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RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/26/2007 7:49:05 PM   
bearincuffs


Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Troll,

I have to say that I am impressed by the quality and subsatnce to this thread. I would like to add my two cents worth if I may. I do admit I am ignorant on the teachings and the ways of Gorean community and all which it entails. On occassion, I have read through various topics in the Gorean Board and have begun to gan a little better understanding in this area. I believe, the more I learn, the less I will be close minded. Personally, I have no issues regarding who posts where and whether they should or shouldn't post. We all have some knowledge to share with anyone who wants to learn, irregardless on their lifestyle and how they classify themselves.

I will not post my opinion in the Gorean board for one reason only, because I do not know enough of the Gorean lifestyle to offer any reasonable and valid opinion. This is the same approach I ytry to use with other boards and will only respond to ones which I honestly know it may make a difference and also have a good idea on what I'd say. It makes no diference to myself when a Gorean Master posts in Ask a sub/slave or elsewhere and the same applies to a Mistress posting an opinion in Ask a Master.

"Can we regard a Gorean post off the Gorean boards as another practitioner giving their 2 cents? "

I have to answer yes to this. Their thoughts and opinions are as valid as my thoughts and opinions are. All of us are still part of this community. no matter if we are Master/Mistress, sub/slave, Gorean/Non Gorean etc.

Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?

Yes. Only through acceptance and understanding can this community become stronger then what it is now.

_____________________________

property of Master Dave of the House of Gemini

An it harm none, do as thou wilt
Do what you will, so long as it harms none
An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/26/2007 8:06:54 PM   
MasterRobssara


Posts: 177
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings everyone, Tal Master Troll,

I found Gor at an early age (hell I am still an early age) but I knew immediately it was for me. But before that I had practiced a BDSM lifestyle. Not either is better than the other, Gor just made since to my slave heart and gave me a better explanation for what and who I am. Go read the gorean forums; there are plenty of non goreans posting in there that sit along side us quite nicely. They are there to observe, learn, and have fun with friends. Just like everyone else! But to go into the Gor boards and start ranting on how and why we are wrong isn’t the best approach to making peace. Over a period of time people got the notion that goreans are roleplaying nerds that speak another language. And I for one have never role played being a kajira, and I don’t plan on it.

As for third person speech, that actually comes from old guard. Some men require It of their slaves to speak in the third, some do not. It is not specifically a goreanism though.

So all in all, I am a slave to gorean men, and yet I eat, sleep, and take a poo exactly the same as the BDSM folk.

sara, simply a slave.

< Message edited by MasterRobssara -- 3/26/2007 8:10:00 PM >

_____________________________

sara, slave to Master Rob.

"Men force that sexual side out of a girl; you can’t help but add a little sway of the hips, a toss of your hair, or extra puck in your lips when a true man is around." - Me!

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/26/2007 11:05:31 PM   
wyldsubmissive


Posts: 157
Joined: 5/7/2005
Status: offline 		Hey FT and all ya'll who wrote in,

I can honestly say that while I don't do Gor personally I respect them. They have a code of honor that they wear on their sleeves and display in their posts. I admire the slave fire kajiras have. Keep in mind that this doesn't mean a non-Gorean sub or slave is any less subservient or joyful for it. Merely that a kajira owns it like no other. *shrugs* My personal opinion.

I think (again my opinion) that Goreans feel the need to defend themselves and on ocassion attack others because they're a select few. To be truly Gor is to take a fantasy world and apply it to your own life. I mean it isn't as bad as otherkin or otakukin, but some would call it a far cry from "normal". However, I suppose BDSMers old and young can be picked on for following a madmans writings (the Marquis) and an Austrians (Leopold van Sach-Masoc).

In short: GO GOR! Just uh... Not on me.

My thoughts,

Wyld

_____________________________

"A man's ability to have an erection has very little to do with my desire to submit to him.... If that were the case, I would have submitted to my vibrator years ago."

-credited to champangewishes

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 5:43:45 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?

I doubt it. It's funny you mention IronBear, yet neglect to mention that he felt he got run off by twue goreans because he had some moderate ideas. If IB can't even build bridges with the group he identifies with, how can anyone else?

Also neglected in what was otherwise a pretty good argument was the fact that the gorean forum wasn't always there, so back then we all had to rub elbows like it or not. To me, that forced coexistence seemed like an effective way to swap ideas and build bridges though occasionally folks did butt heads. Now the goreans have their own little world where they can perpetuate their fantasies about themselves such as the one where they claim they've got a monopoly on honor, virtue and purity of lifestyle. They chose to isolate themselves from the reality of the rest of us, so fuck 'em.

So I think building bridges is the wrong metaphor -- the goreans want to live on another planet, so about all we can manage is to exchange the occasional interstellar messenger, and if he makes the wrong move the natives blast him. C'est la vie!




