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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 5:32:50 AM

bludemonn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I used to play with a Ouiji board when younger and with an Aunt who was sensitive. I saw some unnerving things and I will never touch or allow a Ouiji board in my house...ever. Certain things shouldn't be fucked with when one doesn't know what they're doing. Stuff like this makes me very uncomfortable.
On the flip side and much more positive note...I feel the presense of my mom a lot and that brings me a lot of comfort.

Did you find these things unnerving because you simply didn't know what was happening or was it to do with what you were brought up to believe?

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 5:41:30 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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That's the thing about the "occult". No one really knows what they're doing.

If you get into a darker side of things you're delving into a realm involving lust for power more than balance and caring about others, to the exclusion of all else. The possibility of evil becomes greater and a system of checks and balances loses efficacy. And one thing I can tell you about those that claim they have a dark power is that they rarely, rarely know what they're dabbling in, and never, ever know how deep it runs. After all, there's a reason it's called the paranormal and the occult. Occult literally means "hidden", and if we fully understood the paranormal it would just be "the normal."

As for personal experience, I'll suffice to say I've dabbled where I shouldn't have. We were all young and stupid once. Fortunately I grew up.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 5:43:29 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC
One thing to remember though is spirits can't physically harm you.

According to what? There are different types of spirits in the world. Not all used to be human, and not all have merely human capabilities. It's been my experience that when something that was never human comes into play its capabilities are very drastically enhanced from that of a normal spirit. They're not even really the same thing.

Edited to add: They can't tug you around? Tell that to whatever mean little shit pulled my hair when I was alone in my house standing in my bathroom a few months ago.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 3/7/2007 5:48:48 AM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:08:03 AM

bludemonn

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Again i think they are no set rules for these things, the idea or Evil of Good is subjective, whats good for you maybe harmful to another and so this is a perception. Communication with the dead is a very regular occurance and sometimes they make themselves appear without being invited. One thing for sure is that cloaking the paranormal or the Occult with ficticious unsubstantiated stories really won't help when we need to understand what is happening, we know we can open up portals to other dimentions that much is documented we know there is knowledge of how to close them. Infact some cults and spiritual groups use conjuring rituals to aid them with knowledge and guard against ills, sea farers used to enlist sea Witches to ensure they had fair weahther upon journeys, they would cast spells and rituals to their particular deities. There are rules pertaining to the calling of the dead and many of these rules just simply demand respect rather than the power aspect i.e. 'i command you in the name of god' etc

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:15:37 AM

NakedOnMyChain

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Of course. This is all subjective. I gave you my personal view. However, you're delving very far into the realm of religion and not occult. But then we'd have to argue semantics about what occult is. Then I'd have to argue about Christianity counting as occult, since ancient religions do. And it would be ugly, drawn-out, and tedious. So let's not.

I'll be the first to agree that fictitious stories are not what is needed.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:26:40 AM

bludemonn

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Well interesting you brought religion and the occult up as they are very very closely linked, Christianity has been responsible for many workings on the Occult with their own grimoires and its the hierachy of Christianity that has contributed more to the working of the Occult than anything, even with using things such as the Rituale Romanum many people turn to the Holy bible in times of paranormal or Occult delving, it was they who 'demonised' certain God/Goddesses and indeed perpetuated several well known myths one of which relates to the beast. Anything that involves faith has a darker side even the supposedly whiter than white Catholic church (we all know they have the blackest side even Satanists would shudder at the histories of the Catholic church)

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:33:25 AM

MsParados

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC

He only started excisted in later times when Christian preists needed to find something to make pagan gods seem evil.

It is funny how none of these extreme stories of spirits didn't come to exsist until after the Catholic reign.

I am sorry but that is incorrect, if you study primitive tribes in Africa, South America and Asia you will find the ideas of demons and possesion has exsisted far longer than the begining of the Catholic Church. I have studies theology, demonology, mythology, paranormal energy/activities and religion for at least 12 years. That doesn't make me an expert but I do know a thing or two. You are correct that the popular conception of Satan was created in our time but it wasn't created out of thin air.
Some spirits can indeed hurt you, even if you think they have no power over you.... I think they are called elementals.
I have seen and summoned more than my far share of spirits and while yes some can not physically harm you that does not mean they do not excersise their powers in other ways that the person may not even be aware of the effect.
edited to add: and this is coming from a proclaimed Catholic that was at one time a practising Satanist that lead a coven for several years...

