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RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 6:59:58 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:




Power demonstrated with grace and humility is much more beautiful than Power demonstrated in a boorish and egotistical fashion.



Nicely stated. 

I have found power to be perceived moreso when it's subtle.  Sometimes what is understated is actually more prominant and noticeable, than that which is demonstrated in a boisterous manner.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 3/25/2007 7:00:28 PM >


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(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:05:17 PM   
HisSongstress


Posts: 103
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

...which was simply that the manner that power is expressed is of importance and not just that it exists within the Submissive like the Dominant.

It is not enough for me to express that Submissive can be powerful...  It also needs to be expressed that Like Dominants there is a positive manner to express such power and a negative one..


I agree. When someone comes across as cocky and arrogant (Dominant or cubmissive) it is such a turn off. It also makes me question their self-awareness. Quiet, unassuming demonstrations of power are so impressive. If someone must proclaim it loudly...it makes me think of the frightened boy whistling in the dark.  (I am not implying that any of the posts in this thread are offered in a cocky way. I love to see confidence in people when it is warranted...and there are some wonderfully powerful submissives/slaves represented in this thread.)

...song...

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Before discovering bdsm, my motto was "Like me or bite me." But here, everyone seems to think that is an invitation.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:06:39 PM   
unsung


Posts: 183
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline
It is wonderful you feel good about yourself, good enough to boost , I commend you.  The most powerful women I know do not throw that knowledge around and in others faces.  They are very humble about it as a matter of fact.  Having to boost about being powerful I see as weakness in all honesty, like an effort to convince the rest of the world you have it and more.  Thank you for enlightening my thoughts on this so called 'power tripping'.  All the best to you in your travels.  Oh yeah and the women I know in power are very powerful, but its what they do for the people around them not the fact they turn heads because of the way they look when they walk in the room.  Sorry to rain on your parade but my perspective of power it seems is far different than what is reaking in this thread.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:13:28 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I so wish I had read things like this when I first started poking around the edges of my nature. When I first started exploring the "weak submissive" is all I found, and that scared the shit out of me. I thought that people would expect me to become some completely different person, and ended up living in denial for years.


Stereotypes abound and we all run into them when we start...especially if we're starting out on the net. Dominants are shown to be cruel and domineering and submissives are shown to be mindless worms. Sometimes,  people really want to live the lifestyle that way. That's valid. What's not valid is saying that everyone else does, and should, too.

There are plenty who want powerful subs and slaves....and many who want caring and polite Dominants.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:25:33 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Quiet, unassuming demonstrations of power are so impressive.


This is how I feel too.  I'd much rather a judge a person by his/her actions; than by their words.  When doms claim how "dominant" they are, my first thought is:  who is he trying to convince? Himself? 


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(in reply to HisSongstress)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:44:24 PM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
Greetings
 
I am who I am. I have no hidden agenda's to be all powerful, or all weak. I just am who I am; following the path that life has set before me.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 7:59:22 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

I'm all sub...but I do have a brain...(and I use it).


I've had a dom or two try to tell me that being intelligent could keep me from being a good submissive.  I came to the conclusion that they were right insofar as my intelligence told me that I could never be submissive at all to them. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: behindmirrors

quote:


Without pride in myself and abilities, I would have so much less to offer him.

That's exactly it, right there- everything I have thought on the matter. I'm proud, and I'm happy to see another that believes there are no apologies for being you and being aware of what you encompass.
Best to you and to FirmhandKY-
behindmirrors.


  Thank you so much.  It is good to see submissives willing to be the most they can be... so they have the most to give.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I so wish I had read things like this when I first started poking around the edges of my nature. When I first started exploring the "weak submissive" is all I found, and that scared the shit out of me. I thought that people would expect me to become some completely different person, and ended up living in denial for years.


I saw a lot of the same, and actually still do at times.  But there are many voices of reason here, and I'm happy to add mine.  I hope it helps someone else find their way. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankdolly

I don't see anything wrong in being a powerful woman in my own right and also being submissive. for me it is an important relinquishing of control after having been incharge all day both at work and with my daughter, so at the weekends when she has gone to her father and my Master and I are alone I can revel in that release which comes ( for me) only at the feel of rope on wrist and hand or paddle falling repededly upon exposed buttocks.

Just thought i'd add my tupence... for what it is worth



Thank you for sharing.  I do understand that feeling of release... for me it comes from simply knowing that FirmhandKY is there for me when I need him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

...the manner that power is expressed is of importance and not just that it exists within the Submissive like the Dominant.

...Like Dominants there is a positive manner to express such power and a negative one..


