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RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 5:38:00 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I've learned that when I present absolute proof, 



Would you mind providing a post on any thread where you presented absolute proof?

Most of what I read that you post is anti-leftist gibberish.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 5:41:28 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

True the document turned out to be a forgery but it was discovered after the presidents state of the union speach.



Who discovered it, Sternhand4?

quote:



More importantly Joe didnt expose the forgery's till after the goverment did



[sarcasm]

That explains why they blew his wife's cover.

 
[/sarcasm]
 
Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sternhand4)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 6:06:36 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
On Plame herself, and her political activities, not her husbands:


Plames Political Contributions:


Contributor              Candidate or PAC                               Amount       Date
Wilson, Valerie E    AMERICA COMING TOGETHER                    $372           10/11/04
Wilson, Valerie E.    GORE, AL (D)                                        $1,000        04/22/99



America Coming Together:

America Coming Together, commonly abbreviated ACT, is a 527 committe dedicated to get-out-the-vote activities. ACT does not specifically endorse any political party, but instead endorses all progressive parties.

American Coming Together:

America Coming Together, 2004 Election Cycle

Formed: July 2003 | Web Site

One of the leading Democratic interest groups dedicated to defeating President Bush in November. Run by longtime Democratic operatives and financed in part by wealthy Democratic donors, the group plans a massive voter mobilization effort in 17 battleground states.

 Affiliated Personnel:

  • Ellen Malcolm, president (president, EMILY's List)
  • Steve Rosenthal, chief executive officer (former political director, AFL-CIO)
  • Minyon Moore (former Chief of Operations, Democratic National Committee)
  • Carl Pope, treasurer (executive director, Sierra Club)
  • Cecile Richards (president, America Votes)
  • Andy Stern (president, Service Employees International Union)
    Donors:

  • Peter Lewis (chairman, Progressive Corp.), $10 million pledge
  • George Soros (financier), $10 million pledge
  • Sierra Club
  • $8 million pledged from labor groups, including SEIU

  • Draw your own conclusions.

    FirmKY



    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to puella)
    Profile   Post #: 83
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 6:21:49 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    On Plame herself, and her political activities, not her husbands:


    Plames Political Contributions:


    Contributor              Candidate or PAC                               Amount       Date
    Wilson, Valerie E    AMERICA COMING TOGETHER                    $372           10/11/04
    Wilson, Valerie E.    GORE, AL (D)                                        $1,000        04/22/99



    America Coming Together:


    America Coming Together, commonly abbreviated ACT, is a 527 committe dedicated to get-out-the-vote activities. ACT does not specifically endorse any political party, but instead endorses all progressive parties.

    American Coming Together:


    America Coming Together, 2004 Election Cycle

    Formed: July 2003 | Web Site

    One of the leading Democratic interest groups dedicated to defeating President Bush in November. Run by longtime Democratic operatives and financed in part by wealthy Democratic donors, the group plans a massive voter mobilization effort in 17 battleground states.

    Affiliated Personnel:



  • Ellen Malcolm, president (president, EMILY's List)
  • Steve Rosenthal, chief executive officer (former political director, AFL-CIO)
  • Minyon Moore (former Chief of Operations, Democratic National Committee)
  • Carl Pope, treasurer (executive director, Sierra Club)
  • Cecile Richards (president, America Votes)
  • Andy Stern (president, Service Employees International Union)
    Donors:


  • Peter Lewis (chairman, Progressive Corp.), $10 million pledge
  • George Soros (financier), $10 million pledge
  • Sierra Club
  • $8 million pledged from labor groups, including SEIU


  • Draw your own conclusions.

    FirmKY




    [sarcasm]

    I am with you 100%, Damn straight she got outted as a covert operative for the CIA.  Fucking liberal whore.

    [/sarcasm]

    Sinergy

    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 84
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 6:35:23 PM   
    farglebargle


    Posts: 10715
    Joined: 6/15/2005
    From: Albany, NY
    Status: offline
    Oh NO! The Peter Lewis/SEIU faction has re-united!!!

    Don't you understand what that means in terms of the advance of Socialism in America???

    Doomed! We're DOOMED!



    _____________________________

    It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

    ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 85
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 7:28:04 PM   
    FirmhandKY


    Posts: 8948
    Joined: 9/21/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    [sarcasm]

    I am with you 100%, Damn straight she got outted as a covert operative for the CIA.  Fucking liberal whore.

    [/sarcasm]


    Perhaps you miss my point.

