The American Culture

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LotusSong -> The American Culture (2/23/2007 7:44:20 PM)
What exactly IS the American culture? For those from other cultures.. what do you see as our "culture". I've been thinking about this and there is the American dream we strive for (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness for all, success, unity, generosity, freedom) Then there is the dark side: Every man for himself, get what you want regardless of the moral cost.then get some more, excess. win at all costs, money rules)

juliaoceania -> RE: The American Culture (2/23/2007 9:03:02 PM)
We are very much individualistic, meaning that we put importance on self determination and we put this above community standards. I think this is one way that we differ from many other cultures... some of them we are at war with. We value freedom of speech, and until you learn about how speech is suppressed elsewhere you really have no appreciation for saying what you want. The darkside, American corporate structure has corrupted us politically. Our people are very isolationist, myopic and ethnocentric. We tend not to see why others in the world are pissed off at us because we have zero clue about our government's involvement in widespread violence and turmoil.. we are ignorant about the world we live in.

meatcleaver -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 2:11:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong What exactly IS the American culture? For those from other cultures.. what do you see as our "culture". Despite having been accused of being anti-American on several occasions and I have to admit I don't like American politics nor American capitalism, I have tons of American culture in my apartment, mainly in the form of books, art prints and CDs. I could recite a whole list of novelists, poets, writers, artists and musicians that I enjoy. Chomsky, Mailer, Vidal, Collins, Pound, Plath, Glass, Kronos Kwartet, Reich, Adams, Vonnegut, Pynchon, Dylan, Hendrik, Pollack, Motherwell, Judd, Johns, etc. etc. the list is endless. However, despite it being such a big industry I'm not a fan of Hollywood films, I don't think America makes the best films and I think that is because films require teamwork and in an industry of super egos, there seems little teamwork to me. In a system of stars, how can a character be portraited by self promoting, preening narcissists? American individualism is what I love and hate about American culture. At its best it is spontaneous, creative and surprising, at its worse it is selfish, mean and bitter. American sports are pretty much irrelevent to none Americans because no one else plays them so I guess another negative about America is its love affair with itself, its off putting. I guess I like serious American culture, the popular stuff, well we have enough Euro-crap of our own.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 4:26:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong What exactly IS the American culture? For those from other cultures.. what do you see as our "culture". I've been thinking about this and there is the American dream we strive for (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness for all, success, unity, generosity, freedom) This thread should make interesting reading. I'm not being flippant here, but the values you mention are not specific to the US. The rest of the us are not chasing a life of slavery abruptly ended by murder. So, what, if anything, is specifically American? I'm genuinely interested to see how this unfolds? I'm scratching my head and diversity springs to mind. It could be argued that your diversity has its roots in British diversity, but the US has taken it to another level altogether.

subrob1967 -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 4:31:09 AM)
American culture is one of self determination, IMO. We as Americans want to do the best we can as individuals to provide for those we care about, and not for society at large. Most of us take personal responsibility for our actions, and don't rely on community, or government to take care of us, we prefer to go at it on our own. It is pop culture, rock and roll, hip hop, Miami Vice & Baywatch, McDonald's, and road trips. We are a culture of technological innovation, never standing still, always trying to make it better, faster, stronger. How we are perceived, IMO is another story... We are a violent gun culture, where everyone is out for themselves, screw everyone else, Imperialistic warmongers, controlled by greedy corporations, who only care about profits. America is a capitalistic democratic republic, and the socialists just don't get us, including our home grown ones.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 4:45:58 AM)
While I'm on, there's the issue of demanding the biggest, best and most high-tech of everything. If you have a rival in this area it is Japan. As a people, you appear to the untrained eye to be very consumer orientated and demand new gadgets which in turn drives an innovative product culture. As a point in case, Japanese and American gadgets are dumped on the European market long after they have been in circulation in their home countries (I'll offer this is the result of two very different cultures i.e. comparing Britain with the US. In Britain, we are youth culture obsessed - this centres around fashion, music and sport, but we're far less interested in high-tech gadgets). I do remember a thread on the US brands and a few posts to the effect that some of the products in the US are cheap rubbish, so the above could be the biggest generalisation since the greek royal asked an African statesman if "you people still throw spears over there".