Absolutely.  In my profile, I describe a dominant as, "being powerful is a part of his personality that shows through in everything he says and does. Not by bullying or intimidation, but by his mere presence and conviction."  I feel that holds true just as much for a submissive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Badkitty0810

*high-5's losttreasure* AMEN sister!


Glad to be of service. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

To the OP...All I can say is that I am simply "me"..Sometimes that means I feel confident,sexy,all woman in one package..Sometimes that means I feel insecure,hesitant or nervous..and most of the time I am just your average run of the mill woman who simply does the best she can with what she has and accepts compliments with a smile and a blush, and insults with a grain of salt and tears running in her mind....Tempting


lol... We all have our varied moments.  Those times when I am struggling to deal with challenges doesn't take away from the essence of who I am... I am still every bit that sexy and confident woman; I'm just much more. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I have found power to be perceived moreso when it's subtle.  Sometimes what is understated is actually more prominant and noticeable, than that which is demonstrated in a boisterous manner.


My step-father taught me a long time ago that being "loud" isn't a requirement for being powerful.  Though a physically intimidating man, I was never particularly "frightened" of him... in fact, he never raised his hand against me... but he commanded my attention and I knew he meant business when he spoke very softly and deliberately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: unsung

It is wonderful you feel good about yourself, good enough to boost , I commend you.  The most powerful women I know do not throw that knowledge around and in others faces.  They are very humble about it as a matter of fact.  Having to boost about being powerful I see as weakness in all honesty, like an effort to convince the rest of the world you have it and more.  Thank you for enlightening my thoughts on this so called 'power tripping'.  All the best to you in your travels.  Oh yeah and the women I know in power are very powerful, but its what they do for the people around them not the fact they turn heads because of the way they look when they walk in the room.  Sorry to rain on your parade but my perspective of power it seems is far different than what is reaking in this thread.


You've not rained on my parade... I'm fully aware of my abilities and my perspective, and I don't feel threatened because you see things differently than intended.  I do find it interesting that you would think that I referred to physical appearance; I made no mention of the way I look.  I will note, however, that the men I've discuss this with have all said that a woman who is smart and confident is always more beautiful. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

... I'd much rather a judge a person by his/her actions; than by their words. 


I agree... actions always speak louder than words. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

I am who I am. I have no hidden agenda's to be all powerful, or all weak. I just am who I am; following the path that life has set before me.


I've never understood that saying... just how can you be anything other than who you are? 

I have no hidden agenda, but personally... I'd rather make my own path.   

How that works for me as a submissive is that FirmhandKY and I have the same destination in mind... he decides how we get there, and together we work to make it happen. 


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:04:28 PM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

I have no hidden agenda, but personally... I'd rather make my own path 

How that works for me as a submissive is that FirmhandKY and I have the same destination in mind... he decides how we get there, and together we work to make it happen. 

Greetings
 
LOL, Master helps to guide the path, shows it to me, and gives me two choices. Follow or not. I choose to follow  I can honestly say that when we first met, we were not on the same path. Master knew exactly which direction he was heading, and if we had not met on that day, I would have gone in a different direction completly. Thank God for plane delays
 
I wish you well
 
melissa
 
 

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:10:34 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

A powerful submissive?  Can this be?

Oh hell, yeah!   

I'm a smart, sexy, and powerful woman.  I have a brain and a body and I know how to use them.  I am sex personified, wrapped in a shell of class.  I can light up a room with my presence, causing men to lust after me and women to want to be me.  I can charm crowds with clever wit and stylish grace... and stun the observant with rare insight and profound wisdom.

Does this make me less submissive? 

Not in the least. 

My submission is more valuable because of it.  I am not a common domestic breed - I am the magnificent wild kind that bows only to the elite.  I am his showpiece... to be displayed at his whim, or cherished for his sole pleasure.

Being a source of pride for FirmhandKY elates me, yet I am humbled at his feet.

Without pride in myself and abilities, I would have so much less to offer him.

Do you meld this type of dichotomy into your dynamic?



My quick and dirty thoughts, only having read the first page of the thread is that I'm not personally comfortable declaring myself a powerful person.  Maybe its because I've found that its important to approach whatever gifts and accomplishments I have with humility rather than personal back patting shtuff.  I absolutely get that this thread is probably intended to be a feel good about myself type of thread, so I don't want to sound like I'm pissing in anyones Wheaties. 

Its more that I feel that its important to raise this other perspective that I don't believe that being a powerful person is about saying that you are powerful.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:21:43 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

Its more that I feel that its important to raise this other perspective that I don't believe that being a powerful person is about saying that you are powerful.



