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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 12:26:04 PM   
ElectraGlide


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From: Maryland
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Susanof O I agree with you, this is a very good post you made. I hate to see somebody with under 10 post get run out of here in a heart beat because they generalized. I always give them the benifit of the doubt and let it slide. The Peanut Gallery just waits for newbies, they know who they are, just because they post on every thread on here they are self professed experts. When the Wack Pack attacks it sends the post right to random stupidity, then they get to put another notch in their keyboard. The attackers are not into BDSM because they want to connect with a partner on the same level of thought. They are just angry and like to abuse someone.

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 12:32:17 PM   
SusanofO


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It's not about me. It really is about the crap that happnes on many threads. Watvh the "pattern of response development" - and youll see what I mean. Not all the time, but more often than is probably necessary. IMO. Snd of course ther eare many,many folks who wouldn't dream of acting this way.

And to clarify,I am NOT talkingabout people who offer balance objective criticism. LA is a good example of this, a lot of the time. She is sane. I can handle her, because she's smart and also pretty objective.

It's the petty vindictive crap that some people sometimes think is just fine, that is completely non-productive, that just isn't well, nice. Sorry to sound so "wimpy" about it. Fortunately, I don't find "wimpy" a curse to be avoided at all costs. In fact, I think, soemtimes it works a helluva lot better than determined-to-be-a-hard-nosed-tough-talking wahtever. Anyone who's taken a communications course knows this. or anyne who actually is trying to motivate someone. Plenty of people do that, too.

Maybe I am just seeing bad stuff, too. This isn't personal. There isnt anybody here - anybody, I couldn't find something good to say about. Really.

So - maybe I should focus on that, and it will increase. It's just that the 'bad stuff" doesn't seem to be decreasing much somedays, when I take a good hard look around. Maybe it's me. I probably should just shut up, maybe it's a passing mood, or something. I mean, in the end, people  are gonna do whatver they ant anyway. I've had one ot two bitchy moments, myself, so am not certainly imune from doing that ever. I just don't think it's productive, bottom line. It plain doesn't work.

*True end of rant.

- Susan

- Susan  

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 12:33:34 PM   
SusanofO


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I can't get into my edit function. Sorry about the typos.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 12:49:48 PM   
catize


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It has been my experience, whether on the boards or in real life, the points brought up that upset or anger me the most are the ones I need to take a closer look at. 
I ask myself these questions:
What is it about that topic that makes it a hot-button for me?
What is it about that comment that creates a feeling of defensiveness?
 
I find it far more productive to explore and analyze my own reactions than to expect others to change how they express themselves or voice their opinions.

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 1:26:15 PM   
SusanofO


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Well that is true, catize. And I am hoping people do that, if it is brought up in a way that completely doesn't annihalate the poster, first. I've gained from reading some threads I started where I didn't receive all warm-and-fuzzy responses. I think objective, balanced criticism is fine.

I still think it is way way out of line to characterize anyone, based on one or two posts, especially if a remark that does so in a negative (or even a positive way) is coming  from someone  who doesn't know the poster at all (based on having read anything they've written before, or very little).

I think that basically amounts to attempted character assasination. That they've "opened themselves up to it" and "asked for it" by posting at all, or simply by starting a thread - well, when it's vincdictive crap - and could just as easily be completely avoide, plus maybe offered as well-balanced criticism, or something even "warmer" (God forbid) well - that  just smells a whole lot like self-justification for mean-spirited invective to me, more than it smells like "helpful, well-intentioned advice".

In some cases I see (I am very observant, and I am wishing I wasn't at times, and plan to "turn off' that part of my vision, starting soon) people who've had their feelings hurt apparently cannot ever get over it, and yet are expecting other folks to do the same. I say someone needs to call a truce in that case, or it possibly just never ends.

Another thing I see happen, is that some people really do think a lot of tough talk really does make them seem to know more about what they are talking about. It's bravado, pure and simple. Or perhaps maybe just not-my style, I guess.

Some people really do have  lot of common sense and-or experience. These people do know what they are talking about (if so, I myself will usually listen). Sometimes, though , it is plain over-the-top BS. It doesn't make them knowledgeable (or make them look that way). I see it as not only inneffective, in that case, I see it as potentially (or actually) damaging, to a greater or lesser degree.

