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RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:25:17 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		No public danger then ?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:26:28 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		No. No public danger other than the inherent danger of living in Freedom and Liberty.

Are YOU brave enough to accept the risk of OTHER PEOPLE having Freedom and Liberty?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:33:14 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Dont suppose you will agree but I believe the intervention in Iraq was to free the Iraqui's from a tyranny.(sp?)
My spelling is going kaput.

Have no conspiricies planned by Muslims with the potential for violence been uncovered in the US?
There have been several  here in the UK

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:35:04 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No public danger then ?


The only public danger I have seen for several years got elected Simian In Chief by Dumbfuckistan.

Sinergy

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:58:26 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

I couldn't have said it better. I was at one time a staunch opponent of the death penalty. Even throughout most of the trial of a man who killed 3 members of my family over $7.26 I was speaking against the death penalty being part of the possible sentencing. I felt that as a human he had to have some redeeming quality and that his being imprisoned for life would be enough of a punishment.

The detective and prosecuter sat down with me one day and asked how I would feel if this young man were to eventually get out of prison and commit this same crime to another family. They explained the meaning of a Life sentence in that state. The chances of his actually serving "life" in prison were very slim and he would have gotten out eventually at still a relatively young age. Rather than a clue by four I would compare that moment of comprehension to being hit by a Mack Truck. His death wouldn't bring back my family members, but it would most definitely ensure that no other human would have to endure the heartache we did and still do.



There is quite a bit of evidence that it doesn't actually work that way.

I used to live in Germany for many years. Germany does not have the death penalty. Germany does not even have a life sentence. The maximum penalty for *anything* is 15-years to life. If you commit several crimes, sentences are always served concurrently, so there is no such thing as 400-years-to-life, either, although if you serve several concurrent sentences, of course you may not get probation right after 15 years. The Germans are just in the process of releasing Brigitte Mohnhaupt, a terrorist roughly as bad as Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber and with a string of terrorist attacks, after (I believe) 17 years in prison.

Guess in which country you are more likely to get killed? The USA has ten times the murder rate of Germany per capita. By the way, it is *only* murder. If you look at any other type of crime, whether fraud, robbery, theft, rape, kidnapping, Germany's crime rate is consistently the same or slightly higher than the USA.

It seems that at best, the death penalty does not actually prevent other families from suffering the same fate.

Another point: the death penalty may actually allow murderers to get off scot free. Most countries in the world condemn the death penalty, and refuse to extradite candidates. Effectively, the US insistence on the death penalty makes most of the world a safe haven for murderers. Just look at what it took to get Ira Einhorn back: 20+ years and a promise to not seek the death penalty.

Had the man you had to deal with been smart enough, he would have gone to Tijuana - and probably would not have served any time at all. Mexico is one of the 100+ countries that doesn't extradite when there is the threat of the death penalty.

Plus, I'm cynical. The prosecutor may well have had political ambitions and needed to up his death penalty count to get elected to some other office later.

Now with that, I don't want to argue on the intensely personal situation you experienced, or even imply that I would have done anything different. I just think there is solid evidence for another point of view.

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 4:38:57 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Dont suppose you will agree but I believe the intervention in Iraq was to free the Iraqui's from a tyranny.(sp?)
My spelling is going kaput.


I don't see that enumerated to be a Federal power in the Constitution or Amendments. Do you have a citation to support the hypothesis that that is a Constitutional authority?

quote:


Have no conspiricies planned by Muslims with the potential for violence been uncovered in the US?
There have been several here in the UK


When *I* see a terrorist, or criminal, have no doubt that *I* will act as needed to defend myself, my family, my friends and neighbors in the Great State of New York.

And I'm not seeing any terrorists or criminals who constitute what is referred to as a "Clear and Present Danger".



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 1:06:16 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
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From: P'burgh PA
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quote:

Now with that, I don't want to argue on the intensely personal situation you experienced, or even imply that I would have done anything different. I just think there is solid evidence for another point of view.


funny, seems that's exactly what you just did.

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She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 1:28:52 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		cadenas:
Deterrence IMO is not the only reason that the death penalty should be on the statute book. Some crimes are so wicked that the perpetrators deserve to be despatched

The high murder rate in the US is not I believe a consequence of the death penalty.
The availability of weapons is a factor but I believe the Devil take the Hindmost economic philosophy that prevails in the US is a major influence.
The racial mix doesnt help, with certain sectors having difficulty, for a variety of reasons including but not exclusively racism, in rising to the demands of a consumer society.

Should the German "terrorist" have been executed.? Cant recall the exact details but wasnt there a gang called the Bader Meinhoff group who went on a killing spree. I think they should have been terminated . I definately believe they should not be released, a life sentence should mean just that.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 1:45:34 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL farglebargle
When *I* see a terrorist, or criminal, have no doubt that *I* will act as needed to defend myself, my family, my friends and neighbors in the Great State of New York.

To quote Macenroe...you cant be serious. The first you might know about a terrorists existance is when the debris from an explosion they had caused cut your leg off

Is the removal of a foreign tyranny justifiable, which I think was one of the reasons for the Iraqui invasion
quote:

 fargle said
I don't see that ( the removal) enumerated to be a Federal power in the Constitution or Amendments. Do you have a citation to support the hypothesis that that is a Constitutional authority?


Good point. I dont know enough about the constitution overall to answer it.
I only poked my nose in when what I thought in fact know to be spurious criticisms of the 5th amendment were made.



(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 4:31:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL farglebargle
When *I* see a terrorist, or criminal, have no doubt that *I* will act as needed to defend myself, my family, my friends and neighbors in the Great State of New York.

