RE: Are submissives weak? (Full Version)

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PseudableAllonym -> RE: Are submissives weak? (3/14/2007 4:51:52 AM)

I know that I haven't got the balls or the psychological make-up to do what they [submissives] do. I like (and am comfortable) being in control way too much to hand over the reins.

Though, I personally feel that everyone submits to someone or something at some point.

If you work for someone... you submit to whatever guidelines and rules they have in place. Or you get your ass canned.
If you are your own boss and own your own company... you submit to Uncle Sam and ante up when the IRS comes a knockin'.
And if you're a lazy, unmotivated slob I'd guess you're submitting to your inner sloth.

That notion as merely an aside, I respect those who submit to me. I honor those who honor me. Omitting the kink and sexual aspects (humiliation play, etc., because I may want to refer to her/him at times as "my eager little cumslut") I find that the position is one that ought to be enviable by other submissives, held in high regard by anyone I consider to be in the know.

I want my property taking pride in his or her position. And I don't see anything shameful or dehumanizing about the way I choose to define my counterpart's role. And they would view the position in much the same way or a relationship simply would not work out. I'll not have her/him feeling as though s/he is worthless, less than human or undeserving of respect. I don't want broken down goods. I'd no sooner buy a lamp that didn't work.

I think it takes a weak person to tear someone down for their consensual, adult lifestyle choices. I submit, no pun intended, that a person who would mock or rip apart a submissive whose gender parallels their own is deeply afraid of something.

Perhaps they've had impulses. And the impulses terrify the hell out of them. Or maybe they feel that in accepting that some males/females are submissive than other people might look at them and wonder, "Gee... maybe..."

But who gives a flying fig if someone jumps the gun and reaches the wrong conclusion? Do I care that Joe Blow thinks A, B, C and X, Y and Z about the dynamics of a relationship that he has no part or say in? Fuck no!

And to hell with anyone who might make assumptions in the first place. To hell with anyone who feels the need to stick their nose into another's personal business. To them I say... Sod off.



KnightofMists -> RE: Are submissives weak? (3/14/2007 5:26:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

There seems to be a common belief that
1) you male Master/Dom/Tops think male submissives are weak
and so
2) you would be ashamed to admit if you actually tried - and god forbid enjoyed -  submitting to a woman.

Are these assumptions about your antipathy towards your submissive brethren fair?

Over the last 10 years, my submissive males  have all been powerful and/or adventurous "high fliers" - several lawyers, several CEOs, a soldier, two paramedics and a heart surgeon. They were all completely confident in their own masculine identity and sexual orientation.  They all wanted to be owned, used and abused (SSC of course) by a strong, beautiful* woman. They were not afraid of committed monogamous relationships.  Most of them were almighty pain sluts too.

None of this was weak or pathetic IME.  I would not date a doormat.  Submitting to female domination  takes guts and determination (and a huge appetite for kink)

So why do people think Dominant males disrespect submissive males?  Do you? 


* beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder of course. 


This has as much value as a generalization as Dominant females are just submissives waiting for the right Dominant Male to take them.

both are bullshit

people respect people and people disrespect people for a variety of reasons.  Don't thing there is any value in trying to make stupid generalizations.



RexLongBeach -> RE: Are submissives weak? (3/14/2007 8:06:00 PM)

What's interesting is that not a single soul is on here defending the point of view that male submissives are weak. Based on these responses, we'd conclude the view is just not out there anywhere, anymore.

Somehow, I don't think so. Perhaps it's one of those things whispered privately to those who share the viewpoint.

Hmmm... perhaps you should have posted in the Gorean forum?

:)



RWAble -> RE: Are submissives weak? (3/14/2007 8:13:45 PM)

To give in a way most don't understand or except, is strength. Most people look at male subs as game players. Most are! To be what you are and feel comfort in that; who cares what the rest of the world thinks. You don't have to live in a lifestyle world to be submissive. It's an everyday thing. We live it and it is all of what we are. For those who don't understand. OH Well.



RowanJ -> RE: Are submissives weak? (3/14/2007 10:51:07 PM)

I am a previously-owned submissive with fifteen years' experience in martial arts, have been teaching for over six years now, and often fight in tournaments.  And I know I'm not the only sub like myself.  Submission is psychological.  And I've found that some masters actually prefer strength in their slaves/subs, as we can be very protective. 



closer -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 5:09:03 AM)

No doubt, there are weak subs, and likewise, there are weak Dominants.

Weak wouldnt be a word i would ever use to describe myself either a sub or as a man.



RRafe -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 7:54:10 AM)

I tried subbing many years ago-I didn't enjoy it. Total turn off.