I agree with this thought...  and when I see the statement "I am who I am" ..  I reflect that this statement in of itself is an expression of power of the person.  I believe it is a demonstration of power just to be who one is... rather that project what one thinks they are.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:27:53 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I so wish I had read things like this when I first started poking around the edges of my nature. When I first started exploring the "weak submissive" is all I found, and that scared the shit out of me. I thought that people would expect me to become some completely different person, and ended up living in denial for years.


Stereotypes abound and we all run into them when we start...especially if we're starting out on the net. Dominants are shown to be cruel and domineering and submissives are shown to be mindless worms. Sometimes,  people really want to live the lifestyle that way. That's valid. What's not valid is saying that everyone else does, and should, too.

There are plenty who want powerful subs and slaves....and many who want caring and polite Dominants.

Master Fire



I'm glad to hear that. The last few weeks I've been involved with such a Domme, as an online relationship, but we're both looking for people to fill this spot in RT. We both live in areas with rather limited scenes, and looking online we've been a bit disappointed with the focus most have on the stereotypes. I was even beginning to think she might be really unusual. Maybe most of the Dominants who want powerful subs are simply in satisfying relationships already.

I still don't hold any illusions that this will be easy for me, but your words are encouraging

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:30:22 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

A powerful submissive?  Can this be?

Oh hell, yeah!   

I'm a smart, sexy, and powerful woman.  I have a brain and a body and I know how to use them.  I am sex personified, wrapped in a shell of class.  I can light up a room with my presence, causing men to lust after me and women to want to be me.  I can charm crowds with clever wit and stylish grace... and stun the observant with rare insight and profound wisdom.

Does this make me less submissive? 

Not in the least. 

My submission is more valuable because of it.  I am not a common domestic breed - I am the magnificent wild kind that bows only to the elite.  I am his showpiece... to be displayed at his whim, or cherished for his sole pleasure.

Being a source of pride for FirmhandKY elates me, yet I am humbled at his feet.

Without pride in myself and abilities, I would have so much less to offer him.

Do you meld this type of dichotomy into your dynamic?





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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 8:37:46 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I'm glad to hear that. The last few weeks I've been involved with such a Domme, as an online relationship, but we're both looking for people to fill this spot in RT. We both live in areas with rather limited scenes, and looking online we've been a bit disappointed with the focus most have on the stereotypes. I was even beginning to think she might be really unusual. Maybe most of the Dominants who want powerful subs are simply in satisfying relationships already.



That's surprising, because in my experience (being a weak-willed and self-hating submissive, naturally), it seems to be the rare Domme indeed who ISN'T looking for a sub who is confident and powerful and submissive to NO ONE BUT HER, because NOBODY likes a dishrag! Perhaps we should trade memory banks

...dave

(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 9:09:41 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
Haha I don't think you want my memory bank. Maybe I've just got really bad luck, but I seem to run across tons of Dommes who expect me to fall at their feet without even an introduction. Almost as bad are the ones that think I'm going to "pay tribute" to some stranger I've never met and never will (seems that the net is flooded with those types). I feel pretty damn lucky to have found someone who both understands me and doesn't try to make me fit into some cookie cutter image of submission. It could have worked out differently, and I'd have been running from myself again. Really has been an uplifting experience.

As an aside I did go to a munch run by a small group recently, and didn't meet any of those types there. So it probably is mainly an internet thing, where the medium takes the personal contact / accountability out of the picture. I imagine it's a lot easier to treat a screen name like dirt.

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 9:20:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
Just please don't ask me for directions anywhere- I have a geography IQ of about -25.  I literally have had to get directions that included "If it's in the afternoon, make the turn that's towards the sun."

Can't be strong in everything :)

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 10:39:08 PM   
directme4You


Posts: 1
Joined: 12/28/2006
Status: offline
Too bad more dominant women did not understand this concept!
I am so far from a doormat most can't handle it, but I guess they prefer the pushovers vs. a real man.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 10:42:04 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
Fast reply to no one in particular.

You remind me of the babe.
What babe?
The babe with the power.
What power?
The power of voodoo.
Who do?
You do.
Do what?
Remind me of the babe.



Upon reading this thread, that was ironically the first thing that sprang to mind (yes, my mind works in weird ways sometimes ).  As I pondered both what I'd read in this thread and what some part of my subconscious was apparently trying to tell me with the above bit, I eventually came to ask a question.

What power?