Rule -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 4:48:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong What exactly IS the American culture? For those from other cultures.. what do you see as our "culture". I've been thinking about this and there is the American dream we strive for (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness for all, success, unity, generosity, freedom) Then there is the dark side: Every man for himself, get what you want regardless of the moral cost.then get some more, excess. win at all costs, money rules) It is inherently evil, destructive and ultimately self-destructive. What is uniquely American is the western, I suppose, the glorification of a culture that no longer exists.

meatcleaver -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 4:52:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Most of us take personal responsibility for our actions, and don't rely on community, or government to take care of us, we prefer to go at it on our own. Government might not take care of individual Americans but it does take care of corporate America which is what the American empire is all about and why American troops are in Iraq. This is one of the most baffling things about Amreican poatriotism, Americans are patriotic even though since the inception of the USA, the sole purpose of its government is the well being of the American establishment at the expense of ordinary Americans. Well I guess the American establishment was good at propaganda in 1776 and still is. quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 It is pop culture, rock and roll, hip hop, Miami Vice & Baywatch, McDonald's, and road trips. Rock and roll gets my vote but is hip hop really music? Miami Vice & Baywatch, McDonald's, thumbs down. Road trips, I loved the Beats and Kerouac's On The Road and Easy Rider made me pack my bags and travel. quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 We are a culture of technological innovation, never standing still, always trying to make it better, faster, stronger. This is not unique to the US, the industrial revolution started in Britain and I found Japan far more in advance as a technological society, though there is no denying American money and militarism does drive technology forward. quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 How we are perceived, IMO is another story... We are a violent gun culture, where everyone is out for themselves, screw everyone else, Imperialistic warmongers, controlled by greedy corporations, who only care about profits. America is a capitalistic democratic republic, and the socialists just don't get us, including our home grown ones. So true. I visit my brother pretty regular who lives in California and I can't get a hook on America. There are as many attractive things as not so attractive things. I can't work out why there is so much poverty in a society of so much wealth. My brother who loves the US said he keeps paying his British National Insurance and would return to Britain if he hit hard times or was seriously ill. He said the US is no place for losers, you are just stamped on and I repeat, he loves the place.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:07:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 American culture is one of self determination, IMO. We as Americans want to do the best we can as individuals to provide for those we care about, and not for society at large. Most of us take personal responsibility for our actions, and don't rely on community, or government to take care of us, we prefer to go at it on our own. This is an interesting post, but one relative to the rest of the world so I'll take a crack at it. I wouldn't disagree that Americans value self-determination and personal responsibility, but I would guard against making the assumption that the rest of the world doesn't value these core attributes. There is a certain level of misunderstanding here, which is natural due to cultural reasons. I don't think your post is unique to the US. I value personal responsibility as much as anyone and self-determination more than most. I think we simply have a different view of how these things are achieved. For example, IMO, providing for those we care about most can only be achieved if we account for the environment. Unless you're prepared to build a fence around your house with machine guns to keep the world out, the world will encroach on our ability to keep our families safe. This is why Europeans have respect for the rule of law - it is an attempt to manage the outside world while maintaining our civil liberties and personal space. I personally "do not need the government to take care of me", but what I do need the government to do is manage the rest of society so when I'm down the pub enjoying a beer with my mates, the bloke down the street is not breaking into my house raping my wife or murdering my kids. It doesn't matter how much we say we go it alone, the reality is we all need help - in terms of law, justice, education etc. At some point in our lives we have all benefitted from government programmes. In my book, the best way to look after my family is maintaining my freedom and civil liberties while helping to create a society that manages the outside world - if everyone is running wild, sooner or later someone within your family will face the consequences. SubRob, from your post, I think it's you who doesn't understand the outside world rather than the outside world not understanding you. For example, "the socialists don't get us" - the ironic statement of the century. Back on topic, it'll be interesting ro read how Americans view their country in relation to the rest of the world.