Do I think male subs are weak? Not as a class. Many weak people hide behind masks. Roles matter very little in shirking you own internal work. You do it-or you do not.

There is no try.

And really? I don't care-but I am not going to let anyone get involved with me-who will drag me down to thier level. That's my definition of strong-ones adds and builds,rather than takes away-and tears down.

Creation is strong.

Destruction is weak.



Kana -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 8:45:04 AM)

quote:

don't care-but I am not going to let anyone get involved with me-who will drag me down to thier level. That's my definition of strong-ones adds and builds,rather than takes away-and tears down.

Creation is strong.

Destruction is weak.


Point right on. I like strong submissives/slaves. The best ones I have had have strength of character. It takes a lot of fortitude to completely give of oneself, to put yourself out there and really let go. Most people don't have that capacity. I find it an admirable, and attractive trait.

Who wants a submissive they can run ramshod over? Not me, it would get boring quickly.



RRafe -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 8:46:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

don't care-but I am not going to let anyone get involved with me-who will drag me down to thier level. That's my definition of strong-ones adds and builds,rather than takes away-and tears down.

Creation is strong.

Destruction is weak.


Point right on. I like strong submissives/slaves. The best ones I have had have strength of character. It takes a lot of fortitude to completely give of oneself, to put yourself out there and really let go. Most people don't have that capacity. I find it an admirable, and attractive trait.

Who wants a submissive they can run ramshod over? Not me, it would get boring quickly.



I prefer topping collaborators-not victims.[;)]



chellekitty -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 8:58:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe
I prefer topping collaborators-not victims.[;)]


i like hot fudge and caramel and chopped pecans and whipped cream and extra cherries... [:D]



LadyPact -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 9:04:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

There seems to be a common belief that
1) you male Master/Dom/Tops think male submissives are weak
and so
2) you would be ashamed to admit if you actually tried - and god forbid enjoyed -  submitting to a woman.

Are these assumptions about your antipathy towards your submissive brethren fair?

Over the last 10 years, my submissive males  have all been powerful and/or adventurous "high fliers" - several lawyers, several CEOs, a soldier, two paramedics and a heart surgeon. They were all completely confident in their own masculine identity and sexual orientation.  They all wanted to be owned, used and abused (SSC of course) by a strong, beautiful* woman. They were not afraid of committed monogamous relationships.  Most of them were almighty pain sluts too.

None of this was weak or pathetic IME.  I would not date a doormat.  Submitting to female domination  takes guts and determination (and a huge appetite for kink)

So why do people think Dominant males disrespect submissive males?  Do you? 


* beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder of course. 


While it was the most recent reply that caught My attention to this on the scroll (and I may have answered prior), I couldn't help but pay this some attention.
 
Personally, I don't happen to think submissives of either gender are weak.  I often wonder if people realize the strength it takes to have the capacity to be a submissive in these times.  It is a specific decision to follow one's true orientation, and as anyone who has to go against the politically correct tide will tell you, that takes some doing.
 
In My eyes, My current submissive is strong in areas that I could never be.  Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally.  I highly doubt I would do well on combat lines, or many of the other things he's done.  While I would never ask anyone to be as strong as he has at points in his life, I see him with My eyes and realize his strengths. 
 
Just some ramblings on a Tuesday afternoon.



Kana -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 11:29:56 AM)

Yep Rrafe, it takes two to tango. I like the word choice-collaborators- it has lovely connotations attached to it. Victims piss me off, but then again so do weak people. There is a reason I find women in business suits so sexy, I like taking their power away.



Vanatru -> RE: Are submissives weak? (10/23/2007 1:32:16 PM)

ok, first off, do I feel jealousy, think they are weak, or anything in general about male submissives where I'd want to be in their situation: no, I have always been dominant and sincerely enjoy being in that position. For me, it's not about playing a role, it's about who I am. Nor is my dominance about having to be in control, as in, fear of loosing control to someone else, or anger from not being in control from some experience in the past (which are motivating factors to some that seek a dominant position). I simply find no interest and am not comfortable in being the object of someone else's dominance; whether in bed, or at work, etc.

from talking to several female dominants over time, a number have expressed dismay at how many of the guys calling themselves a submissive are just using it as an angle for sex. So, for that type, I scoff at their sincerity when I run across them.

Growing up, I was told there were expectations of me as a man: to be strong, have integrity, and honor. So the other type of male I see that is sniveling, cringing, and apologetic/hateful of being a man; I actually DO find myself revulsed by, but such men are not limited to the BDSM/lifestyle arena.



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