    My point is that all of us shape our actions to conform with our beliefs and biases.  It's something that we just do, as humans.

    My pointing out the information about Plame and Wilson is to show that all indications are that their philosophical and political sympathies lie with the anti-Bush crowd, and therefore it is reasonable to believe that actions, words and thoughts that are negative towards the Bush side of the political divide may occur and color their views.

    Pretty simple concept.  I don't think I've called anyone names, or engaged in any type of commentary that you can find fault with, other than if you are displaying your own biases and prejudices.

    FirmKY

    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 86
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 7:31:10 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    [sarcasm]

    I am with you 100%, Damn straight she got outted as a covert operative for the CIA.  Fucking liberal whore.

    [/sarcasm]


    Perhaps you miss my point.

    My point is that all of us shape our actions to conform with our beliefs and biases.  It's something that we just do, as humans.

    My pointing out the information about Plame and Wilson is to show that all indications are that their philosophical and political sympathies lie with the anti-Bush crowd, and therefore it is reasonable to believe that actions, words and thoughts that are negative towards the Bush side of the political divide may occur and color their views.

    Pretty simple concept.  I don't think I've called anyone names, or engaged in any type of commentary that you can find fault with, other than if you are displaying your own biases and prejudices.

    FirmKY


    You seem to be deflecting the issue.

    She was a covert CIA agent who was illegally exposed by a member of Monkeyboy's administration.

    There are federal laws against engaging in that sort of behavior.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative or Democrat or Republican or the Easter Bunny.

    You are well within your rights to continue posting non sequiter nonsense, and I suppose I am well within my rights to continue to respond sarcastically.

    Enjoy your evening,

    Sinergy

    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 87
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 7:32:22 PM   
    FirmhandKY


    Posts: 8948
    Joined: 9/21/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: farglebargle

    Oh NO! The Peter Lewis/SEIU faction has re-united!!!

    Don't you understand what that means in terms of the advance of Socialism in America???

    Doomed! We're DOOMED!


    Kinda funny.

    Kinda.

    FirmKY


    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to farglebargle)
    Profile   Post #: 88
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 7:33:37 PM   
    FirmhandKY


    Posts: 8948
    Joined: 9/21/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    You seem to be deflecting the issue.

    She was a covert CIA agent who was illegally exposed by a member of Monkeyboy's administration.

    There are federal laws against engaging in that sort of behavior.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with liberal or conservative or Democrat or Republican or the Easter Bunny.

    You are well within your rights to continue posting non sequiter nonsense, and I suppose I am well within my rights to continue to respond sarcastically.


    You seem not to understand the topic of the thread.

    FirmKY


    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 89
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 7:58:47 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: puella

    After all the important information that was revealed and with all that was yet needed to be known, after hearing testimony about how losing the job she spent all her energies in training for, and the critical importance of the things she was working on.... and after whining about not having enough time.... that was what he wanted on the official record...

    After all woman has been put through for so many years with this whole situation, when all she did was serve her country well. surely some one needed to say:
     "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?  Have you left no sense of decency?"





    I suppose you are correct, FirmKY.

    This thread was about partisan bickering instead of the fact that Monkeyboy and his tribe exposed, based on political interests, a woman who had spent her life training and working to be a covert CIA operative.

    I totally agree with your statement that one of us has lost track of what this entire thread was about.

    Enjoy your evening,

    Sinergy

    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to puella)
    Profile   Post #: 90
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 8:09:41 PM   
    FirmhandKY


    Posts: 8948
    Joined: 9/21/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    I suppose you are correct, FirmKY.

    This thread was about partisan bickering instead of the fact that Monkeyboy and his tribe exposed, based on political interests, a woman who had spent her life training and working to be a covert CIA operative.

    I totally agree with your statement that one of us has lost track of what this entire thread was about.


    Nice attempt at recovery, sinergy.

    It's "partisan bickering" when one side or the other doesn't want to bring up the possibility of partisan activities that may cast "their side" in a negative light.

    It's a reasonable explanation of motives and activities if you are on the other side.

    That's how the "game" of politics are played in the US today, for good or bad.

    FirmKY


    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 91
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 8:22:13 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    Nice attempt at recovery, sinergy.



    You tell me I lost track of what the thread was about.

    I quote the original poster.

    You tell me I made a nice attempt at recovery.

    It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes an even bigger person to say they are wrong.