< Message edited by happypervert -- 3/27/2007 5:51:44 AM >

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RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 5:50:47 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bellanotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Unfortunately it seems that a great many of the goreans, male and female alike, have a nasty tendency to come to the nongor threads in order to preach their one true way.




I don't know if that's any more common than "Our" factions preaching "the one true way" at each other *winks*.... the various factions of non-Gor just don't have separate boards... (i.e., TPE, Old Guard, New Guard, Mickey Mouse, whathaveyou).....

There is a tendency on the part of  -any-one to think their way is the best way... and simply by the act of putting down the "preaching" of someone else, you are "preaching" yourself "superior" to them in a way *winks* (not saying it is intentional, but it IS a side effect if you think about it!)


p.s. FT - I thought those two threads (plus the explanation) was a stroke of brilliance *chuckles*... hopefully it will open some eyes



You may be correct in that norGors also post their one true way but I don't see it. Probably because I don't go to the Gor threads to post my one true way. But I do see them come here.

I also get annoyed at the insistence of many people that they have more right to speak because they are owned slaves and I am 'only' a sub who obviously hasn't yet achieved her true slave potential. And yes, I've had people say that to me.

Is it a put down to say I don't like being preached at? Possibly, but it's an honest one as is my dislike of nonstandard writing. I don't pretend that I think everyone is wonderful because I don't.


(in reply to bellanotte)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 6:07:26 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The Goreans have their own, highly-moderated forum.  There must be a compelling reason that has happened. I don't feel any need to go over there and build a bridge.  It seems a wall was put up for a specific reason.


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 6:34:20 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

If those calling themselves Gorean, BDSM, Gay, Lesbian, Switch, Dominant, Sub, Slave, Master, Mistress, are enjoying life as they are living it..It doesn't and can't get any better than that.

I see no higher or lower standards in moralilty, ethics, codes of anything from any individuals on this board or other boards based on what label they identify with. I see it only in the individuals themselves and that is only measureable by what standards I have been ingrained with.

I see no more seriousness or dedication to what is preached or practice from any sect as a whole but only individuals within. I see no co-hesiveness from any sect anymore than the others.

I see just as many who speak much more of the fantasy aspects of things versus whats practical in real life from any side of the fence, on top of it or under it.

The rituals and protocols have crossed plateau's and belong to no one sect anymore. The philosophys held have Never belonged to any sect but mere individuals, and their willingness or desire to apply them to their lives.

A good deal of difference I do see and it's about the only one that seems to hold water is that Goreans don't get into the freaky deviant aspects that BDSM has taken under it wings. I also don't see the BDSM community at large really anymore tolerant from a individual level of some of those freaky deviant aspects. Can't count the number of BDSM'ers that state their opinion (or one true way or Nots) about scat, piss play or being fucked by a dog or whored out. The BDSM side just says um okay whatever and lets it be there. The Gorean side says um no way in hell period. Works for me.

If your happy and you know it clap your hands.

clap
clap

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin


< Message edited by starshineowned -- 3/27/2007 6:36:23 AM >

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 6:46:10 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Troll,
I actually spent half of 2005 in the Gorean Forum to try and understand things from a Gorean point of view on the world.
I like to find commonalities in various groups in society and look for the kinship and common beliefs vs looking for the distinctive differences.
In that I learn so much about the facets of me I'd have never accepted and I grow.
I think if you go to the Gorean threads as a respectful human being they indeed respect your presence and input.
I also feel the Gorean people that post in the remaining forums are treated as evenly as any one else for their opinions.
I do see BDSM or Gorean bashing happening, but the same things the Goreans discuss is bent about the BDSM'rs the BDSM people agree the people with these traits in their midst give the BDSM'rs a bad name. The same holds true for the GOrean side. The things most BDSM people say are horrid practices in Gor the Gorean people think are horrid too.

I agree I wish there was a way to open people's eyes to the notion each human being is an individual person no matter what group they affiliate themselves with.
Over all I think the notion Goreans can't post in the other areas & we don't find acceptance in theirs is again more about your personal approach if you're (not you personally, but those who take heat) rejected and not the title you identify with.
suzanne

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 7:01:15 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings happypervert,

Maybe you should let Ironbear speak for himself, it will likely be closer to the truth.

I have no monopoly on honor and such, but is your message an example of your idea of such?

Keep your ignorance and generalizations. You are a prime example of why I just get tired of dealing with people like you. You do not get it, and likely never will. If your post is an example of "honor, virtue and purity of lifestyle" then we really do not have anything in common.

Some people want to build a bridge, while others do everything they can to tear it down.


Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?

I doubt it. It's funny you mention IronBear, yet neglect to mention that he felt he got run off by twue goreans because he had some moderate ideas. If IB can't even build bridges with the group he identifies with, how can anyone else?

