allow it to happen to me. Trust them an inch and you open the door.

As for serial killers, true psychopaths are rare indeed. We do get many repeat murderers shall I say.

Thank you Geeky. Now bearing this post in mind you do understand that any consecutive posts that you make on the subject is redundant. I don't want you to "feel" you are locked out of the debate... but there is nothing further you could add that would have any significance here.

You are trained, specifically to deal with them and no one here should be able to relate to your position, but we can respect your job as one of difficulty and conditioning.

It is akin to us jumping on a thread with John Warren and arguing points of his book.

_____________________________

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Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 66

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:12:10 AM

OffTheBeatenTrak

Posts: 116
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Your family member who spent time in jail for reckless driving was wrong for what he/she did. That's why he was found guilty. He should have acted like a responsible person, driven carefully, obeying all signs, speed limits, etc and he wouldn't be in jail, would he?

I'm amazed that with out any facts or information you are able to be so judgemental with your opinions about his case and his personality. And i refer you to two of your previous post in which you say..

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
ETA: It's funny how people who've never been exposed think they know so much...

and

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
It makes your opinion a hell of a lot less valid than mine...

The point i was trying to make before you started on the rights or wrong of my farther case was, the accident doesn't make him any less of a human and by no means does if make him evil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
This isn't about the science of mental illness..it's about my belief in the forces of evil which make people suffer from "mental illness". Yes they might be mentally ill...but what made them that way? Evil is my general answer. The sum force of negative energy that makes a person go crazy and do horrible things. I've seen it first hand.

Becareful about generalisations, mental illnesses have different cases. Some of which include brain demage, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, electrical connectivity problems with in the brain or imense emotional traumar to name only a few. There is no evil reason for a genuine mental illness.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 67

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:13:33 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases

Glad to know that law enforcement professionals are professional enough to avoid breaking the Federal, State, and International laws against discharging toxic materials at sea...

Wait, move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, there is. To sit in judgement of people who are in jail as being Evil, while admitting the crimes one has committed, seems a tad hypocritical to me. Are you saying that what makes them evil is they got caught?

As usual, this is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 68

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:14:53 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OffTheBeatenTrak

Becareful about generalisations, mental illnesses have different cases. Some of which include brain demage, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, electrical connectivity problems with in the brain or imense emotional traumar to name only a few. There is no evil reason for a genuine mental illness.

I agree with this. I'm not talking genuine mental illness. I'm talking about the freak who drowns her kids and claims "insanity" It's b.s. It was an evil person who did an evil act.

(in reply to OffTheBeatenTrak)

Post #: 69

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:16:23 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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To go back you said ur opinion of inmates was more valid then mine because you work with them.
Well i have a qualification in psychology so by your theory that makes my opinions on the way the mind works more valid than yours - go figure lol.

Be an inmate lover if you want to be.
Tut tut little miss judgemental again.

Oh and apologies for delay in response i was on the telling bone.

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Post #: 70

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:16:31 AM

Wulfchyld

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Geeky. You should walk away... really.

Abraham herd voices too. Fortunately those voices said the goat will do.

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Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 71

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:16:33 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases

Glad to know that law enforcement professionals are professional enough to avoid breaking the Federal, State, and International laws against discharging toxic materials at sea...

Wait, move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, there is. To sit in judgement of people who are in jail as being Evil, while admitting the crimes one has committed, seems a tad hypocritical to me. Are you saying that what makes them evil is they got caught?

As usual, this is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

I'm not saying everyone in jail is evil. Stop misquoting, folks. I said SOME people in jail are evil, specifically murderers, rapists, and pedophiles. As for my own crimes, I don't believe I've ever done anything more serious than a traffic violation. I'm a stereotypicall goody goody.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 72

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:17:53 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Geeky. You should walk away... really.

Abraham herd voices too. Fortunately those voices said the goat will do.

Maybe I should, but I love a debate and I'm stubborn.

However, you're right in one aspect...these people will never understand because they don't live the life I do. In my opinion, they aren't qualified to give an opinion, just as I feel I am not qualified to give an opinion on the war in Iraq because I am not an american soldier.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 73

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:19:40 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: OffTheBeatenTrak

Becareful about generalisations, mental illnesses have different cases. Some of which include brain demage, chemical imbalances, genetic defects, electrical connectivity problems with in the brain or imense emotional traumar to name only a few. There is no evil reason for a genuine mental illness.

I agree with this. I'm not talking genuine mental illness. I'm talking about the freak who drowns her kids and claims "insanity" It's b.s. It was an evil person who did an evil act.

To take it one step further...

A person has schizophrenia or whatever and commits crimes.

The person is put on medication and released after pleading insanity.

The person feels better, decides to stop taking their medications.

The person commits more crimes.

The person is captured and pleads insanity again.

If it were up to me, they have made the decision as a rational individual to stop taking the medications
that kept them from committing crimes. So any crimes were the result of the rational individual refusing
to take the medication that kept them from breaking the law.

As far as I am concerned, the person has waived the right to use the insanity defense.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 74

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:20:26 AM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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Geeky, they are very qualified to give their opinion. What you fail to realize is that you have been desensitized to humanity to fulfill your duty as a jailer. Again, I am urging you to walk away. You have valid contributions to make to other threads and the trap here for you is very clear to me.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 75

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:31:16 AM

GeekyGirl

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Joined: 8/21/2006
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Wulf, Maybe you're right...although I still plan on eavesdropping on the thread.

