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RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:01:08 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		All of this just proves that the *AMERICAN PEOPLE* need to have a LOT more say beyond just electing people, in the affairs of *OUR* government!
Currently this country has been hijacked by Big Business!
I think that the American People should be able to vote on issues on the ballot! Of course Big Business wouldn't like that one bit!
We need to change a whole bunch of things about *OUR* government!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/9/2007 12:04:33 PM >

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:16:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:22:32 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

The Senate and Congress can hold Senate and Congressional Hearings.  A hearing is a meeting or session of a Senate, House, Joint, or Special Committee of Congress, usually open to the public, to obtain information and opinions on proposed legislation, conduct an investigation, or evaluate/oversee the activities of a government department or the implementation of a Federal law. In addition, hearings may also be purely exploratory in nature, providing testimony and data about topics of current interest. Most Congressional hearings are published two months to two years after they are held. They do not have any proctorial power whatsoever.


I see the problem we are discussing 2 different ideas..
let me clarify my position
As for the president..
If you truly believe that he has committed crimes impeach him.. their was talk of this before the election from the left but the Dems have backed away.
My position was that they lack the courage of their convictions on this.
there is no impediment to this as

Article I, section 2 of the Constitution grants the "sole Power of Impeachment" to the House of Representatives, and section 3 grants the Senate the "sole Power to try all Impeachments." Those subject to impeachment are the President, the Vice-President, "and all civil Officers of the United States," e.g. cabinet members and federal judges. If the House does vote to impeach a public official, that would only be the start of the process. A trial must then be conducted by the Senate, followed by a 2/3 vote to convict. If convicted, the official is removed from office.
And the Dems control both the house and the senate.

As for the fired prosecutors..
As the justice department is under the control of the executive branch, I would expect that they would be reluctant to go after their own. But its not unheard of.. ask Scooter.
your remedy is two fold the court of public opinion, which the media is happy to provide. The pressure from this might allow for an independent prosecutor.. ( think Scooter)
Both congress and the senate can call hearings to investigate.. again more pressure.

If you prove it, beyond a political witch hunt ( which is what the Dems fear) then it will be prosecuted.. You just have to work the system.
Perception of launching a witch hunt dragged down congress during the Clinton admin, In my opinion thats the real reason for their reluctance. They have to answer for it in 2 years..

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:34:21 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I'm a little sketchy about how holding someone who right now 70% of the nation doesn't support, accountable for felonies committed resulting in the deaths of thousands and thousands and thousands of people is exactly going to HURT anyone's chances of getting re-elected?





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:39:59 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'm a little sketchy about how holding someone who right now 70% of the nation doesn't support, accountable for felonies committed resulting in the deaths of thousands and thousands and thousands of people is exactly going to HURT anyone's chances of getting re-elected?

/quote]
Then bring it on..
Which party is more hypocritical....
We felt that their was a case to be made and did so Why has Pelosi backed away??

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 12:54:01 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Americans' job-approval rating for Congress was 32 percent, just below that of the president, according to the poll. The figure has remained unchanged for the last three months following the Democratic sweep of the House and Senate in mid-term elections in November.

At least Bush is on an upswing lol ( really the only direction he could go )
Bush Popularity Edges Up From Record Low, to 35%, Poll Shows


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 2:29:49 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Americans' job-approval rating for Congress was 32 percent, just below that of the president, according to the poll. The figure has remained unchanged for the last three months following the Democratic sweep of the House and Senate in mid-term elections in November.

At least Bush is on an upswing lol ( really the only direction he could go )
Bush Popularity Edges Up From Record Low, to 35%, Poll Shows




Sternhand4:
Democratic sweep of the senate and the house....they barely have a simple majority.  How by any form of arithmatic do you call that a sweep?  Do you think if they had a "sweep" that bush & co would not be in prison in a heart beat?....yeah right same mud different day...emotion overtook reality there for a moment.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 3/9/2007 2:30:47 PM >

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 4:14:23 PM   
Sternhand4


Posts: 422
Joined: 3/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Americans' job-approval rating for Congress was 32 percent, just below that of the president, according to the poll. The figure has remained unchanged for the last three months following the Democratic sweep of the House and Senate in mid-term elections in November.

