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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 8:08:47 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		I have had experiences that were unexplained at the time, yes. But as I got older and learned more about logic and human thought patterns, I also learned the skill of climbing out of my own self-deception.

If I had an experience that was unexplained NOW, I wouldn't judge it as being supernatural, no.

Cheers,
Stella

And no, I've never seen Taps. =)

< Message edited by StellaByStarlite -- 3/7/2007 8:09:46 AM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 8:43:17 AM   
bludemonn


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Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		I think with something that dosent have a scientific take on it and something that is wholly left to interpretation you have to be careful when saying that anything in the occult has been proven, cos that would be a lie lol Energies have been known to be measured during paranormal activity and then again they have proved false upon other phenomena, remember also we may exist in energy but that dosent mean the driving force behind the 'ghost' is just energy and dosent have more underlying values. That would just make it seem as though you were playing with a natural element which your not, in fact everyone has a different meaning to what the other forces do.



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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 8:49:01 AM   
MsParados


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Status: offline 		OMG! ya'll have to check it out, it's a show on the scifi channel where these men go and scientifically prove or disprove haunting and paranormal activities. Really amasing stuff. Not the chicken bone/ goats blood proof but real data. Show is called Ghost Hunters.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 9:17:56 AM   
bludemonn


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Status: offline 		Hate to burst your bubble but that show like many others is not provable atall, yes some emf meters do detect electrical activity but like i said before it dosent always work therefore its not FACT lol, parapsychologists and modern day ghost hunters try to use these devices to locate presences where usually mediums or psychics can naturally detect. Using the term energy is a very logical attitude to have and yes i am very aware of the data these people use but so far all they have achieved is 'some' presences deduced from emf meters, heat sensors and video/sound equipment, it's not accurate and hardly proves a certain type of energy is present when apparitions occur, but yes i do find this stuff fascinating too   

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 12:08:42 PM   
MsParados


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Status: offline 		I'm sorry but catching video and heat images of these energies kinda removes some of that old black magic from it. While it may not always work or be able to tell you what kinda of force you are dealing with it is the best we have now. Sure as hell is more credible than astro writting, ouija or any of those other mediums that can be contamenated by the person claiming that skill or ability.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 12:13:24 PM   
StellaByStarlite


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Status: offline 		Hi!

Haha, I leave for a few hours and it's still going on. =) Cool.

Look, when it comes to understanding the world, I just trust science as a method more then anything else. It's not perfect, to be sure, but it delivers the goods, yo =)

Stella

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 1:34:57 PM   
CrazyC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fergus

[

You CAN'T have read any pre-Christian Irish/Celtic mythology where ghosts and otherworldy spirits are fairly common.  Off the top of my head, Bricriu's Feast from the Ulster Cycle had Cu Chulainn wrestling with evil spirits all night in one of the contests laid out for him.

fergus


My study has been mostly in celtic studies, and need to be noted that many of the celtic stories were christianised. Just from what you are telling me, is a story of a man who had to go through lessons to accomplish something. Personal thought...and trust me, not factual, but i wonder if these "evil" spirits were more those things within himself that he has to wrestle that were brought to him though those from the underworld.

Please read my posts before hanging on one statement. I have mentioned a couple of times where i have been visited by gousts. I never ment they don't exsist. I ment that much of what people are scared of, or are saying are from seeing too much crap on TV or movies.

As for Satan, I know some history too. Who we now know as Satan, are christian versions of pagan gods. Be it...Loki, Pan, Cernnonus (sp?) ect. Many of these gods were gods of chaos, which even among the pagans/ heathens were gods not to mess with. Is there actually an african God named satan or a version of this, so it is exactly the same thing? I would love to know, since it is something i love to study.

< Message edited by CrazyC -- 3/7/2007 1:44:06 PM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 2:03:23 PM   
GeekyGirl


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Status: offline 		I've dabbled in the occult for about 6 years , but have always been very careful and never had any negative repercussions.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 2:08:58 PM   
MsParados


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Status: offline 		Sorry I thought in the post I quoted of yours that you were impling that all the stories of negetive spirits were creatred by the Christan establishment. The name satan is Hebrew for "Accuser" which is how Lucifer got that title because of his accusation against Gods plan. While some of the pagan deities have been given satanic status during the forced conversion of those lands, Satan as we know him was created in popular culture with paintings and books. Most of the information people have about Satan are not really based on any relgious texts. Even the Church of Satan, doesn't worship the christan concept of Satan.