Maybe I am desensitized...I won't deny that part. I'm a jailer raised by cops...I guess that has to desensitize you to a degree. Personally, I think others are TOO sensitive to the issue. I'm a rational, clinical thinker about a lot of things (part of my own mental illness, aspergers.)

I do take it personal when people imply that there is something wrong with me or that I'm a judgemental person for calling things as I see them...talk about judgemental? Well they are judging me, and unrightfully so, for if they have not done my job, then what right do they have to judge? They are painting me as a "bad" person. I'm not...I'm a very good and kind hearted person who has chosen to risk my life 40hrs a week to make sure the bad guys stay safely locked up. I'm helping contribute to these people's safety and they want to side with the same people who would gladly rob them, rape them, or kill them. I can't even begin to understand that mindset.

But I do agree with you and I'm going to bow out. These people will never understand my point of view and will continue to paint me as the villian for being realistic enough to see these inmates for the kind of people they really are.

I'm going to share one final thing...A man once told me that we all divide the world in half in some form or fashion and we identify with one half and dislike the other. We form an "us vs. them" mentality in relation to that issue. Doing so doesn't make you a bad person...it makes you human. For some people, that dividing line centers around race or religion or sexual orientation. For some it's Lifestyle orientation, politics, employment status, social status, money, etc. For me, it's criminal history. I divide the world into criminals and non criminals. One transgression doesn't make you a criminal. It takes certain criteria in my mind before you fall into that category. And once you're there, you're on the other side of the dividing line. End of story. No going back, no gray areas, no switching sides. For right or wrong, that is how I view the world and we're all guilty of it to one extent or another.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 76

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:31:50 AM

OffTheBeatenTrak

Posts: 116
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Maybe I should, but I love a debate and I'm stubborn.

However, you're right in one aspect...these people will never understand because they don't live the life I do. In my opinion, they aren't qualified to give an opinion, just as I feel I am not qualified to give an opinion on the war in Iraq because I am not an american soldier.

Just because some one does not have the same type or amount of experience as you doesn't mean that they should suppress there opinion. How else do people learn from each other. I think maybe if you didn't have 'you know nothing' and 'your opinion does even count for anything' type posts then maybe people would be more receptive to what you are actually trying to say. By dragging them down in such a way you are making them instantly on the defensive.

< Message edited by OffTheBeatenTrak -- 2/21/2007 11:33:55 AM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 77

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:32:39 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases

Glad to know that law enforcement professionals are professional enough to avoid breaking the Federal, State, and International laws against discharging toxic materials at sea...

Wait, move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, there is. To sit in judgement of people who are in jail as being Evil, while admitting the crimes one has committed, seems a tad hypocritical to me. Are you saying that what makes them evil is they got caught?

As usual, this is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

I'm not saying everyone in jail is evil. Stop misquoting, folks. I said SOME people in jail are evil, specifically murderers, rapists, and pedophiles. As for my own crimes, I don't believe I've ever done anything more serious than a traffic violation. I'm a stereotypicall goody goody.

I did not quote you, GeekyGirl, I quoted popeye1250. I did not suggest you violated any laws whatsoever.

I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions on this matter. I may not share them completely, but your point of view is both learned and relevant to the topic at hand.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 78

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 11:34:06 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases

Glad to know that law enforcement professionals are professional enough to avoid breaking the Federal, State, and International laws against discharging toxic materials at sea...

Wait, move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, there is. To sit in judgement of people who are in jail as being Evil, while admitting the crimes one has committed, seems a tad hypocritical to me. Are you saying that what makes them evil is they got caught?

As usual, this is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

I'm not saying everyone in jail is evil. Stop misquoting, folks. I said SOME people in jail are evil, specifically murderers, rapists, and pedophiles. As for my own crimes, I don't believe I've ever done anything more serious than a traffic violation. I'm a stereotypicall goody goody.

I did not quote you, GeekyGirl, I quoted popeye1250. I did not suggest you violated any laws whatsoever.

I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions on this matter. I may not share them completely, but your point of view is both learned and relevant to the topic at hand.

Sinergy

My apologies Sinergy. I misunderstood you.

And for that matter, my apologies to any I've offended here. I appreciate and enjoy this community and sometimes we get passionate about things which are personal to us. While I stand by my statements, it is not meant as a personal offense to anyone here.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/21/2007 11:35:54 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 79

RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 12:00:30 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

TB tests every quarter. It's a HUGE problem. A lot of people don't realize what a big issue TB still is.

That's the part of the job I like least...exposure to every kind of disease imaginable.

Funny though...I worry more about lice than TB. I've got hair down to my waist and I get scared to death of lice outbreaks!

Right now I'm nursing my way through a nasty strain of the flu...those people bring in every kind of bug/germ imaginable with them off the street.

The one that shocked me was meeting a man with syphalis (sp?). I didn't even know it still existed.

Yeah, lice would be pretty fuckin' ICKEY!
If you get sick on the job like that and take time off does it come off of your sicktime?
Yeah, we DID have Tuburulosis eradicated in this country at one time but with this out of control "immigration" from third world countries we're getting all kinds of third world diseases making a comeback especially T.B.!
And little do people know that these people are also bringing in *LEPROSEY*! (SP?)
If I'm in a store or anywhere in public I won't go near any suspected illegal aliens!
They can kill you just by sneezing!
Or six months later your fingers go numb and start falling off.

popeye1250:
Your ignorance of the mechanism of transmission for leprosy is unacceptable from a person who can read and write and has access to a computer. It underscores your monomania that you continually pander on these boards. Would you do me a favor and educate yourself.
thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 80

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