    I am not interested in arguing with you, FirmhandKY.  Feel free to say whatever you want to say
    to try to defend the Bush administration's illegally compromising the identity of a covert agent.  Feel
    free to state that it is the liberals who made it a partisan issue.  Feel free to try to empirically prove
    that up is down and the earth is flat.

    I personally dont care whether your brain is coded to accept input, so enjoy your evening.

    Sinergy

    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 92
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:22:57 PM   
    farglebargle


    Posts: 10715
    Joined: 6/15/2005
    From: Albany, NY
    Status: offline
    From the law itself:

    quote:


    (4) The term "covert agent" means -

    (A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed
    Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -


    Valerie Plame, at the time of Novak's article was an employee of an intelligence agency.

    quote:


    (i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and


    quote:


    MS. PLAME WILSON: Congressman, thank you for the opportunity. I know I'm here under oath and I'm here to say that I was a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency. J


    quote:


    (ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States;


    quote:


    REP. DAVIS: The Intelligence Identities Protection Act makes it a crime to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert agent, which has a specific definition under the act. Did anyone ever tell you that you were so designated?

    MS. PLAME WILSON: I'm not a lawyer.

    REP. DAVIS: That's why I asked if they told you. I'm not asking for your interpretation.

    MS. PLAME WILSON: No, no. But I was covert. I did travel overseas on secret missions within the last five years.


    Under Oath. IF y'all think she wasn't covered under the "Covert" definition, then you're saying she lied under oath.

    If y'all got evidence of her committing Perjury, bring it on.

    _____________________________

    It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

    ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 93
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:25:18 PM   
    FirmhandKY


    Posts: 8948
    Joined: 9/21/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    Nice attempt at recovery, sinergy.



    You tell me I lost track of what the thread was about.

    I quote the original poster.

    You tell me I made a nice attempt at recovery.

    It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes an even bigger person to say they are wrong.

    I am not interested in arguing with you, FirmhandKY.  Feel free to say whatever you want to say to try to defend the Bush administration's illegally compromising the identity of a covert agent.  Feel free to state that it is the liberals who made it a partisan issue.  Feel free to try to empirically prove that up is down and the earth is flat.

    I personally dont care whether your brain is coded to accept input, so enjoy your evening.

    Sinergy


    Perhaps if you'd spend less time trying to be all sarcastically funny, we might be able to actually have a real conversation and debate, rather than constant "partisan bickering".

    But when the majority of your posts are phrased in sarcastic terms, it's difficult to know if you are agreeing, or disagreeing.  Or what your point is, other than the belittlement of your rhetoric opponent.

    FirmKY


    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to Sinergy)
    Profile   Post #: 94
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:26:42 PM   
    juliaoceania


    Posts: 21383
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    From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: puella

    Sanity, Joe Wilson was 100% correct.  There was no purchase of yellow cake uranium in Niger.  The papers were the crudest of forgeries.  Do you do any research at all?

    Oh stop it with all your facts and information! Everyone can plainly see that all this information is clearly biased! Kinda like the evidence that the Bush Admin cherry picked to justify invading Iraq

    Seriously, I wish that Sanity would show a little sanity and stop exclaiming about all this "evidence" he has at his disposal and either put it up or shut it up.

    _____________________________

    Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

    Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

    Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

    (in reply to puella)
    Profile   Post #: 95
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:30:16 PM   
    farglebargle


    Posts: 10715
    Joined: 6/15/2005
    From: Albany, NY
    Status: offline
    quote:

    Kinda like the evidence that the Bush Admin cherry picked to justify invading Iraq


    We like to call them, "Overt Acts A-N"

    quote:


    Overt Acts

    A. On December 9, 2001, CHENEY announced on NBC's Meet the Press that "it was pretty well confirmed" that lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta had met the head of Iraqi intelligence in Prague in April 2001, which statement was, as CHENEY well knew, made without reasonable basis and with reckless disregard for the truth, because it was based on a single witness's uncorroborated allegation that had not been fully investigated by U.S. intelligence agencies.

    B. On July 15, 2002, POWELL stated on Ted Koppel's Nightline: "What we have consistently said is that the President has no plan on his desk to invade Iraq at the moment, nor has one been presented to him, nor have his advisors come together to put a plan to him," which statement was deliberately false and misleading in that it deceitfully implied the President was not planning an invasion of Iraq when, as POWELL well knew, the President was close to finalizing detailed military plans for such an invasion that he had ordered months previously.