I see threads like this every now and then.  Sometimes posted by submissives, sometimes by dominants, sometimes its on a non lifestyle site posted by someone wrestling with that same basic question (I am woman, hear me roar.... I am a modern man, hear me roar... I am a (insert nationality, creed, religion, political group, etc.), hear me roar).  Regardless of who it is, as I think about it, the one question I find myself asking of them all is simply...

What power?

When someone says they are powerful, or that they have power, or that they are exchanging power... what is really meant?  What power?  Is it just some warm fuzzy feel-good proclamation intended to make someone or specific groups of people feel good about who they are?  Is it based on something tangible, on merit of some kind perhaps?  Is it something people say simply because it sounds good?  Were they awarded a certificate for it?  How many who discuss it can also define it?  If you believe you are powerful... what does that mean in practical, definable, specific terms?  What power?  And of what real value (if any) is that power? 

How can anyone say they or anyone else is powerful if we don't first know what sort of power we mean?  We might say someone who is wealthy is powerful, because of what they can do using that wealth.  We might say someone who is very charismatic has a kind of personal power.  We often view leaders as being "powerful" while those who follow are "weak" or at least not as powerful.  Most often we seem to measure how "powerful" a person is by how much they can influence, affect, and/or control other people as well as how many people they can affect.  Thus both a tyrrant and conscionable leader can be seen as powerful (being powerful does equate with being moral or "good").  Someone like John Warren might be viewed as a more "powerful" dominant that say, me, because he's written books, attended events, given lectures, etc. and thus affect far more people in this lifestyle than me.  Some view having a higher post count than someone else as making them more "powerful".  We prize power, we covet it, we admire it... we associate having it as being good. But is it?  Is the way we measure our "power" valid and based in tangible facts... or just a pleasant self delusion to prop up our self esteem?  And even if some people are powerful, what does that mean?  Someone might be powerful because they are wealthy, and some will not care... some will even resent them for it.

Are submissives powerful?  First define what power.
Are submissives weak?  If they are, why do we so often seem to despise it.  In nature there are always some who are stronger than others, some who are weaker than others.  Being weaker is, of itself, not "bad" just as being powerful does not mean someone is "good".  Yet we so often mindlessly despise the weak and admire the "powerful".  A pride of lions is composed of both stronger and weaker members, yet its survival is dependant on their ability to work together... a lion who is forced out and alone often does not survive for long no matter how "powerful" they might individually be.

Is being "powerful" or stronger really all that great?  After all, as Darwin put it,"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, but those most responsive to change."  As bullheaded as some of us dominants can be, I can't help but wonder if the submissives who are sometimes called "weaker" but are also often more adaptive aren't the ones most likely to survive.

Personally, I don't give a damn how powerful any of you thinks you are... neither do I care if you are weak.  I care more who you are as a person, and whether you are powerful or not, I care more what you do with whatever skills, abilities, talents, or "power" you possess.  Don't tell me about how powerful you are or think you are... if you wish to impress me, tell me instead what worthy things you have done with it.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 10:59:31 PM   
MsRose


Posts: 98
Joined: 5/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: directme4You

Too bad more dominant women did not understand this concept!
I am so far from a doormat most can't handle it, but I guess they prefer the pushovers vs. a real man.


Excuse me, but I understand perfectly well the concept of personal pride and having confidence in oneself. I find these qualities (and all of the attributes losttreasure describes) attractive in a submissive man, dare I say, exceptional. These are the qualities I possess and look for in my men. Moreover, if he doesn't have pride (with a touch of grace) and confidence (with a dash of humility) then I would find him incompatible. He doesn't have to "shine" like a million brilliant stars in the galaxy and blind me with his radiant being. But he can at least have some swagger. I just don't know if the pool of such men is as deep as I'd like it to be. But a domme can dream. Can't she?


_____________________________

"man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains" ~ Rousseau.

(in reply to directme4You)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 11:08:09 PM   
MsParados


Posts: 183
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
Padriag, you have a powerful way with words. ;) I have never fully understood or accepted the popular bar that "powerful" seems to be set at. I can understand and love to see self confidence and joy about (or in) ones life but if it means that I am concerned with people wanting to be with me or be like me, than I never want to be thought of as powerful. I find more beauty and character in the subtle expressions of doing or being and when ever I encounter the solo horn tooters and back patters it reminds me of my grandmothers words, that self praise is no praise at all.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Powerful Submissive... - 3/25/2007 11:12:45 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
I find that power, much like intelligence is most often found in those who have no need to flaunt it, and the more one declares "I AM!!" the less often they are.

juliet

(in reply to MsRose)
Profile   Post #: 60
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