MrLane -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:09:45 AM)
I have tried to stay out of politics since joining Collarme, but I just cant resist...this post caught my eye: quote: We are a culture of technological innovation, never standing still, always trying to make it better, faster, stronger. Faster and stronger, maybe, but when it comes to innovation, the United States has always been a laggard and slow to change. Differerent nations have always been good at different things: the US has been the master of mass industrialization, economies of scale, turning things out in huge numbers for as low a cost as possible...the Second World War was largely won because of US industrial might. Of course, turning things out in large numbers does not mean its good stuff...or innovative: The P-51 Mustang was nothing until the Brittish fitted it with with the delicately engineered Merlin engine...and none of the US fighters were as sophisticated as the Germans...but in the end, war is won in numbers and not silver bullets. Even at the end of the Cold War, the Soviets had the technological upper hand, but not the $$$ to provide the numbers. The US grew on the strength and scale of its industry, not so much on technological innovation...look at US cars...large, subsidized and inefficient: Asian and European cars on the other hand are far more efficient and reliable. This is laregly a by product of the US enjoying cheap oil prices. Now that China is rising as an industrial power, the US finds itself gaining a great debt (but you are not the only ones!) because its loosing its traditional money earning base. As an Australian, my feelings on the US are mixed, but I am generally distrusting. I believe in strengthing trade relations, because free trade is good for everyone on the whole, but I dont want closer social and security ties. The legal, education and medical systems in the US are not ones that I wish to see here, and I also dislike greater influence by the US media. Unfortunatly our goverments are very chummy at the moment, and I fear we are moving in the wrong direction. I place much more value on a community driven lifestyle than an individualistic one. Of course, living in an individualisic, consumer driven world has its disadvantages...and it remains to be seen how long it can economically and environmentally be sustained. As my grandfather used to say though: like them or not, if it wasnt for the US, the world would have been taken over by Communisim...and he was right.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:20:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 How we are perceived, IMO is another story... We are a violent gun culture, where everyone is out for themselves, screw everyone else, Imperialistic warmongers, controlled by greedy corporations, who only care about profits. I'll disagree with this, too. There will always be people who resort to lazy stereotypes, but I think you're stretching it to suggest this is the norm. In truth, speaking from experience, 99.9% of Britons couldn't give a flying one about what is going on in the US, with the exception of the music and films you are producing. The problem is, most of us are aware of US foreign policy and some jump to the conclusion that US foreign policy = US people, which is blatantly a lazy assumption to make - this is far from the norm however. I'll throw in a cheeky one and suggest that the neo-conservatives amongst you adopt this defensive approach in an attempt to add weight to their actions i.e. "it's not us, it's them - they just don't get us, if they understood us they'd agree with our government's actions".

meatcleaver -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:24:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrLane The US grew on the strength and scale of its industry, not so much on technological innovation...look at US cars...large, subsidized and inefficient: Asian and European cars on the other hand are far more efficient and reliable. Having driven American cars in the US, you need straight roads to drive them on, they roll so much and feel wallowy around corners, almost boat like, I wouldn't like to drive one on European roads. They're interiors are cheap and feel it but then they are cheap to buy so get what you pay for. American imports into Europe are scarce and for this reason, they are made for American roads and American customers, the makers haven't considered export potential in their designs. Thinking about export potential, 99% of American vehicles would be banned from driving on Chinese roads because they are too polluting, this will also be true in Europe soon if the EU has its way. (The Germans are also going to have a problem with this too so its not anti_American protectionism)

missturbation -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:34:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong What exactly IS the American culture? For those from other cultures.. what do you see as our "culture". I've been thinking about this and there is the American dream we strive for (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness for alll, success, unity, generosity, freedom) Then there is the dark side: Every man for himself, get what you want regardless of the moral cost.then get some more, excess. win at all costs, money rules) I haven't got the time at the moment to think about this one properly. I'll get back to it later. My only comment at the moment is that the statements i have underlined are a complete contradiction. How can you pursue happiness for all yet have the attitude 'every man for himself.' It doesnt work and it doesnt fit.