There is simpy no subsitute for good judgment. I think that includes knowing how hard to push somebody, and someone not believing that being really nasty isn't gonna come back and bite a person in the ass. People just should not allow that stuff to "pay off" for someone else, IMO. Not under a guise of supposed "helpfulness."

After all - it goes against the supposed self-control that guides "Domliness" I've read oh so much about on websites and such. And the grace and poise with which some subs are supposedly striving to conduct themselves. I think it's time to "raise the bar", sometimes, around here, as far as really nasty, under-handed stuff goes.


- Susan


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 1:29:26 PM   
TexasMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I can't get into my edit function. Sorry about the typos.

- Susan


I can't edit,either! Yikes! What's up with that?

TM

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 1:44:55 PM   
SusanofO


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I dunno. It's been happening since I came to the middle of this thread. I think I need to stop and re-start my computer, maybe. Sometimes, that helps. 

Anyway, I am npt trying to alientate anyone, and am more than aware I don't run the world or anyone else's opinions, responses, etc. people are gonna do what they are gonna do. There are a lot of good, helpful, sane. folk here. I just think it pays to try to discern sometimes, if what is being said is going to actually be helpful. And I wanted anyone out there who may have ever wondered "Is it just me who see this, or is it really happening" to know: IMO, it is really happening, sometimes. You just don't have to play the game, or buy into it. Or, if you are eally worn out, just ignore it. It takes less energy, But in some cases, doesn't work.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to TexasMaam)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 1:52:11 PM   
wireweaver


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Oh boy can i go on and on about this one!!!

I recently wrote to one of my Masters "sub" pen pals asking for some insight.  i was foolish enough to think if she was his "friend" she would be mine also. i had read some of her info here (as my Master had suggested) and saw she had ample time in the BDSM world to understand how things go.  i was also silly enough to think that she might actually be someone i could speak to without telling the whole internet what was on my mind.  DUMB STAMP!!!  Her reply??? 

Needless to say my message to her was not at all well received in spite of the fact i made it abundantly clear i held NO animosity toward anyone, just kind of needed to be able to speak to someone to help me understand this dyanamic.

i forwarded all correspondences with her to my Master (she thought she had beat me to the punch, roflmao) and have since decided that maybe there isn't anyone to talk to.  What to do?



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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 1:54:31 PM   
patina


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thank you Susan as I was one of those newbies who when I first started posting i was shot down a few times.  I am too thick skinned and high spirited to be kept down for very long. I stood back got up and spit in their eye and posted again.

I did make some friends on here too, learned a lot, spent a lot of time reading the back posts to learn even more.  I still have to ask questions but i no longer get made fun of now, i am treated as a 2nd string groupie.  It is nice to not be told you are such an idoit or how stupid can you be,

I too will be watch out  for newbies

patina


     

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 2:00:50 PM   
SusanofO


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But anyway, I am probably just tired. I never sya anything about this stuff, that's probably why maybe people think many believe it simply doesn't exist. I am not sayingit's an huge deal, and people aren't capable of simply walking away of they are really annoyed. It would just make for a gentler world, altogether, if some folks weighed first the affect their response might have on someone, instead of just assuming "tough love" (and no balanced view of a situation) works better instead. because IMO, it almost always works better instead. Maybe I am just rambling. I never talk like this. I am probably just tired. But it'not like it isn't noticeable to just me. I mean most of the folks I see are nice.

If they're not sometimes of you ignore'em, or treat them l.ike you think they are nice anyway, they can usually show a warm side. But for the people who don't really ever try very hard, or rarely or never do, I say why bother? I guess I finally reached a point where I am willing to really say: Screw 'em. And I have normally have a long fuse. For me, that represents true progress (but you'd have to know me to know that). Anyway, it's probably no big deal to many here. But I doubt that's true for everyone, and just thought it worth a mention. I say losing one's diplomatic skill, in extreme cases, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 2:13:07 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO




A thread will start, and it wll start out pretty nice, with sane responses, and a couple of maybe slightly critical yet objective ones. Then some total bitch or bastard will write in, and instead of using sane judgment, humanity and ecent kindness, suddenly a lot of folks are jumping on the hatred band-wagon. I've seen this more thna a few times. I think it sucks. It's not necessary.