    C. On August 26, 2002, CHENEY made numerous false and fraudulent statements including: "Simply stated there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us," when, as CHENEY well knew, this statement was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that the IC's then prevailing assessment was that Iraq had neither nuclear weapons nor a reconstituted nuclear weapons program.

    D. On September 7, 2002, appearing publicly with Blair, BUSH claimed a recent IAEA report stated that Iraq was "six months away from developing a [nuclear] weapon" and "I don't know what more evidence we need," which statements were made without basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that: (1) the IAEA had not even been present in Iraq since 1998; and (2) the report the IAEA did write in 1998 had concluded there was no indication that Iraq had the physical capacity to produce weapons-usable nuclear material or that it had attempted to obtain such material.

    E. On September 8, 2002, on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, RICE asserted that Saddam Hussein was acquiring aluminum tubes that were "only suited" for nuclear centrifuge use, which statement was deliberately false and fraudulent, and made with reckless indifference to the truth in that it omitted to state the following material facts: (1) the U.S. intelligence community was deeply divided about the likely use of the tubes; (2) there were at least fifteen intelligence reports written since April 2001 that cast doubt on the tubes' possible nuclear-related use; and (3) the U.S. Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts had concluded, after analyzing the tubes's specifications and the circumstances of the Iraqis' attempts to procure them, that the aluminum tubes were not well suited for nuclear centrifuge use and were more likely intended for artillery rocket production.

    F. On September 8, 2002, RUMSFELD stated on Face the Nation: "Imagine a September 11th, with weapons of mass destruction. It's not three thousand, it's tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children," which statement was deliberately fraudulent and misleading in that it implied without reasonable basis and in direct contradiction to then prevailing intelligence that Saddam Hussein had no operational relationship with al Qaeda and was unlikely to provide weapons to terrorists.

    G. On September 19, 2002, RUMSFELD told the Senate Armed Services Committee that "no terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein," which statement was, as Rumsfeld well knew, made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that: (1) Hussein had not acted aggressively toward the United States since his alleged attempt to assassinate President George H. W. Bush in 1993; (2) Iraq's military forces and equipment were severely debilitated because of UN sanctions imposed after the 1991 Gulf War; (3) the IC's opinion was that Iraq's sponsorship of terrorists was limited to ones whose hostility was directed toward Israel; and (4) Iran, not Iraq, was the most active state sponsor of terrorism.

    H. On October 1, 2002, the defendants caused the IC's updated classified National Intelligence Estimate to be delivered to Congress just hours before the beginning of debate on the Authorization to Use Military Force. At the same time, the defendants caused an unclassified "White Paper" to be published which was false and misleading in many respects in that it failed to include qualifying language and dissents that substantially weakened their argument that Iraq posed a serious threat to the United States.

    I. On October 7, 2002, in Cincinnati, Ohio, BUSH made numerous deliberately misleading statements to the nation, including stating that in comparison to Iran and North Korea, Iraq posed a uniquely serious threat, which statement BUSH well knew was false and fraudulent in that it omitted to state the material fact that a State Department representative had been informed just three days previously that North Korea had actually already produced nuclear weapons. The defendants continued to conceal this information until after Congress passed the Authorization to Use Military Force against Iraq.

    J. Between September 1, 2002, and November 2, 2002, BUSH traveled the country making in excess of thirty congressional-campaign speeches in which he falsely and fraudulently asserted that Iraq was a "serious threat" which required immediate action, when as he well knew, this assertion was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth.

    K. In his January 28, 2003 State of the Union address, BUSH announced that the "British have recently learned that Iraq was seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa" which statement was fraudulent and misleading and made with reckless disregard for the truth, in that it falsely implied that the information was true, when the CIA had advised the administration more than once that the allegation was unsupported by available intelligence.

    L. In a February 5, 2003, speech to the UN, POWELL falsely implied, without reasonable basis and with reckless disregard for the truth, that, among other things: (1) those who maintained that Iraq was purchasing aluminum tubes for rockets were allied with Saddam Hussein, even though POWELL well knew that both Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts and State Department intelligence analysts had concluded that the tubes were not suited for nuclear centrifuge use; and (2) Iraq had an ongoing cooperative relationship with al Qaeda, when he well knew that no intelligence agency had reached that conclusion.