rrsierramist -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:35:38 AM)
The American culture isn't about what we wear, eat, watch, drive.....it's about the spirit of understanding that what we take for granted sometimes is still the one thing that we will die for. Freedom. So the real question isn't ,What is the Amercian culture?'....it's 'what is freedom?' And BTW....I've been to several other countries....and believe me most people move around in 'busy' mode just as much over 'there' as they do over 'here'.

missturbation -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:37:59 AM)
Whether its culture or freedom it still involves things such as what you eat, wear and drink. How would you feel if rock n roll for example was made illegal or your favourite food. Its an infringement on your freedom.

caitlyn -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 5:45:48 AM)
The United States is a Western European country, grown too large, too strong, too influential ... too fast.

SirDominic -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:07:05 AM)
We need to clarify our terms to start. Culture can mean our arts, technologies, etc. I don't think that was what the OP was talking about. They were talking more about the anthropological definition: "the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another." I'm not sure there is one simple answer to this question. There is no one American culture. This country is so large, so diverse, that it is almost impossible to make any blanket statements. The American culture of someone in California is a completely different reality from that of someone living in Mississippi. I think a lot of people from other countries see our culture through the actions of our government, which is a very poor illustration of who we are as a people. Most countries don't like America right now, because of our foreign policies (and rightly so). More and more Americans are finally waking up to this reality, too. We are driven by money, but that is hardly just an American ill. Money rules the world, and the only people who don't care about getting it and keeping it are those who have none at all. Yea, that is a sweeping generalization, and yes there are exceptions. But the exceptions are rare. I don't like to answer questions with "there is no answer", so I will ponder this some more while at work today. Namaste, Sir Dominic

Vendaval -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:07:35 AM)
I am fond of saying that the US is a gigantic experiment. We have people here from every continent, country and most cultures in the world. Much of the time our civic society stays civilized and humane. At this time, our goals, vision and leaders are clouded with fear and deception.

NorthernGent -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:10:05 AM)
Rock and roll, fair comment. Swept the world and still going strong. My mum often talks about this and gets all starry-eyed about it. I could recite the story in my sleep. She was listening to music on Radio Luxembourg (1955) and Elvis came on (Jailhouse Rock). According to my mum, it was a completely new sound and just exploded here. He never played in England though - something to do with his agent. I think all the British girls appreciated a break from some bloke singing about tea and the weather in a voice to rival the queen's. Livened things up is an understatement. I did watch a documentary once and the bloke was banned from shaking his hips - "burn in hell, satan" - or something like that. Seems a touch on the harsh side, if you ask me.

Vendaval -> RE: The American Culture (2/24/2007 6:42:19 AM)
Yes, Elvis performed on The Ed Sullivan Show and the camera operators were specifically instructed to keep the cameras pointed above his waistline. Plenty of preachers in that era proclaimed that Rock n Roll was the devil's music. I sent to parochial school by my family in the 1970's, the preachers were still saying the same thing. One school I attended threw out and/or burnt books and records deemed objectionable. I rescued an entire set of "The Narnia Chroncles" by C.S. Lewis from the trash. The whole set was tossed because of a quote in one book where one character tells another, "Don't be an ass!" Well, even at that tender age I knew that "ass" in that instance meant jack-ass, in other words, do not be a stubborn, obstinate, foolish person.

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