< Message edited by MsParados -- 3/7/2007 6:38:53 AM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:50:24 AM

bludemonn

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One thing i actually find quite scarey, if you ever look on yahoo groups under subjects such as witch craft or the occult you find so many young people who are starry eyed about the subject and its very rich histories and they are genuinely trying to find some answers to things they have experienced or felt, then you see the advice or rather the kind of information they have access to, not so well thought out ways of 'how to summon stuff', its bordering on the 'buffy the vampire slayer' or 'charmed' and its VERY silly to offer young people with an interest ways in which to play with things they themselves don't understand or grasp. Remember this, EVERY unique experience is person specific, by the laws of nature it has to be, what works for you may have dire consequnces to others. I believe paranormal, supernatural and spiritual activity has more to do with the mind of the individual and his/her personal belief which is in itself un-copied by another living being. Energies and beliefs are the fuels which drive us in our world, my own personal take on it mind you.

What inspired me to write this thread is even with the HUGE amount of historic knowledge about these phenomena people are still so uninformed that they wearily start meddling not just with things they dont know but with their own psyches, once you cross the line between what you THOUGHT was real and what you cant explain you are in a terrible place, sometimes people cant ever come back.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:52:58 AM

StellaByStarlite

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<eyes the can of worms>

Heh.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 6:55:38 AM

bludemonn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

<eyes the can of worms>

Heh.

No can of worms here, this is just a thread not one of those 'im right and your wrong' thingies lol chill out and tell us of your experiences.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:02:12 AM

MsParados

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Oh I agree whole heartedly that the amount of information out there is vast and in unexperience hands dangerous, but we all start out unexperienced thats life. Sometimes regardless of how much we know or think we know there are forces out there more powerful than ourselvs and I don't care who you are. To say ALL spirits can not harm you would be a lie but then you have to figure out what the definition of spirit is..... Channeling the spirit of a departed relative vs summoning a primitve deity or angelic being is quiet another. One should never bite off more than they can chew, no matter how big their mouth is.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:17:25 AM

bludemonn

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Wise words ofcourse it dosent help when the media like to make this type of thing out to be what it really isn't, now we have a show called the dresden files which is how a Wizard helps the police! People will be running out buying their 'how to be a wizard in three easy steps' books before long....

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:21:55 AM

bearincuffs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

Anyways back to the thread topic, has anyone RELEVANT to this thread got any stories of dabblings which ended either good or bad? I'm very keen to learn more about people who play with the dark tabboo side of the Occult.

I'm not sure this will be any help but thought I'd share anyways. My fasicination with most things dealing with the occult has led me to dabble into what other's refer to as the dark areas of the Occult.
Which is how it led me to converting over to Paganism several years ago. I do own several books containing spells and at one time own an Ouiji board. Often my sister and myself would "play" with the board in hopes of something "supernatural" would happen but our attempts proved fruitless. I do own 2 sets of rune stones and also own a deck of Tarot cards and a deck of Oracle cards and use them when the urge hits. s of yet, I haven't had any negative experiences from dabbling with such and never had.
I had been warned by people who are extremely serious on this, saying I should not be dabbling with forces I'm not fully equiped to manage, yet sofar I haven't had any backlash, so to speak. Maybe I've just been very lucky or my spirit animal has guarded me. Over the years I have tried several different spells, what some may deem minor, such as placing a broom in the corner of the room to make unwanted human guest leave. Or using candle magik and a photo of someone who I didn't like, I tried to cast a spell to make that person either go away or be physically ill. In the end my efforts failed which may have been a blessing in disguise though I will never know for sure, or it could've been my own inexperience in spell casting. As I learned more about the Craft, I came to realize that I prefer to gain more knowledge in the Occult and related areas for my own spiritual growth .

