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ORIGINAL: Sinergy

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We'd simply throw it overboard in many cases

Glad to know that law enforcement professionals are professional enough to avoid breaking the Federal, State, and International laws against discharging toxic materials at sea...

Wait, move along, nothing to see here.

Actually, there is.  To sit in judgement of people who are in jail as being Evil, while admitting the crimes one has committed, seems a tad hypocritical to me.  Are you saying that what makes them evil is they got caught?

As usual, this is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

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ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I am counting on the fact that thes e incompetent and corrupt prosecutors, as well as guilty prisoners (or the guilty who are free at the expense of the innocent), are going to get their come-uppance in the next life. But that's a religious belief. I still think we need prisons, unfortunately.

I must admit I wouldn't bat an eye if pension-defuaders got life in prison. I have a real hard time with some of the sentence differences for so-called "white collar" and "other" crimes (murder, rape, etc.)

- Susan

Susan, they were handing out some pretty stiff sentances in all those "Enron" type cases as well they should.
Martha Stewart got off very easy for that insider trading stuff!
She should have done 10 years for that!
I always thought that there should be the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" but I see cases where there is nothing but doubt that still end up guilty!
"He could have done it!"
No shit, so could have 100,000 other people!
Jurys should be better instructed on "reasonable doubt."
If I were on a jury and it appeared that someone "may" have done something I'd vote "not guilty."
It is up to the police and prosecutors to "prove" beyond any reasonable doubt that someone "did" something.
If there's ANY doubt at all then the verdict should be "not guilty."
As a juror I wouldn't be willing to put someone in jail or the gallows if I had any doubt about their guilt.
It would have to be pretty much "iron clad."

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

It is amazing how many people convicted of murder claim innocence and there is never a shortage of people prepared to totally accept that claim.

Having said that the possibility, not to say downright certainty of executing the innocent is the only argument I can see against the death penalty. Pretty powerful one too !!!!

How many  innocent 'Irish terrorists' would be dead now if Britain had the death penalty? I can't think of the number off the top of my head but I'd say at least between 10-15. I remember one retired judge saying about one campaign to free some 'terrorists', if we had the death penalty this wouldn't be a problem.

That episode caused the rethink of the whole British criminal justice system and the introduction of the Crown Prosecution Service. The Service the police and many others complain about for not bringing charges against 'guilty' people.

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ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Geeky I am going to give you an idea here that will make me a bad guy. But bear with.
 
Many countries have corporal punishment, which is a hell of deterrent. Here in Okiville we still have Sheriffs that believe a good ol ass whoopen goes a long way with rehabilitation. I know for a fact that many of those victims of a good ol ass whoopen do not ever fuk up in that county again. They walk away with the hell beat out of them and a sparkling clean record. Most don't ever fuk up again, anywhere.
 
America has commercialized prison so incarceration has become a corporate payday. I designed a prison that rehabilitates, pays for itself, and runs off of zero taxpayer dollars. Now those good ol boys in government looked it over, sat in awe of it, and done the greatest thing they ever could have done for me. They said it is brilliant, we understand how it works and it works beyond what anyone could ever dream... but...
 
As you know that almost everything after but is bullshit...
 
There is no way to divert funds from such a facility. I kind of scratched my head and said "what?" He said there is no way for politicians to get their hands in the kitty jar. You really don't think it cost $30k a year to house a prisoner do you?
 
That is what made me understand it isn't about rehabilitation. It is incarceration for profit.
 
So we could probably look at other countries with corporal punishment as an option but our bureaucracy won't ever let it happen.  
 
Now for the question of geography… people are predators. If you don’t believe me go to store that is having a really big shoe sale. You will see all the Buddhist vegans eating each other over a pair of pumps. Crime is 90% opportunity vs consequences. The more opportunities you have, i.e. available victims, in a given location, the less consequences, i.e. law enforcement, you have.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Wulfchyld:
I thought the constitution made a pretty clear prohibition against corporal punishment in this country...but then as GWB has said "its just a goddamned piece of paper"
thompson

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ORIGINAL: cjenny

I wonder why the whole breakdown of the mental health system ( in the USA ) hasn't been brought up as a contributor to some of those waiting for their sentence to be carried out.
Please don't quote me on details, I am pulling from memory. Approximately 50 years ago many of our state mental institutions closed due to lack of funding, that shot up the number of homeless people. That in turn contributed to criminal behaviour, drug use et al.
Many of the people in our prison system that have mental illness simply don't have another place to go. We have an enormous gap in our system & no easy answer.
Personally I am for the death penalty. I don't believe that people ought to be 'put down' as a routine ending, there are flaws in that system as well. There are some acts so horrific that no amount of reparation (sp?) will help much less fix & yes I believe that there are many people that should not be a part of society.
It is a tool.
The problem [to me] comes in the way that the tool is used.

I read something from somewhere years ago that has always stuck with me "A society is only as good as its prison system". Or something very similiar.

I would be curious on the numbers.. are there more 'innocent's on death row or more 'innocent's in the general prison system. Yes it happens, again it is a flawed system that works as best it can. Supporting those groups that assist the innocent helps.
Finding an alternative for those that are mentally incompetent would help even more.

It isn't a black/white issue, as with anything involving humans there are a lot of variables.

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ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

Thanks for the explanation and you make wonderful points. I know I said I was bowing out, but I am curious as to one more thing: Do you feel that geographical location makes a difference on these subjects? My opinions are very common here in the south and especially here in Texas, even among "John Q Public". I'm curious as to demographics. I'm reminded of that comedian from texas who said, "Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty..hell, my states putting in an express lane."

Talking on the internet allows us to interact with people all over the world...sometimes we  may believe our opinion is very common until we talk to people from a different geographical location. I find that Texas is very conservative about this issue and that I find my opinion to be in the majority here.I was actually shocked to find so many who disagreed with me.