    M. On March 18, 2003, BUSH sent a letter to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate which asserted that further reliance on diplomatic and peaceful means alone would not either: (1) adequately protect United States national security against the "continuing threat posed by Iraq" or (2) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant UN Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, which statement was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that, as BUSH well knew, the U.S. intelligence community had never reported that Iraq posed an urgent threat to the United States and there was no evidence whatsoever to prove that Iraq had either the means or intent to attack the U.S. directly or indirectly. The statement was also false because, as BUSH well knew, the UN weapons inspectors had not found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and wanted to continue the inspection process because it was working well.

    N. In the same March 18, 2003 letter, BUSH also represented that taking action pursuant to the Resolution was "consistent with continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001," which statement was entirely false and without reasonable basis in that, as BUSH well knew, Iraq had no involvement with al Qaeda or the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

    All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 371.





    _____________________________

    It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

    ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

    (in reply to juliaoceania)
    Profile   Post #: 96
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:32:30 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    Nice attempt at recovery, sinergy.



    You tell me I lost track of what the thread was about.

    I quote the original poster.

    You tell me I made a nice attempt at recovery.

    It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes an even bigger person to say they are wrong.

    I am not interested in arguing with you, FirmhandKY.  Feel free to say whatever you want to say to try to defend the Bush administration's illegally compromising the identity of a covert agent.  Feel free to state that it is the liberals who made it a partisan issue.  Feel free to try to empirically prove that up is down and the earth is flat.

    I personally dont care whether your brain is coded to accept input, so enjoy your evening.

    Sinergy


    Perhaps if you'd spend less time trying to be all sarcastically funny, we might be able to actually have a real conversation and debate, rather than constant "partisan bickering".

    But when the majority of your posts are phrased in sarcastic terms, it's difficult to know if you are agreeing, or disagreeing.  Or what your point is, other than the belittlement of your rhetoric opponent.

    FirmKY




    Interesting approach.  You do not provide evidence.  You do not make a coherent argument.  You simply attack me for being unclear.

    As I mentioned before FirmhandKY, I really am not interested in arguing with you.  If you have some evidence to bring to the table suggesting I am incorrect, or to support your point, I would be willing to read and/or respond to it.

    But if the best you can do is to try to pick a fight \by trying to insult me, I would enjoy pointing out that one of my jobs (I get paid for it) is to pick fights with people.  Accordingly, you are an untrained amateur and should go back to 5th grade to learn how to succeed at it.

    I wish you success.

    Sinergy

    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 97
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 9:53:36 PM   
    puella


    Posts: 2457
    Joined: 12/2/2004
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    Geez, I go out for a movie and all tangental hell breaks loose! hehe (BTW wait for Zodiac to come out on dvd, good enough movie, waaaaaaaay too long for the premice)

    Okay, let me collect myself hear and try to wade through some of this.

    Firstly, you must be very careful about wikipedia. Personally, I do not like to use it as a legitimate reference site as anyone can slap content onto it and make something 'so'.  There is another funny Colbert story about this, I forgot exactly what he had his viewers do but they effectively changed an entry to make something really stupid (and false) become part of the facts listed on the wikipedia site about elephants.... anyway.

    Right at the top of that page you took all that information from it says:








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    That is a pretty good indication, to me to take all of what is to come with something of a grain of salt, if to bother reading it at all, but I did go through some of what you had pointed out.



     
    From what I recall of my previous readings and archived titbits of this issue (and that was some time ago), some news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington. At the time, Bush-bashing was (no doubt reluctantly) confined to an unusual backseat as the press was closing ranks around two of its own, namely, the Times's Judith Miller and Time's Matthew Cooper, who were threatened with jail for defying grand jury subpoenas from the special prosecutor...the NY Times, especially, spearheading the campaign, encouraged its submission.

    The thrust of their brief was that reporters should not be held in contempt or forced to reveal their sources in the Plame investigation because, the media organizations confidently asserted, no crime had been committed. Now, that is stunning enough given the pernicious shroud the press had consciously cast over this story up to that point. Even more remarkable, though, were the key details these self-styled guardians of the public's right to know (whilst simultaenously whoring themsleves out for access) stressed as being of the utmost importance for the court to grasp , the results of which those same guardians have assiduously suppressed from the coverage actually presented to the public.

    The 1982 law prohibiting disclosure of undercover agents' identities explicitly sets forth a definition of this crime. It is contained in Section 422 (of Title 50, U.S. Code), and it provides that an accused leaker is in the clear if, sometime before the leak, "the United States ha publicly acknowledged or revealed" the covert agent's "intelligence relationship to the United States..."

