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RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 10:09:41 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Ron told the story, Firmhand. I'll add:

Individuals retain sovereignty over their rights.
 
Locke's stance seems inconsistent with imposing a value system upon a people.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 201
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 10:22:25 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Individuals retain sovereignty over their rights.

 
But you personally don't believe that NG do you? You are in favor of imposing a value system upon a people consistent with your views regarding relatively minor issues such as smoking and diet; as well as major issues such as redistribution of wealth, and national sovereignty in general.

You seek a world were individual "rights" are as you, and those who agree with you, define them. I won't argue that those in positions 180 degrees in opposition have that same goal in mind. I only point to it as a response to the quote you used, and to ask if you have it as a general reference to Locke or a point of your position.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 202
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 11:42:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Try the "Purpose of the State and the Social Contract" thread for some ideas.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 203
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 11:45:34 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Try the "Purpose of the State and the Social Contract" thread for some ideas.
No thanks. Your obtuse answer to a simple question; "I only point to it as a response to the quote you used, and to ask if you have it as a general reference to Locke or a point of your position." is answer enough.

Thanks for confirmation and clarifying.

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Profile   Post #: 204
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 11:48:23 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I agree our right to bear arms must always be protected and I can understand the NRA's fight against any form of "banning" weapons from assault rifles on down the list to "cop killer" bullets...If you give an inch they will take a mile...And it won't be long till they are coming after your handguns and hunting rifles.

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RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 6:25:07 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I agree our right to bear arms must always be protected and I can understand the NRA's fight against any form of "banning" weapons from assault rifles on down the list to "cop killer" bullets...If you give an inch they will take a mile...And it won't be long till they are coming after your handguns and hunting rifles.


well interestingly the costitution specifically states arms....  heh heh... therefore we can have a bazooka if we want or an f16 by strict definition.  LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 206
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/26/2007 7:01:38 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I agree our right to bear arms must always be protected and I can understand the NRA's fight against any form of "banning" weapons from assault rifles on down the list to "cop killer" bullets...If you give an inch they will take a mile...And it won't be long till they are coming after your handguns and hunting rifles.


well interestingly the costitution specifically states arms....  heh heh... therefore we can have a bazooka if we want or an f16 by strict definition.  LOL


I've seen the same arguments, R0, and they sound pretty good with me as well.

Although, they couldn't quite get the private ownership of nuclear weapons fitted it ....

FirmKY


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 207
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/27/2007 6:50:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I agree our right to bear arms must always be protected and I can understand the NRA's fight against any form of "banning" weapons from assault rifles on down the list to "cop killer" bullets...If you give an inch they will take a mile...And it won't be long till they are coming after your handguns and hunting rifles.


well interestingly the costitution specifically states arms....  heh heh... therefore we can have a bazooka if we want or an f16 by strict definition.  LOL


I've seen the same arguments, R0, and they sound pretty good with me as well.

Although, they couldn't quite get the private ownership of nuclear weapons fitted it ....

FirmKY



yeh and i dont think i could fit one in my garage either.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 208
RE: Sure you been in the same century as most of Us? - 3/31/2007 2:17:20 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Why didn't Bill Clinton go under oath to explain his firing of all 93 prosecuters?? Talk about a double standard.

My question to you is why do the Bush administration fear BEING under oath to testify?

It seems the tip of the iceberg is being seen and the administration is steaming full speed toward it.

Some never seem to learn from history.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 209
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 3/31/2007 2:19:59 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Might you then explain this:
Gingrich had affair while hounding Clinton over Monica
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1495077.ece

If that is not hypocracy showings what might be?


Your ease of assuming facts not in evidence is what is showing.




Just what is it again that I am assuming here?

When someone admits to something or it is proven how might that be an assumption?

Some of the Republicans at least had the decency (or fear to be found ourt) to sep aside as they were also guilty of such hedonistic pleasures.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 210
RE: latest emails relating to the firings of U.S.RE: Ge... - 3/31/2007 2:21:58 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Transdromeda

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

bush and nixon in the same post?     egads.

Last night, the Justice Department released the latest emails relating to the firings of U.S. Attorneys. They appear to further implicate Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales in the affair.

Read the Karl Rove email
 
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/doj/smpsnwh105emails.html

actual copy of it

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©



what affair??? the president has the right to fire any us attourny he wants to at any time for any reason like Clinton firing all 93 attorneys.  That is his power according to the constitution.  He has the right to have his attourneys on board with his priorities.  there is no scandal here.  His mistake is trying to explain something that needs no explanation.  The same way he can fire any of his cabinet or generals.


Six days later and do you still feel the same now that things are starting to come to light?

What about that little thing call testifying under oath?
Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to Transdromeda)
Profile   Post #: 211
RE: If you remember your history th election was stolen... - 3/31/2007 2:25:29 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


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Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Transdromeda

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

[If you remember your history th election was stolen from us...we did not really elect him...


the election was not stolen. the ballots were designed and approved by democrats.  if the people voting knew there was a problem with their vote they would have revoted.  the butterfly ballot has been used succesfully in thousands of other precints and elections.  I used it once i just made sure the hole and the line went to the person i meant it to and that was before 2000 i was smart enough to check that.   The supreme court stepped in because there was a standard way of interpreting ballots that the florida supreme court was trying to change in the middle of an election.  If that was allowed to stand no future election would be safe from changing rules and every election would end up in court.   The democrats tried to deny the absentee military ballots from being included and when Gore got his recounts he didnt recount the whole state just the counties that would be beneficial to him.  which is an illegal recount.  later there were found errors in bushs favor in counties favorable to him which erros in Gore's favor didnt offset.  