< Message edited by MsParados -- 3/7/2007 2:13:40 PM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 2:18:32 PM   
MisterPhister


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Status: offline 		I think people tend to get cause and effect mixed up in the realm of the Law of Large Numbers.
That and there is a very human trait to believe in ...... well........SOMEthing

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 2:21:32 PM   
MisterPhister


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

I have had experiences that were unexplained at the time, yes. But as I got older and learned more about logic and human thought patterns, I also learned the skill of climbing out of my own self-deception.

If I had an experience that was unexplained NOW, I wouldn't judge it as being supernatural, no.

I'm in your corner, Stella

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 2:26:33 PM   
MsParados


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Status: offline 		Sorry but I suffer from an inhuman amount of faith, which I recieved after more than a few extreme experiences that are not explained by any logical reason. It's one of those dual blessing/ curse things.... could be the gypsy in me or that creative spirit but I think dissecting all of existance would be a boring way to go. There is so much out there that can not be explained away, so many things our small minds do not grasp, I guess for some that makes them uncomfortable being outside their realm of what is familiar.

< Message edited by MsParados -- 3/7/2007 2:30:22 PM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 3:31:32 PM   
bludemonn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsParados

I'm sorry but catching video and heat images of these energies kinda removes some of that old black magic from it. While it may not always work or be able to tell you what kinda of force you are dealing with it is the best we have now. Sure as hell is more credible than astro writting, ouija or any of those other mediums that can be contamenated by the person claiming that skill or ability.


Well a few points here, ofcourse you have your opinion and i applaud that, if thermal imaging helps you feel better about ghosts then so be it, like i said unfortunately there are instances when ghost scientists shit their pants and run off, even mediums and Pychics are sometimes not welcome, also i wouldnt say that scientific discovery or rather the use of technology in the pusuit of the paranormal make it more credible than older methods, these methods are still used for a reason and generally older tried and tested methods atleast have some dialogue and history whereas new methods in the cold light of day do not harvest the desired effect. One aspect which is still used in contacting spirits is the meditation effect, everything seems to exist in a state of mind rather than just asking 'is there anybody there' this could point to either hyper suggestibility or indeed a necessary state of being in order to communicate, so far its these experiments that have not been taken forward. True there are alot of Psychic fakes out there and they are cashing in on peoples misery using old psychological techniques such as the barnum effect (generalising in order to get a response) but we shouldnt discount this stuff just cos we don't seem to have the same 'gift'. 

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 3:32:52 PM   
bludemonn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

I've dabbled in the occult for about 6 years , but have always been very careful and never had any negative repercussions.


Hi Geek, i'd like to know what type of activities you have been getting into and what made you start dabbling.

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 8:32:41 PM   
MsParados


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Status: offline 		edited a little cause that first paragraph has no breaks.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsParados

I'm sorry but catching video and heat images of these energies kinda removes some of that old black magic from it. While it may not always work or be able to tell you what kinda of force you are dealing with it is the best we have now. Sure as hell is more credible than astro writting, ouija or any of those other mediums that can be contamenated by the person claiming that skill or ability.


Well a few points here, ofcourse you have your opinion and i applaud that, if thermal imaging helps you feel better about ghosts then so be it, like i said unfortunately there are instances when ghost scientists shit their pants and run off, even mediums and Pychics are sometimes not welcome, also i wouldnt say that scientific discovery or rather the use of technology in the pusuit of the paranormal make it more credible than older methods, these methods are still used for a reason and generally older tried and tested methods atleast have some dialogue and history whereas new methods in the cold light of day do not harvest the desired effect.
Who said anything about the new technology making me feel better about ghosts...... I was expressing it is "ground-breaking", we now live in a time when we are truely in a technological golden age (jmo) The problem (once again imo) is that alot of people forget that in each era, people used what ever devise was discovered/created/opened for that time. With in each generation all old ways/things get refined and new ideas are introduced, there is a progression that I see. It only makes sense that we would be getting closer to proving once again we did not know as much as we thought we did the generation before.... I may need to clarify that further.


One aspect which is still used in contacting spirits is the meditation effect, everything seems to exist in a state of mind rather than just asking 'is there anybody there' this could point to either hyper suggestibility or indeed a necessary state of being in order to communicate, so far its these experiments that have not been taken forward. very true but see below, now lets say you could scientifically prove that those individual had different brain wave patterns...... imagine the possiblities, if we can identify it than we can study how to cultivate it. Not saying it's good or bad to do so, just to have the proof. True there are alot of Psychic fakes out there and they are cashing in on peoples misery using old psychological techniques such as the barnum effect (generalising in order to get a response) but we shouldnt discount this stuff just cos we don't seem to have the same 'gift'. exactly.