    The media organizations informed the court that long before the Novak revelation, Plame's cover was blown not once but twice. The media based this contention on the reporting of one journalist, Bill Gertz (who works for the decidedly right leaning Washington Times). As the media alleged to the judges (in Footnote 7, page 8, of their brief), Plame's identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a spy in Moscow. Unfortunately, they had nothing but gossip and unsubtantiated claims to back up their assertions, but neither did they mention the incident idly. For if, as he has famously suggested, President Bush has peered into the soul of Vladimir Putin, what he has no doubt seen is the thriving spirit of the KGB, of which the Russian president was a hardcore agent. The Kremlin still spies on the United States. It remains in the business of compromising U.S. intelligence operations. Thus, the media's purpose in highlighting this incident is blatant: If Plame was outed to the former Soviet Union a decade ago, there can have been little, if anything, left of actual intelligence value in her "every operation, every relationship, every network" by the time anyone spoke with Novak. Unfortunatly for them, it would have made absolutely no sense (or worth) for the CIA to further use her as an agent, when the potential casualities it could could produce would be more than costly..... again, had there been any substantiated truth in it.

    Of greater weight to the criminal investigation is the second disclosure urged by the media organizations on the court. Though they didn't have any real date(or much information) on this one, they did informe the judges that it was "more recent" than the Russian outing but "prior to Novak's publication." And it is priceless. The press informed the judges that the CIA itself "inadvertently" compromised Plame by not taking appropriate measures to safeguard classified documents that the Agency routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana.

    The defense in Section 422 requires that the revelation by the United States have been done "publicly." In short, as there was no way this leak could have gotten beyond the highest levels in the Swiss (ally)Embassy, there was no leak. At least one U.S. official stated that because the Havana snafu was not "publicized" or made public, it did not breach her covert status.

    In the end the specious Amicus Curiae filed by the news agencies was thrown out of court for lack of substantiated proof of their claim regarding the 'Russian spy' allegation (and the top CIA officials testifying that it was untrue) and because the CIA itself proved that the incident in Cuba did not compromise her identity and covert status. The personal security of a covert agent and her family can be a major concern when secrecy is pierced. There is no reason to believe (and a Federal Court also ruled this way) that the CIA would put Valerie Wilson, her family, a very costly in crucial covert operation (Brewster Jennings) regarding nuclear counter-proliferation, and all the other agents working on that operation, some who could be in direct, physical harms way, in that kind of senseless, useless danger.

    That was a bit longer of a nutshell than I had anticpated, sorry!






    < Message edited by puella -- 3/17/2007 10:04:56 PM >


    _____________________________

    We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

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    "Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 98
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 10:02:30 PM   
    Sinergy


    Posts: 9383
    Joined: 4/26/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Sinergy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    Nice attempt at recovery, sinergy.



    You tell me I lost track of what the thread was about.

    I quote the original poster.

    You tell me I made a nice attempt at recovery.

    It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes an even bigger person to say they are wrong.

    I am not interested in arguing with you, FirmhandKY.  Feel free to say whatever you want to say to try to defend the Bush administration's illegally compromising the identity of a covert agent.  Feel free to state that it is the liberals who made it a partisan issue.  Feel free to try to empirically prove that up is down and the earth is flat.

    I personally dont care whether your brain is coded to accept input, so enjoy your evening.

    Sinergy


    Perhaps if you'd spend less time trying to be all sarcastically funny, we might be able to actually have a real conversation and debate, rather than constant "partisan bickering".

    But when the majority of your posts are phrased in sarcastic terms, it's difficult to know if you are agreeing, or disagreeing.  Or what your point is, other than the belittlement of your rhetoric opponent.

    FirmKY



    You are almost amusing, FirmhandKy.  So I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Would you please make a response to this thread that has something to do with what this thread is about, as opposed to your idiotic attempts to attack me personally and my position?

    When you are capable of providing an intelligent or cogent argument either sustaining or negating the original posters thread, then I will consider your posts remotely relevant to the discussion.

    Sinergy

    _____________________________

    "There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
    David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

    "Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 99
    RE: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? H... - 3/17/2007 10:03:28 PM   
    dcnovice


    Posts: 37282
    Joined: 8/2/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    I think there are some valid questions about how they have both framed things.  What they have claimed as facts, and how they have acted.


    Fair enough. What have they claimed as facts that you disagree with?

    _____________________________

    No matter how cynical you become,
    it's never enough to keep up.

    JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
    INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 100
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