Of course I know there are people who would never do this, ever. There are a lot of them around, too.

I just don't see what it accomplishes, that's all.

End of Rant (good idea to say: This is a rant, crounchingtigress.) Yes - this was a rant. It was. End of rant.

- Susan


That's a phenomenon that both M and I have noticed too............it's almost like *permission* has been given to be a bit *beastly*.....LOL.

I have to say that I don't often see seriously vindictive posts.......some, I think are a *bit below the belt* but they often also say what I'm thinking.....just are an awful lot blunter than I'd be.

I think it's a little strong to use the word *hatred*, though. Spiteful, maybe.

I know you keep saying that *people are going to do what they are going to do* and that really IS the case.

The people that post frankly and objectively will do so. The few that don't, will be seen for the colours they display. The nature of a public forum will continue to be moulded by the spectrum of people inhabiting it.  I wouldn't change it, myself.

agirl








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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 3:12:24 PM   
SusanofO


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Well yeah. I mean what does it accomplish? And for some who are new, or maybe just un-thinking, they will feel like that is how the ahve to act to "fit in". Well, they don't. I am not saying this about anyone particularly, and I am not saying it about everyone. Mostly, I like it here. And yeah I'm sure free to leave, take a hike myself, etc. I don't want to sound like a big whiner. I can certainly hold my own in an argument. I just sometimes find it so damn draining to try. I grew up surrounded by quite a bit of that. Which may explain why I detest it so much, today (who knows? Thank God I veered in the opposite direction, for the most part, though, alhtough i am not sure that is the reason) 

I do think it's a legitmate viewpoint. And can scare and hurt some folks. I don't ever think expecting basic civility is "expecting to be molly-coddled." If it is, then well, there is a real deep problem, IMO. I guess I've had a bad mood. occasionally. Everybody's human, nobody's is ever perfect all the time, and I am rambling,. I am sure people get my point. Enough said. 

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 3:20:05 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

It has been my experience, whether on the boards or in real life, the points brought up that upset or anger me the most are the ones I need to take a closer look at. 
I ask myself these questions:
What is it about that topic that makes it a hot-button for me?
What is it about that comment that creates a feeling of defensiveness?
 
I find it far more productive to explore and analyze my own reactions than to expect others to change how they express themselves or voice their opinions.


The more of this thread I read the more I want to interject this every 10 minutes.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 3:57:37 PM   
gypsygrl


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Sometimes I'm struck by how harsh people can be in cyber space.  I don't really worry about the newbies, and I'm not the sort of person who goes out of my way looking to coddle or protect anyone who's feelings might be hurt by an off hand comment.  I worry about me, and every once in a while I get a response to something I say in a thread, and its a great big owie that makes me wonder what I did to deserve it.  So, rather than respond right away, I go back and figure out what I said and why it got that kind of response.  Sometimes I can figure it out, other times I have to chalk it up to the fact that the universe hates me.

I dunno if I have a point.  I like the different personalities on the board.  I don't directly engage a lot of them, mostly because they scare me, but that doesn't mean they should necessarily change their posting behavior.  I think if everyone were nice and polite and diplomatic and kind and gentle all the time, the boards would quickly become some really frightening stepford wives kind of place.  I'd rather have people being mean and snarky in a straightforward honest way than putting up a false front of patronizing niceness. 








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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 4:11:35 PM   
agirl


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I'm not sure it is intended to accomplish anything. You have to bear in mind that taking part in a discussion forum isn't a huge thing for many people. I'd be very concerned if my children took forum postings to heart. It's throwaway stuff, it's folk from all sorts of situations, from all over the world, different cultures etc...... with little knowledge of theirs and they know that. They share a basic common interest and that's all.

The majority of people are quite considered in their responses here, taking a broad view.

agirl






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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 4:12:42 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Susan, in your tenure here you've made plenty of posts yourself which you recanted and apologized about afterwards (a few specifically to me), and plenty of posts which people CALLED inappropriate which you said were perfectly fine.

