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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 4:54:30 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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Amen to what you've said.  I've never felt it's my job to coddle adults or think highly of them because they are stupid.  Why people do this I will never know.

"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. "
Anais Nin




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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to BettyFordClinic)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 7:43:30 AM   
Aileen68


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*fast reply*
Collarchat has some wonderful functions that not a lot of people use.
The first is the block function.  It's that little red hand at the bottom of each post.
If you hit it then Poof.  You no longer have to see any posts by any poster that annoys you.  Just like magic.
The second wonderful feature is the forward button that is located on the upper right of each post.  Now this feature does something comletely different.  If you hit that button on a certain post, it will capture and forward that exact post to any email you tell it.  Let's say, for example, on another thread I was reading ( a very flaming thread at that...flames thrown both ways) that I happened to see a post by someone who's whole contention throughout the thread was that it wasn't very nice of some people to be mean.  All they wanted was to vent and gain some much needed support.  Now this particular post, which happens to be sitting in my gmail account at this very moment because I used that wonderful forward option, was by far the nastiest thing I've read here on collarchat in quite a while.  Imagine my surprise to see it written by the very one who was getting so upset over responses to her that she deemed mean.  I do believe that she responded to a very well worded, not flaming, yet not entirely supportive of her or the other point of view...fairly neutral post by calling that person a bitch in a very rude manner.  She then within the next few minutes edited it a couple of times so that none of the original message was left.  All that was there was a very sugary yet sarcastic response.  I can say that I did read her original post, I did capture it and without a doubt, had a moderator read it she would now have {awaiting approval} with her every post.  I find it all ironic that it's ok if something is said in a sugar coated way.  I have no problem here with anyone.  You are all strangers for the most part.  But you all should realize that some may be so very guilty of all the things they are critical of others of.  Enjoy your day people.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 7:48:41 AM   
KatyLied


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There has been more than one occasion when I wished I had saved a post that later was edited to blank or changed significantly.  Smart girl!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 7:58:25 AM   
LaTigresse


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I saw that unfold also. I must say it has been an enlightening few days of posting with regards to personalities. I'm glad to know my gut instincts are still working as well as they ever have.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 8:06:40 AM   
mstrjx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

You are all strangers for the most part. 



And this is a (the) shame of it.

This is the type of thread I avoid, but the gist of it had me thinking yesterday.  I had worked out quite a bit about what I wanted to say, but I'll abandon all of that.

The crux of it is this:

We pretend we know something about each other, kinda-sorta.

Given what we think we (kinda-sorta) know, we pretend we care to the effect that we say things that are relevant, be it sugar-coated, snarky, or actually kind.

It would be inordinately helpful if we actually were friends of sorts (Oh, how I hate using the 'f' word.)  I know there are some here that I would like to know enough to figure out what makes them tick.  It would add so much more credibility to posting.

But that just goes back to a (the) larger issue, which is why we post at all.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Aileen68)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 8:19:51 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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There was another thread, that spawned this one, that I had two written responses to that I never posted.  For various reasons I felt it would be unproductive and others were bascially saying what I felt anyway. 

About personalities, you can tell a lot about someone through their postings.  And there is no way it can be denied.  We can see who is dysfunctional and how far and wide it is through their postings.  And for them to deny seems silly to me.  But much of this is preaching to the choir because the person who needs to hear it never listens.  It's no wonder people get rude and snarky at times, I can see the frustration. 




_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 9:05:41 AM   
happypervert


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I think the whole point of this thread is misguided, because it seems to me that the so called meanies usually only appear in response to those whose dysfunctions or stupidity runs so deep that they use message boards as therapy because they think venting is going to solve their problems. So instead of denouncing the meanies, wouldn't it be more productive to figure out some way to guide the ones who are unbalanced toward therapy to get help?

As it stands right now, the only tactic that is effectively employed to silence the meanies is when a wacko keeps yammering on and on like a broken record, and eventually the meanies realize it is a waste of time responding so they quit out of disgust. Then the conversations become nothing but an energy vampire sucking sympathy and group hugs from the others, and scenes like that may be even more obnoxious than anything the meanies have to say.


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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:00:53 AM   
SusanofO


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I don't have particular bad feelings toward anyone here. I have also been going through a real rough patch lately, but that in no way negates the message of this thread; the fact this kind of thing happens here happens regardless of how I view it. I consider it stuff that is pretty objectively viewed generally, because I am referring to the extreme instance (that is more common, IMO, than it needs to be).


It's also not a huge deal - people can take or leave the idea, but I thought it pertinent enough to toos out for consideration. This whole topic is not directed at anyone personally. At all. It's a phenomenon I'd noticed for over 2 years.