< Message edited by MsParados -- 3/7/2007 8:35:37 PM >

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 8:53:04 PM   
bludemonn


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Status: offline 		Thats what im saying, there will never be tangible proof due to the inadequacies of technology and the way the data is interpreted, i don't see the methods these investigators use as ground breaking atall. Science is way behind in the discovery of phsyics and energies, in fact Science is only the documentation of experiments which can be re-produced. Each individual is subject to different forms of phenomena which makes it almost impossible to be able to re-produce effects on demand.

What makes me laugh is there are recorded methods of training the mind in order to experience activity but in this technological day and age people are more interested in patenting something that will make them money and acquire a push button approach. We have severley dumbed down and chosen to be lazy in these instances, as for the brain wave patterns that again will be subject to your particular take on what the so-called evidence is showing, does it mean IT effects your brain or does it mean YOU effect it? We cant even make a definate Science out of diagnosing mental illness let alone identifying the actions of Pychic phenomena on Physiology......*catches breath* 

Imagine if you will you have all the ghost buster equipment you can get your hands on, Video equipment, motion sensors, thermal and cold spot equipment, EMF meters, hi frequency sound microphones for EVP, night vision equipment etc And you go in putting all your Scientific equipment out and you sit and watch, you depend upon the data to stream out showing you have something to work with? Do you not miss the minute sensations your body may be reading? It's a bit like ignoring the natural elements in place of electronic ones, we do have the tools but people are impatient and businesses need to make money.

DID YOU KNOW there is COMPUTER software out there which you programme to help you 'get what you want'? I know cos i've seen the site which they try to sell it from, its probably a huge con but people do it! You pick certain configurations then hopefully if you have a crush on someone they will come to you. Don't get me wrong, the ghost hunting pastime is something interesting but make NO mistake it has very very credible reasons for making money from tourists and curious enthusiasts and is becoming more like a circus everyday, and what do you get when you have a circus? CLOWNS lol



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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 9:11:02 PM   
bludemonn


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Status: offline 		Speaking of sheer un-adulterated extra vigin Idiocy, i had the misfortune to waste 6 minutes trying to figure out if this guy i watched on youtube was doing this for a prank of whether he ACTUALLY believed what he was doing, if he did believe it i think i'm going to fly to the states and brutally beat him to death (sorry that was extreme but it really does warrant it), whilst watching him i felt my fists clench and all i could feel was i NEEDED to punch him so many times till my arms fell off he was soooooooo THICK....ahem anyway it was on the subject of conjuring demons i simply put in the search 'conjuring demon' and this absolute IDIOT came up, he was summoning 'emo' demons to stop his noisey neighbours, im sooooo hoping this was a prank, although i dont think he was that good an actor, now i know why some people actually say 'messing with demons will get you KILLED' we can only hope it applies to this moron! *bangs head off floor*

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 9:36:29 PM   
bearincuffs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

Speaking of sheer un-adulterated extra vigin Idiocy, i had the misfortune to waste 6 minutes trying to figure out if this guy i watched on youtube was doing this for a prank of whether he ACTUALLY believed what he was doing, if he did believe it i think i'm going to fly to the states and brutally beat him to death (sorry that was extreme but it really does warrant it), whilst watching him i felt my fists clench and all i could feel was i NEEDED to punch him so many times till my arms fell off he was soooooooo THICK....ahem anyway it was on the subject of conjuring demons i simply put in the search 'conjuring demon' and this absolute IDIOT came up, he was summoning 'emo' demons to stop his noisey neighbours, im sooooo hoping this was a prank, although i dont think he was that good an actor, now i know why some people actually say 'messing with demons will get you KILLED' we can only hope it applies to this moron! *bangs head off floor*


I don't think you really have to be so worried about many of these "idiots" who attempt to conjure up a demon or spirit, blu. I am far from being an expert but from what I do know, there is much more involved for a person trying to conjure anything from just following a scripted spell. It takes having a strong enough desire and a true belief in what you want to accomplsh, plus using the correct components needed to accompany a spell and there are other factors should/have to be satisfied before casting said spell.
   It seems to me that any spell to conjure demons would be in ancient texts and writen in a language other then english. from the many many books I have read and seen that are readily available, most can be considered watered down versions therefore the the accuracy of demon conjuring spells is diluted. Granted some of the ancient texts and grimories have been tranlasted into english, yet many components are either very scarce, next to impossible to acquire and some components are illegal to obtain in many countries.
   One example from my own dabbling, which has nothing to do with conjuing,  is many years ago I came across a spell to create a salve to induce OBEs. One ingredient I needed was the berries from the Belladonna plant. snce I live in Canada, this plant isn't native to this country nor does it grow here. Since I wasn't able to acquire any berries, I gave up on attempting to make this salve, even though I was well aware of the toxic effects of this plant.
But it is unfortunate that there are people who may have no bloody idea what they are doing and blindly attempt it anyway.