So ask yourself- why did YOU make those posts which you are talking about?  And what did YOU think when someone said you posted inappropriately but you considered perfectly fine?

There's your answer. 

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 5:44:18 PM   
asubmissiveheart


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This was indeed a great post, and the mean and nasty among us know who they are.

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 5:48:24 PM   
StellaByStarlite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite

Hey, Susan. =)

The biggest problem with message boards, and online communication in general, is that it's incomplete. No tone, no body language. There's only the typed word. Language is a beautiful thing, but humans need more to effectively communicate. These forums only show one very small side of us, so misunderstandings are pretty rampant. I think people tend to get in trouble when they mistake forums or chatrooms for real socialization. There really is no substitute for reality.

Stella


I do not agree with the sentence that I bolded.  I think face to face communication can make effective communication easier or it could not.  I do not need face to face communication to communicate effectively.  For about a year, I have effectively communicated via the written word only with another slave from CM.  Her and I have had some wonderful conversations.  We have both grown and leanred from them and had quite a few laughs.  To say it is not reality because it is written only, seems highly narrow-minded.

Knight's kyra



Hey, kyra =)

I'm not saying that it's impossible to have good communication with some people online. But it's just no substitute for reality. Being a 12 year veteran of all kinds of message board, I've also had wonderful discussions. But think of how much more rich and full these online friendships could be if they were face-face.
The fact that my post struck you as highly narrow-minded just illustrates my point. Why would you assume me to be highly
narrow minded from one short paragraph? lol.

Cheers,
Stella

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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 6:18:17 PM   
SusanofO


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Actually, I don't expect people to change. I think it happens less often than it does happen, but IMO it happens more frequently than it ever has to. I don't care why it happens. I still really do find it, when it happens, to be unproductive, and bitchy. I am not defending my position. It's an opinion. People don't like remarks to be called un-productive and bitchy. I get that. Well, some really are sometimes, no matter how they want to dress it up, IMO. I think it sucks, as a general concept.


It's an observation after 2 years. It is a general observation. Saying nothing can be done, IMO,  is just plain not true. However - 

I am not expecting it to change, I'm just thinking it would be interesting for some to be more experimental in therir responses, when it happens. Not on auti-pliot, or necessarily vengeful or giving same. Could be interesting, if not effective. Personally, I opt for ignoring it if I am tired, or if that proves to be effective. If not, then  there are definitely other options in the table, IMO. And I am talking about extreme rudeness. Of course defining what that actually consists of, is apparently a problem. I don't have problem defining it, and am just going to go with my own instincts, if I see it happen. I don't care what enyone else does, really, about it. If anything.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/11/2007 6:41:20 PM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Happy Experiences vs. Problems vs. "Questions&... - 3/11/2007 6:37:14 PM   
sub4hire


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I've been here longer than most.  Seen a lot of good people come and go.  There are still a lot of good people here.  Some bad.
I intentionally don't read many of the post's here.  I avoid those that I cannot offer anything good to say.  Reason being I don't want to sound overly harsh when someone who should know better doesn't.  Then almost ends up hurt.

Yet, I am quite sure I do sound harsh because I am blunt and to the point.  Yet, those who matter know that. 
You opened yourself up in the last post.  You didn't like the responses by some.  However when you open yourself up to the world at large you have to expect people to chime in, in a way you don't deem perfect.  You have to expect the good and the bad.  Life is not all warm fuzzies.
What would your best friend have said to you in person?  Would they had said...oh its ok.  You could have lost your life by travelling cross country to meet a complete stranger whom you didn't even know his real name?
It's ok though.  Lesson learned or not, maybe it will happen again but hey give me a big hug?

You have said over and over it is not about you.  Clearly you are defending that fact so hard that there is nobody else it could be.  In reality it doesn't even matter who it is about. 
Most people are adults here and they understand they have to take the good with the bad.  Ignore those who are out to hurt them.
Embrace those who help.  It is the way discussion boards are.  If you can't handle it you probably shouldn't open yourself up anymore?  Or grow a thicker skin.

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