I still think that the way somebody chooses to react to things says a lot about them. Somebody can chooose to be nice or nasty. If they choose to be truly nasty - sorry to say it, but that will also tell me something about what I can garner about their maturity level, and possibly other things. Personally I hate judgmental types, and very rarely get riled about much. But that is a general value of mine - if some people find this hard to swallow, I see no need to apologize for it, frankly. It is time for people to call a spade a spade when it comes to this kind of behavior.

Having said that, I want to be very clear that I am talking about the extreme instance. If someone has a differing opinion on something, that is fine and of course to be expected. This is a message board and of course  everyone has different opinions. I am referring to really nasty commentary, whiich doesn't even need to happen, IMO

Not that I am delusional enough to ever think it would stop altogether.
The only reason I brought it up, is because in general, I really still do think it is a very pertinent thread topic. I am sure it hasn't escaped the notice of some other folks, either.

How much it bothers anyone personally or not when it happens, maybe does depend a lot on their personality, and I do think there is something to be said for things like someone's Myers-Briggs type affecting how they view stuff like this, perhaps.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/12/2007 10:20:00 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to happypervert)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:15:01 AM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

but I still think that the way somebody chooses to react to things says a lot about them. Somebody can chooose to be nice or nasty. If they choose to be nasty - sorry to say it, but that will also tell me something about what I can garner about their maturity level, and a ot of other thnngs. if people find this hard to swallow, I see no need to apologize for it, frankly. It is time for people to call a spade a spade when it comes to this kind of behavior, IMO.


- Susan

How do you view yourself?  You were the one to call another poster a bitch before you went back and edited your post.  What does that say about you? That was her first post in the forums so you had no history with her and yet you found it appropriate to judge and call names because she didn't support your views.  In your own words....you were extremely nasty.   I guess your own rules about how everyone should respond doesn't apply to you?  Now you can respond to this or not...doesn't really matter to me.  You can say that I'm being nasty, which I'm not.  I'm just pointing out facts because of words that you've just chosen to post which I've quoted above.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:20:42 AM   
SusanofO


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When did I call someone a bitch? Oh that "Submissive" thread. Well. I didn't call her a bitch. I got assertive, which in that instance, is exactly what was called for, IMO. If somebody is gonna say things like: "You're  a perpetual vicitim" and that kind of thing, when they've seen maybe 3 or 4 thread topics on a person (adn she herself had seen one threead, no others, ever)and otherwise know not much at all about 'em, it's a fair exchange, IMO. In that instance, she got what she dished out, which was unfair to begin with. Like I said: I am done with people like this.

I mean, if I felt that way about what someone had said, about as far as I would go is saying something like: "Gee, maybe in this instance, it would have been more effective for you to consider doing X. And next time, you probably will", or somethig like that. I'm the kind of person who just sort of relates, anyway, and says: "Oh yeah, something similar happened to me once..""I dunno, maybe it's just a personality difference.

It always kind of strikes me as dime-store psychology stuff. It's just amatuer, unless you know someone fairly well. And I would  have given that person the benefit of the doubt - but since she chose to attack my very charachter, she can hardly expect me to remain silent. I was ticked off, and people can believe whatever they want, but it was pretty easy to say back, and think to myself:

Gosh, this person is calling me a "perpetual victim". It's laughable. She's read one thread I've ever written (not to mention no other posts), and, compared to that, I've been: Alive for 47 years. Kind of a contrast, as far as info. on which to stake a presumption. She has no basis for comparison (except in her own mind, maybe). I would have been willing to see it as well-intentioned - but it was pretty nastily phrased, to boot. Which left me pretty much little room to guess what her motives were.

How exactly is one supposed to "prove" they are not somethig like a "perpetual victim"? Hmmm. I doesn't take a genius to see that it was a set-up, in almost every sense of the word. She wanted to fight with someone, pure and simple. 

If someone is going to go out of their way to be nasty, I see no reason to not to try to defend myself (although I admit it would probably be smarter, in most instances to just walk away). I think it is one-sided for someone to believe that someone who feels attacked isn't going to do this (however, it still might be smarter to walk away, although, not always. I see this stuff as situational).   

I figured showing might be better than tellin' in that instance, just how stupid (as far as practical consequences) a remark like that actually is. I've had it with folks like this. It was a completely presumptious remark. Of course she has a right to make it. No doubt about it. 

Because of course, on a forum thread, about the only way some one is going to be able to "prove" they are not something like a "perpetual victim" would be to come back in a really hard-nosed way. As in: Wanna see a perpetual victim? I'll show you a perpetual victim, etc.