At least Bush is on an upswing lol ( really the only direction he could go )
Bush Popularity Edges Up From Record Low, to 35%, Poll Shows




Sternhand4:
Democratic sweep of the senate and the house....they barely have a simple majority.  How by any form of arithmatic do you call that a sweep?
It wasn't my quote, Thats why I put it in italics, sorry if that wasn't clear.
But all they need is a majority to launch an impeachment trial. You dont even need a specific ccharge. Not that I havent seen tHem leveled here.
 
The Framers of the Constitution deliberately put impeachment into the hands of the legislative branch rather than the judicial branch, thus transforming it from strictly a matter of legal definition to a matter of political judgment. Then Representative Gerald Ford put it into practical perspective in 1970, when he said an impeachable offense is "whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history."
http://www.c-span.org/questions/week119.asp
Do you think if they had a "sweep" that bush & co would not be in prison in a heart beat?....yeah right same mud different day...emotion overtook reality there for a moment.
thompson

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 4:23:41 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		If they'll snatch someone off the street, disappear them into a secret prison without judicial oversight, due process, or equal protection of the law, where they are tortured and killed...

What won't they do to stay in power?

Like everyone else, people are concerned for the safety and well-being of their families, and that's why no-one will go out on a limb and push the issue. Getting FIRED is the least of your problems if you push too hard.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 4:30:22 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Liberals don't care though. "Rapist, schmapist" they say. He's a Leftist, so they love him.



Bush is a murderer.  Conservatives dont care, they love him.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
Do you know all of the conservatives?
Are you suggesting that all conservatives approve of murder?
Common dude get a grip and pull your foot out of your mouth.
thompson


thompsonx,

I was using the same argumentation device (fallacy ad circumstantium) utilized by the person I quoted to prove a point that the quote was ridiculous.

From my perspective, any sentence that starts with all or every or whatever infinitive one wants to use is suspect, because from a logical standpoint all that is required is to find one exception.

Im the dude, so thats what you call me, dude or duder or el duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing...

But Im not sure people would call me common.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 4:59:27 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Ahh, you are right, sorry about that, somewhere along the line I think I passed by a couple of posts, for some reason I thought we were talking about Gonzales and the federal prosecutors, not impeachment, I am sorry.  So much for attempting to post while at work.

However, impeachment, though certainly justified, will not happen as there are still too many party line republicans for that to happen.

The impeachment (or possible impeachment) of either George Bush or Dick Cheney would not be a witch hunt.  There are far too many things that they have done to subvert our constitution (to which they took an oath to protect).  It would be futile, at this point,however, for the fact that the Dems only have 51 out of the 69 votes needed.

Funny, you assume I am a Democrat.  I am not.

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 5:07:48 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

As for the president..
If you truly believe that he has committed crimes impeach him.. their was talk of this before the election from the left but the Dems have backed away.
My position was that they lack the courage of their convictions on this.
there is no impediment to this as



Need more than a simple majority to impeach.

quote:



And the Dems control both the house and the senate.



Control and having enough votes to impeach are two different things, Sternhand4.

I agree with what they are doing.  I totally understand the wisdom of not picking fights one cannot win.

The problem is that they do have enough votes to prevent Monkeyboy from doing anything.

All we have to do is survive the next two years of that clown in office...

There is a bill going up to force the President to resolve Iraq before he leaves office.  I hope that one passes, because I suspect the Republicans are going to try to foist it on whoever wins in 2008 and then blame them for how badly it is all going.

quote:



If you prove it, beyond a political witch hunt ( which is what the Dems fear) then it will be prosecuted.. You just have to work the system.
Perception of launching a witch hunt dragged down congress during the Clinton admin, In my opinion thats the real reason for their reluctance. They have to answer for it in 2 years..