< Message edited by bearincuffs -- 3/7/2007 9:37:39 PM >

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An it harm none, do as thou wilt
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An it harm none, do what thou will
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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 9:45:53 PM   
bludemonn


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Status: offline 		Yeah i know what you are saying Bear but this guy was the epitome of stupid, dont get me wrong i know he wasnt conjuring, there is protocol for doing this and in older methods it was common to take a substance similar to LSD in order to fall into a trance state, some Magicians today still use drugs to gain an altered state of mind although not recommended because of the lack of control.

Many of these rituals and even the ideas of making potions is all to do with deceiving ones mind into believing that you are making things happen, never underestimate what real belief does, its difficult just to 'will' something to happen because the concious mind has a way of getting in the way, we all create diversions so that we can concentrate on what we are achieving thus keeping our concious mind distracted enough to charge the energy we need to cause what we are striving for, although not a practicioner of Magic I am a follower of Chaos amongst other things which derives from the Shamen system of arts. 

I still like to see how people use old magic in modern day life whether its a simple superstition or a complex ritual. 

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RE: Idiocy when dealing with the Occult - 3/7/2007 10:14:20 PM   
RobertCloud


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Status: offline 		A couple of comments.
First... As far as none of the extreme tales of spirits or evil coming into play until after the Catholic Church came into being, this is not true. Many Native and Aboriginal groups around the world including North America have tales of vengeful spirits and hauntings. Most are simply mischievious gone extremely foul, but some are very evil. The orient has stories of evil spirits that pre-date the Catholic Church by over a thousand years.

As farm as spirits not being able to harm people. Tell that to one of my best friends who had the burn marks that looked like two hands wrapped around his arms as something lifted him off the ground. His stupidity for reading the Necronomicon and getting heavily involved in the occult. I saw it happen. He later joined the Catholic Church and they performed some kind of special ritual on him, I was not there for that. So I do not know if it was an exorcism or something else, but I know he was never the same after that day.

As far as seeing ghosts or spirits I have since I was 2 and still do. Five ghosts live in this house I live in, they are benevolent, just lost...

It is the unborn spirits that are usually the most dangerous, the ones that have never lived in a human body. They seek to experience life so they will do anything to manipulate someone to get a chance to enter a body and experience life. Some of these are minor and cannot hang on for more than a short time, the person may have something similar to a seizure and it is gone. Some are more powerful and can take hold, and then there are some people that are magnets and many spirits take residence. Some Native American Medicine men will call someone with Multiple personalities the Many-Souled. They believe the person has more than one soul, that at a time of stress in their life they called out for help and a soul or spirit that was around came and took up residence to help the person survive the incident. In exchange that new soul or spirit shares the body. Once one is there it is easier for more to join. That is why people wiht Multiplicity can have personalities that are not even human. Because they are spirits of things that were never born and therefore the person's original imagination can manipulate the spirit into assuming a form or shape of something in their mind. I know one person with multiplicity that has a Dragon for a personality. Another with a Robot, and my estranged wife has both male and female.

As for me. I have helped people by speaking with their relatives that have passed over. I have helped them find things that only their departed relatives knew where it could be. I have given them names of relatives they did not know existed and later have had these things confirmed. I have helped them find things that were lost, and told them when to expect the death of a loved one that was dying from cancer. I HATE MY CURSE!!!!!!!! It hurts!!!!!!!! It is horrible to see the things I see sometimes, I do not like it, I do not like telling these things, and I do not want to tell them, but sometimes when someone asks me a question the answer comes so fast I cannot stop it.

Yes, sometimes I am wrong, but it usually is not on the final outcome... it is usually on the timing. The when... Like if I tell someone they can expect to find a new love in their life in six months... I am usually not wrong about the love.. nor the six.. but the months could be days, weeks, months, or bi-months, seasons, or unfortunately years.

Or in one case I told a woman that dating this man would be good for her. The relationship with the man was a disaster, but... the fact that she had started dating again showed her that love was wonderful and helped her feel like she had touched heaven. She did not stop dating and she has not given up on dating. That date was her first one in seven years. So, the outcome was not what she expected, but the result was correct, dating him was good for her. It released her and has helped her see dating was good.

Okay... That is enough about me... grrrrrrrrrrr..... I hate that... I get to talking about spirits and the occult and now psychic stuff and I get carried away... All in all I have seen a lot, been through a lot... dealt with a lot on the occult side. I know the dangers and pitfalls, and I warn people to stay away from it when at all possible because no matter what precautions you set up the tiniest mistake can cause the worst catastrophe you can imagine.





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