No. It was stolen.

Misappropriated.

Messed with.

The only reason it did not go to court and be dealt with in the correct maner is the country would have experienced termoil and discorse that would have been far worse than to have the election stolen.

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to Transdromeda)
Profile   Post #: 212
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 3/31/2007 12:33:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Might you then explain this:

Gingrich had affair while hounding Clinton over Monica

[long url removed]

If that is not hypocracy showings what might be?


Your ease of assuming facts not in evidence is what is showing.
Just what is it again that I am assuming here?

When someone admits to something or it is proven how might that be an assumption?

Some of the Republicans at least had the decency (or fear to be found ourt) to sep aside as they were also guilty of such hedonistic pleasures.


Perhaps too much time has gone by, and you don't remember the actual conversation.

It would help if you actually quoted what I said, and not attempt to redact the actual point I made, nor the point of yours that I was refuting.

In my post 19, addressing FB:

It's a show trial.  Just as the Plame hearings were show trials.

Your response in post 76:

Might you then explain this:

Gingrich had affair while hounding Clinton over Monica

[long url removed]

If that is not hypocracy showings what might be?

My full quote in post 100 is:

Your ease of assuming facts not in evidence is what is showing.

Of course that was a show trial as well.

It was wrong then.  It is wrong now.  The criminalization of political dissent is one of the worst things to happen to our republic in the last 50 years.

You are attempting to say I was a hypocrite, because of the Republican attempts to impeach Clinton Administration, involving the Lewinsky affair.

Your "ease of assuming facts not in evidence" error is in assuming that I think that those attempts would not be considered "show trials".  I think they were as well.

Any questions?

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/31/2007 12:36:36 PM >

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RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 3/31/2007 1:51:18 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Stop these deflection tactics FirmhandKY ... tell us what we really want to know.
 
Who exactly was craving power to the point that they were willing to have an affair with Newt Gingrich?  

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Profile   Post #: 214
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 3/31/2007 4:11:49 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Stop these deflection tactics FirmhandKY ... tell us what we really want to know.

Who exactly was craving power to the point that they were willing to have an affair with Newt Gingrich?


RUSH

LIMBAUGH



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 215
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/31/2007 5:44:30 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Technically the F16 is a vehicle right?  You can take the weopons off of it, and just fly it around.  I am not sure we have the right to any sort of vehicle we want.  Sure, lets make bazookas legal, though lets have the death penalty for misuse/negligence. 

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Profile   Post #: 216
RE: HEY - Screw the 17th Amendment! - 3/31/2007 6:06:19 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Technically the F16 is a vehicle right?  You can take the weopons off of it, and just fly it around.  I am not sure we have the right to any sort of vehicle we want.  Sure, lets make bazookas legal, though lets have the death penalty for misuse/negligence. 


Who defines "misuse" and "negligence?"

It is a slippery slope.  Give the power to define "misuse" and "negligence" to the Government (or anybody else) and you have restrictions on weaponry which are specifically prohibited by the second amendment.

Not saying it is necessarily wrong, or that I have an answer.  I am just not all that convinced that when an armored tank unit drives up your driveway because you failed to pay $200 for a gun, that your assault rifle is going to be much help. 

Which is pretty much the reason that a non-gun-owning peacenik like myself votes against people who propose bans on assault rifles.  A gun is only as dangerous as the nut behind the trigger.  Prevent nuts from having assault rifles, and they will kill people with rat poison or a Ford Taurus.

Sinerg


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Profile   Post #: 217
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 4/1/2007 9:08:17 PM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You are attempting to say I was a hypocrite, because of the Republican attempts to impeach Clinton Administration, involving the Lewinsky affair.


The only difference I see between Nixon and Bush between Watergate and Viet Nam Bush has not used National Guard to shoot student protestors like Nixon did at Ohio State.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 218
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 4/1/2007 9:12:01 PM   
SirDiscipliner69


Posts: 2607
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Who exactly was craving power to the point that they were willing to have an affair with Newt Gingrich?  


Power and the lust of power makes for a powerful aphrodisiac....

Many women have been lured to politicians like a moth to a flame....

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: What is George Gingrich had affair while hounding C... - 4/3/2007 12:51:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You are attempting to say I was a hypocrite, because of the Republican attempts to impeach Clinton Administration, involving the Lewinsky affair.


The only difference I see between Nixon and Bush between Watergate and Viet Nam Bush has not used National Guard to shoot student protestors like Nixon did at Ohio State.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."


And this has what to do with what I said?

Quite running around in your head, SirD.  Many of us don't suffer from the same dementia.  Or are you so blind to your own partisan viewpoint that you can't handle it when someone agrees with you about a point?

FirmKY


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 220
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