The Republicans had a clear majority and the ability to force the issue with Clinton.  It was only a matter of time before the most egregiously investigated president in the history of our nation was brought down.

This is not the case currently.

I dont think the Democrats fear anything.  All they have to do is do nothing and 2008 will be "Yer Fired, the Sequel" as far as elections go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 6:30:06 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

All of this just proves that the *AMERICAN PEOPLE* need to have a LOT more say beyond just electing people, in the affairs of *OUR* government!
Currently this country has been hijacked by Big Business!
I think that the American People should be able to vote on issues on the ballot! Of course Big Business wouldn't like that one bit!
We need to change a whole bunch of things about *OUR* government!


ok thats really kool and how do you propose to do that?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 6:50:40 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Liberals don't care though. "Rapist, schmapist" they say. He's a Leftist, so they love him.



Bush is a murderer.  Conservatives dont care, they love him.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
Do you know all of the conservatives?
Are you suggesting that all conservatives approve of murder?
Common dude get a grip and pull your foot out of your mouth.
thompson


thompsonx,

I was using the same argumentation device (fallacy ad circumstantium) utilized by the person I quoted to prove a point that the quote was ridiculous.

From my perspective, any sentence that starts with all or every or whatever infinitive one wants to use is suspect, because from a logical standpoint all that is required is to find one exception.

Im the dude, so thats what you call me, dude or duder or el duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing...

But Im not sure people would call me common.

Sinergy




Sinergy:
Due to my inability to proof read spell or type come on dude came out as common dude...sorry for the confusion.  You will note that the same admonition went to both you and Sanity.  I deal in equal opportunity sarcasim.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 3/9/2007 6:55:32 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 6:59:01 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sinergy:
Due to my inability to proof read spell or type come on dude came out as common dude...sorry for the confusion.  You will note that the same admonition went to both you and Sanity.  I deal in equal opportunity sarcasim.
thompson


I suspected as much.

But I am one of those who feels it is important to give as good as one gets...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 9:08:50 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Clinton has been 'out of the loop' now; for what 3 weeks or so. Focused still on Clinton and his member.


If you were trying to defend an administration that had landed us in the Iraq quagmire, presided over Gitmo and the consequent erosion of America's moral authority, bent or broken the law to spy on its own citizens, completely squandered the outpouring of global goodwill that embraced America after 9/11, and racked up record deficits -- to name just a few of Bush's achievements -- wouldn't you attempt to divert attention any way you could? Dwelling on Clinton's sins is a desperate attempt to keep us from focusing on Bush's.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to ferryman777)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 10:56:58 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		First off... I don't have the time or inclination to read the 100+ responses to the OP here.

All I can say is that if anyone here takes Ann Coulter seriously, I have this very interesting bridge for sale. It leads into a major metropolitan area in the US. You could place a toll stop both inbound and outbound of the city, and retire in as little as 1 to 2 years!

Write me on the other side for more details.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/9/2007 11:02:51 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		If you want to discuss Ann Coulter, please refer back to my previous post which was posted about an eternity ago.

_____________________________



(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/10/2007 2:27:13 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

If you truly believe that he has committed crimes impeach him.. their was talk of this before the election from the left but the Dems have backed away. My position was that they lack the courage of their convictions on this.


That's one possible explantion, certainly. I can think of two others, though:

(a) Realizing that they don't have the votes for a conviction in the Senate, the Dems may be reluctant to pour resources into a futile undertaking.

(b) The Dems may honestly believe that having an impeachment spectacle/trauma per administration is not in the nation's best interest.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Ann Coulter on Scooter Libby - 3/10/2007 4:07:36 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		It could also be, that there is nothing to be gained.
 
Democrats have already locked up gridlock (which, all things considered, may be a good thing) ...
 
...and, by the time hearing got going, President Bush will be leaving office. 

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 120
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