She said some sensible things in that post (I remember it), which I did mention in a complimentary manner. It was pretty well-phrased,etc. But it was also a very presumptious thingn for anyone to say (IMO) - about anyone. Plus, since it was my character she was attemtpting to assassinate, I felt a right to defend myself.

Bottom line: Folks like this give me a headache I can live without. Do I care what they think? No. Can they still be  a pain? Yeah. They can. Are thay always gonna exist? Probably.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/12/2007 11:07:35 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:22:58 AM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I never called nyone a bitch. When did I call someone a bitch?

In response to Ur2badored (think that was her id) in the other thread.  I read it and forwarded it to my email before you edited it.  If you don't remember that then maybe there are a lot of other issues going on. 
edited to add...once again...I'm going to walk from this trainwreck because none of it matters all that much to me.  Just thought I'd bring it up that everyone can be nasty at times, even you.  Have fun.
reedited to add the quote since you tend to go back and edit multiple times.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 3/12/2007 10:31:45 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:27:38 AM   
ferryman777


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I beg your pardon for butting in here.........Mensa SuzieO....don't you have a life? From what I've read, all you want is a perpetual dramazine; spent 250 bucks; so what ??? At the las vegas Harley Cafe a group of 5 will spend that on burgers and stuff. Then you go on with this good vs bad thingie. Who cares? You type volummes of stuff. I think, being mensa, boasting of higher than average I.Q. you enjoy posting threads then making fools of those that reply; they being honest in their replies; you play a sado/maso game.  If you don't like a post, then you tell them to mind their own business. Typical of the mensa bunch.
Aileen68 is my goddess, she has you nailed.
About you manipulated suteo relationship, .....continuing these diatribes, .....get over it.

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 10:50:21 AM   
Aileen68


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I never called anyone a bitch. When did I call someone a bitch? Oh that. Well. I didn't call her a bitch. I diid think, though Aileen, that if somebody is goona say things like "you're  a perpetual vicitim" and that kid of thing, when they've seen maybe 3 or 4 thread toopics on a person and otherwise know not much at all about 'em, it;s not really fait to globalize like that. It always kind of stirkes me as dime-store psychology stuff. it's just amatuer. I was ticked off, and people can believe whatever they want, but it was pretty easy to say back, and think to myself:
Gosh, this person is calling me a "perpetual victim". 

How exactly is one supposed to "prove" they are not somethig like a "perpetual victim"? Hmmm. Let's see. I doesn't take a genius to see that it was a set-up, in almost every sense of the word.

However, if someone is going to go out of their way to be nasty, I see no reason to not to try to defend myself (although I admit it would probably be smarter, in most instances to just walk away). I think ti is one-sided for someone to believe that someone who feels attacked isn't going to do this (however, it still might be smarter to walk away, although, not always. I see this tuff as situational).   

I figured showing might be better than tellin' in that instance, just how stupid (as far as practical consequences) a remark like that actually is. I've had it with folks like this. It was a completely presumptious remark. Of course she has a right to make it. No doubt about it. 

Because of course, on a forum thread, about the only way some one is going to be able to "prove" they are not something like a "perpetual victim" would be to come back in a really hard-nosed way. As in: Wanna see a perpetual victim? I'll show you a perpetual victim, etc. And if it wasn't nastily intended, I thought it was short-sighted enough a remark, as far as consequences, and also felt enough of a right to defend myself, that I had to wonder what she thought the reaction was, that she was likely top get after making a remark that globalized. She siad some sensible things in that post (I remmeber it). It was pretty well-phrased,etc. But it was a pretty presumptious thingnfor anyone to say (IMO). Plus, it was my character she was attemtpting to assassinate. I felt a right to defend myself. Of course, simply saying: Well, you might think so, whatever. miay have been effective as well.

Bottom line: Folks like this give me a headache I can live without. Do I care what they think? No. Can they still be  a pain? Yeah. They can. Are thay always gonna exist? Probably.

- Susan  

Actually, you did call her a bitch, but that's besides the point.  The point is, she had every right to post what she did and you had every right to call her a bitch.  When I read that, the first thing I thought about was...finally, Susan is showing a normal reaction.  If someone says something that pisses you off you have every right to defend yourself.  You don't have every right to say what they can or can't or how they should say it, which is the gist of this whole thread.  It's when people get hypocritical that things start to get frustrating.  You've had really nice posts and really mean ones too.  So have I. I've been flamed countless times on here.  Some of my favorite posters who flamed me the most have the most insightful things to say.  Did I like how they said things to me?  Nope.  But they  had really good advice that when I listened to it helped tremendously.  If I judged them by how they said it, I'd still be hitting my head against the wall and that important knowledge would have gone unused.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 3/12/2007 10:53:07 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:01:50 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

She's read one thread I've ever written (not to mention no other posts)


Susan, do you realize there are ways to search threads, by user name?  Why are you assuming she only read one thread??