To quote Macenroe...you cant be serious. The first you might know about a terrorists existance is when the debris from an explosion they had caused cut your leg off


That is a necessary risk of living in Freedom and Liberty. *I* am brave enough to accept those risks. And *I* am not willing to give up *my* Freedom and Liberty because of other peoples lack of bravery.

quote:


Is the removal of a foreign tyranny justifiable, which I think was one of the reasons for the Iraqui invasion
quote:

fargle said
I don't see that ( the removal) enumerated to be a Federal power in the Constitution or Amendments. Do you have a citation to support the hypothesis that that is a Constitutional authority?


Good point. I dont know enough about the constitution overall to answer it.
I only poked my nose in when what I thought in fact know to be spurious criticisms of the 5th amendment were made.


http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Here you go. If it's not EXPLICITLY DELEGATED via that document, it is not a Federal Power.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 5:05:31 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Quite a lot to read Fargle but this is what I have found.

Presidential responsibility re US military action. Not specifically defined. He is designated Commander in Chief.
Congress shall vote on and authorise any US military action 
A joint resolution SJ 45 late 2002 did authorise action in Iraq
It seems to me therefore that the constitution was NOT violated over the Iraq invasion

I also found a section that says that the Congress, defined as the national House/Senate, shall have the power to raise taxes. Thats seems to knock one of RealOne's obsessions on the head. ie unconstitutionality of Federal income tax.

Have I killed two birds with one stone lol

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 5:13:02 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:


Presidential responsibility re US military action. Not specifically defined. He is designated Commander in Chief.


He is the commander in chief of the armies Congress raises, the Navy, and the Federalized Militia. And he can only use them for purposes Congress authorizes, supervises, and pays for.

When George Bush, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, et. al. didn't have Congressional approval, oversight, and funding for planning and early operations in Iraq, they used money they said was going to be used for other purposes to plan, prepare, and execute those operations.

FRAUD is what we call diverting money apportioned for other purposes for those combat operations.

UNTIL Bush went before Congress and obtained under false pretenses an AUMF against Iraq, he had no lawful means to do any of that. From about 9/11/2001 until March of 2003, Bush was cowboying. Using "Enron Accounting"

You point out that Congress must vote on any act. Well, for more than a year Bush was preparing for combat without that legitimacy, using money from other sources. That's Fraud, and Conspiracy to Commit. A violation of Federal Law, namely 18 USC 371.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/22/2007 5:14:04 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 10:21:10 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Fargle:
A contingency plan is just that. It does not constitute military action.
Had the congressional approval for military action not been forthcomng AND had Bush gone ahead anyway, then your point about the unconstitutionality of the Iraq invasion would have been true.

Whether fraud was involved in the expenditure on the forward planning, I dont know.
I rather doubt it.

What worried me when I "found" the points mentioned in my post 131 was that it was so straightforward I thought I might have missed something.
No doubt if I had you would have jumped me, instead you  changed the subject lol 

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 10:27:58 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		How did this turn into another Constitution/Iraq thread?

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 10:58:49 AM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		Got a bad president.
Death penalty.
 
Stole millions from the government, or still shafting the people while you rot away in a white collar prison, death penalty...

Kept the American people from getting aid like when the trailer homes wouldn't cross a simple bridge in new Orleans.
Only to be reused for white American's up north later on.
Shi# I would have shot that stupid retard in the head myself.

Put a racist KKK member in charge of an anti looting swat team in new orleans....
Have a African American shot in in the back wounded.
His retarded brother dead by his side.

Both shot at a distance and obviously in the back.
So its not probable that if you didn't find guns they were shooting at the police....

First of all if your stupid enough to put a racist fascist person like that a$$, Straight out of jail no less.
    Heres your sign....
Death penalty......However in this case no officers or officials were held responcible... Go figure....

So sure innocent people are on death row.
Its not like were missing any of the war fiends or criminals that really ruin the world......Oh wait.....Damn...

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 11:36:04 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

How did this turn into another Constitution/Iraq thread?


It's the zeitgeist...



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 11:39:06 AM   
sugarcandy


Posts: 96
Status: offline 		A link against.. http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=facts&menu=1%22


(in reply to MasDom)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 11:47:41 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Fargle:
A contingency plan is just that. It does not constitute military action.


We're not talking about contingency plans. We're talking about taking money Congress gave for Education and using it to pay for Doug Feith to sit in the Pentagon and make up whatever "Intel" suited the Bush Administrations conspiracy to defraud.

They did not have Congressional Approval. They Lied. That's a Crime.

Read the Constitution. IT says what the Federal Government is permitted. They are permitted to do NOTHING ELSE, including "Contingency Planning". If it was IMPORTANT and NECESSARY, they would have Amended the Constitution. It wasn't important enough for an Amendment, it's not the Feds fucking job.

There is no "IMPLIED". It's ALL there. If it's not Delegated, it's Reserved, Period.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Death Penalty - 2/22/2007 12:04:34 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny
How did this turn into another Constitution/Iraq thread?

Prestidigitation.
Try it, you'll never be the same again!

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Death Penalty - 2/23/2007 7:03:23 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Wulfchyld:
I thought the constitution made a pretty clear prohibition against corporal punishment in this country...but then as GWB has said "its just a goddamned piece of paper"
thompson


Wrong, with due process the U.S. governement can fuck you up the ass with a kitana, and it's legal.

Fifth Ammendment.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
 
 
 


subrob1967:
If you were to take a look at the 8th ammendment to the U.S. constitution you may find that it has a prohibition against katanas or anything else up ones ass.  The courts have consistantly found that flogging caining etc are cruel and unusual and shall not be appllied.
thompson

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 140
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