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:27:41 AM

StellaByStarlite

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Hello. =)

No.. I won't give in to my skeptical tendencies here. =) It would drag the thread way off track and get people angry. Besides, I hold to Spinoza's edict: " I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them. "

As much as I love skeptical debate about this kind of stuff, many people are incredibly emotionally attached to the belief in the paranormal. I'm a rationalist, but I'm a human being first who doesn't like to upset others. =) And you seem like a pretty nice guy. =)

Cheers,
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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:29:53 AM

fergus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyC

Sorry for the mistake, but then lets remember this is TV. To many of my friends and i myself have delt with too many goasts, and know that mind setting is everything. If you believe it can happen, you have given that thing power enough to do it. I have a hard time believing that saying the lords prayer backwards is going to bring the devil since too many people in society don't even believe in a devil. He only started excisted in later times when Christian preists needed to find something to make pagan gods seem evil.

It is funny how none of these extreme stories of spirits didn't come to exsist until after the Catholic reign.

You CAN'T have read any pre-Christian Irish/Celtic mythology where ghosts and otherworldy spirits are fairly common. Off the top of my head, Bricriu's Feast from the Ulster Cycle had Cu Chulainn wrestling with evil spirits all night in one of the contests laid out for him.

fergus

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:40:09 AM

MsParados

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So then Stella, you have never had an experience that you could not rationalize away? never seen, smelt, or felt a presence that was not of this world or transended our concepts of rational explaination?

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:42:44 AM

bearincuffs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsParados

Oh I agree whole heartedly that the amount of information out there is vast and in unexperience hands dangerous, but we all start out unexperienced thats life. Sometimes regardless of how much we know or think we know there are forces out there more powerful than ourselvs and I don't care who you are. To say ALL spirits can not harm you would be a lie but then you have to figure out what the definition of spirit is..... Channeling the spirit of a departed relative vs summoning a primitve deity or angelic being is quiet another. One should never bite off more than they can chew, no matter how big their mouth is.

To take this point one step further, one could define a spirit or an angel or a ghost simply as a form of energy. I think using this definition maybe be easier to comprehend for some people, at least that is how I personally define a spirit.
Yes I do agree there is a vast amount of knowledge out there and the trick is to sort through the "fluff" to reach the more sensible information. One does need to know what they are doing before working with this energy. But being human, many do take on more then they are able to handle and suffer the consequences and others are more sensible and take on what they know they are able to handle.

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An it harm none, do as thou wilt
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An it harm none, do what thou will
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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:45:56 AM

StellaByStarlite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsParados

So then Stella, you have never had an experience that you could not rationalize away? never seen, smelt, or felt a presence that was not of this world or transended our concepts of rational explaination?

Well, unexplained doesn't automatically mean inexplicable. If that were the case, we'd still be in the Dark Ages. I've certainly had experiences that were unexplained at the time, but unexplained is just that.... unexplained.

I wouldn't jump directly jump to a supernatural/paranormal reason for anything, I'd think critically and do some research first. And it works, really. I've done a ton of reading on critical thinking, logical fallacies and scientific methodology. You'd be surprised at how flawed human reasoning is, left to it's own devices.

Cheers,
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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:53:21 AM

bludemonn

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I liked your experiences with the Occult Bear, it does give insight into the inner workings of the human mind, its actions and its interpretations, you spoke of Rune stones and Tarot cards, these forms of divination are quite common place in the mystical world and divination actually still hold true in modern times, we all at some stage have done something for luck or done things as a way to show us if we are on the right road so to speak, alot of this is born or basic human nature. One thing I appreciate about your take on this subject is you were honest, you played with spells and they didnt work, some people who choose to partake in these arts will clutch as anything as a sign of it working and substantiating what they have done, also interesting point made by fergus, i did say on a former post that if you care to read into Catholic histories you will find then thoroughly entrenched in the occult contrary to what many choose to believe.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 7:53:27 AM

MsParados

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So then the answer to my question would be no...... you have never been in a situation where you could not logically explain away the occurence. That could just be a reflection on the types of situation you find yourself in and not proof that the paranormal doesn't have any credibility.... Ever watch Taps?

Thats exactly what it all is Bear, energy, so thats not just your opinion :) - it has been proven that when these things occur, energy is drawn together and released within the surrounding environment.

< Message edited by MsParados -- 3/7/2007 8:00:43 AM >

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