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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:11:58 AM   
SusanofO


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Well Aileen,if I did edit it it is probably because unlike some people who post here, I am not comfortable just tossing around words like "bitch" , or usually even stuff close to it, around the forums. Of course if I felt it, or wrote it, I edited it out. She made me angry. People do get angry, this should actually not be a surpirse. Someone who actually is well-intentioned, though, IMO, would stop themselves before they let something really nasty float toward another and stay there.

She, on the other hand - edited nothing - which tells me about all I need to know.

Katy: Because she said that.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/12/2007 11:14:27 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:13:27 AM   
Aileen68


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So you're allowed to make judgements based on someone's words, but others aren't?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:22:16 AM   
SusanofO


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Well, I am certainly allowed to get my feelings hurt, and also to make judgments about people's intentions, based on how they choose to word stuff. I think sometimes it might be based on just plain personality differences, but again, I am not talking about objective, if slightly critical objective commentary. I am referring to extreme instances, where, as I mentioned before, unbalanced assertions, followed by over-the-top conclusions are made about someone, based on very little information.

My bottom-line: Somebody might make a suggestion or two, based on reading someone's post, possibly. Giving that kind of advice, though, to begin with, is I dunno, just the kind of territory where I think if people really want to be heard, IMO, it's better to have it be balanced, and certainly at least basically polite.

I am not sure why this happens, and there could be many possible explanations. I know a few months ago, there was someone I noticed who was always giving tough-talk, hard-nosed advice. It turned out she was an Addictions Counselor, and those folks are tiaught that is how to relate most effectively to some clients. So, maybe talking that way had become just part of her personality, which was sort of  understandable. However, I did notice that if it appeared to be effective, as far as the responses she got form folks she was tyring to reach, it was only about in 1 or 2 out of 10 times - because these folks here are not the same types of folks in her cliet base, apparently. But I did get whay she did that, after I found that out.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/12/2007 11:29:53 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:23:07 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Katy: Because she said that.


From her post:
This is only an observation of your numerous posts.






_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:24:51 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
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Perhaps she did, as many posters do, and write it outside this venue then import it after giving it much thought.

OR, perhaps she did as I do and actually read my post prior to hitting the OK button.

The fact remains that it appears that anyone that speaks their mind without alot of false sugar coating and sidestepping is now considered a rude bitch with no manners. When really the only people that seem to be up to par for you, are the kissy face agreeable sorts with lots of back patting and "oh poor you" comments.

And even more telling is that you only continue to dig yourself a deeper hole. It is beginning to be like a terrible car accident you cannot help but look away from as you drive by.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/12/2007 11:37:38 AM   
SusanofO


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You know, even if it is an "observation of numerous posts", it was worded in a presumptious, audacious way. What does reading anyone's posts actually prove?- that the reader's intentions and advice are now therefore stellar and predjudice-free? Or its opposite? IMO, neither, really. 

The whole idea (to me) that someone can judge somebody's very charcater, based on reading 10 posts, or something  is a wee bit hard to swallow (to me). I run my life just fine. I am financially stable. I have many friends, interestig hobbies, and a close-knit immediate familt, I am -most of the time, a happy person.

Yes, I have had problems I have posted about here. Cuz therea ren't a whole lotta other people I know who do bdsm. Does that make me a human who occasionallly needs to talk about a bdsm related issue, or automatically ready for a strait-jacket? 

The insinuation in her post seemed (to me) to be that somehow, because I'd experienced a problem that can't be unlike anything some, or even many other folks have experienced, I am somehow seriously scathed and damaged, not ready for a full life, not ready for a "good" relationship, and possible other presumptions that just plain aren't true. It was over-the-top in its presumptions, 
It was almost amusing, because she knew so little about me (seriously, I remember that post, and I was amused by it in some ways). Gimme a break.

I seriously question the actual intent of someone like this soley because if someone really wants to be helpful, they are going to word their advice in a more balanced and polite way.

At least to me. If she actually had read any of my posts (which I doubt she actually did, it's an easy enough thing to simply claim) then she would know I am not a hard-core chain-gang member who needs to be addressed like I am an escapee from a Federal Prison somewhere. My bottom line: It's plain not effective, almost all of the time, to relate to people one is trying to reach in this manner.

My other bottom line: Do I expect people  who are inclined to do this stuff to completely disappear? Not really. I am a realist. However, I held out hope that discussing it as a general concept might be good food for thought, for whoever wanted to read it and just see where it went.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/12/2007 11:49:45 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 120
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