Also neglected in what was otherwise a pretty good argument was the fact that the gorean forum wasn't always there, so back then we all had to rub elbows like it or not. To me, that forced coexistence seemed like an effective way to swap ideas and build bridges though occasionally folks did butt heads. Now the goreans have their own little world where they can perpetuate their fantasies about themselves such as the one where they claim they've got a monopoly on honor, virtue and purity of lifestyle. They chose to isolate themselves from the reality of the rest of us, so fuck 'em.

So I think building bridges is the wrong metaphor -- the goreans want to live on another planet, so about all we can manage is to exchange the occasional interstellar messenger, and if he makes the wrong move the natives blast him. C'est la vie!





_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 7:49:32 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Darn..can't edit anymore.

Probably need to have that part about dog removed as probably isn't in accordance to TOS. I'm sorry..didn't catch that beforehand.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 7:59:45 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply.

I am going to start typing thoughts and maybe I will hit OK, then again, after reading thru them I may just end up closing the window......I do that alot more than anyone might imagine.

When I first came to collarme it was the first real exposure I had to the gorean stuff. At FIRST I thought it was kinda cool, codes of honour, personal integrity, etc etc etc. Basically alot of the personal behaviour philosophies that I strive to live my life with. Then human nature being what human nature is, and the new concept of internet fantasy land being what it is.....I was VERY quickly disallusioned. In fact I would call disallusioned a gross understatement.

I will try and refrain from the petty details that have been beat like a horse dead and focus on the important stuff.

One true/better way.....which is so closed minded and arrogant. How this attitude is communicated by those that call themselves gorean to those that cannot identify personally with their beliefs. It is a direct hypocrisy to some of the standards of behaviour that initially peaked my interest in the first place.

Primarily, intollerance of anyone that dares to disagree with their belief system and say so. While this is certainly NOT a gorean exlusive.....see any political or religious debate in the offtopic zone.....it is a guarantee. Sure to be met with hostility, and much passive agressive condensating banter. Usually enmass.
 
I have lived too full a life in my almost45 years to even begin to believe in a, across the board, gender supremacy. There are too many men, and women, that prove to me daily, even hourly, that they are supreme in nothing, let alone simply based on their gender. A person could argue that fact with me until they fall over dead and I will still calmly be able to point to too many visible real life (not written in a fictional book) examples that prove otherwise.

I also miss IB, he was probably the only gorean identified man to grace the collarme forums that I always enjoyed reading and developed great respect for. He displayed many of the personal values and behaviours that I strive for, that I respect in anyone, male or female. He stood out because he almost always held fast to that personal honour and integrity that is easy to espouse but much more difficult to live. He did, at least on here, to my eyes. If all that call themselves gorean were as disciplined and honourable in behaviour as IronBear appeared to be I think there would be no need for bridges or walls.

This can also be said of those that are so vehemently against the gorean philosophy. People on either side of the issue are any less to blame. Unfortunately one side does feed the other all too well.

It is unfortunate that within a small facet of life such as this website there is a reflection of what drives so many of the worlds biggest problems which have always, and probably will always, lead to war. Arrogance, intollerance and fear.

I guess my point is this. IF someone wishes to be respected, as one that lives their life in an honourable manner. To inspire others, to have their perspectives treated with respect and validated.......they need to give it value. To show that the words are more than words. All of the snide remarks, chest puffing and thumping, and sometimes out and out attacks.....wether provoked or not, only serves to undermine what they are saying they believe in. This only serves to make it a farce, a comedy of sorts. I believe our behaviour over time is what shows the truth of our nature, not the books we read or what we voice/type.

Personally, you can claim to be anything you want. I don't care. How you back it up with action will determine wether or not I take you seriously. I don't have to agree with you to respect you. I don't have to chose to live my life the way you do to believe your choice has value. BUT, I do have to see that you really believe in it, that you own all of it, not just the easy stuff. And I deserve the exact same respect, my choices deserve to be given the same value EVEN when they are in direct opposition with your choices.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 8:08:40 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I began to study gor quite a while back, i only read the first four books but do intend to read the rest at some point. I posted in the gorean board a few times and was always made welcome. I had a couple of friends who were very helpful when i didnt understand the books or was confused with terminology etc.
I think because of my experiences on the gorean boards i really dont understand this thread. After all most people have things they dont understand or dont tolerate. Gor may well be one of them but what about those out there who won't tolerate poly or switches etc?
Its a noble idea to make an attempt to gain understanding for everyone of Gor but in reality there are always going to be those people who dont or dont want to understand or tolerate or whatever.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 8:43:59 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings LaTigresse,

I agree with much of what you said. Within any group or sect of people, you will find many that believe differently. Many of the Goreans I associate with are not just online Rpers, and live a life similar to anyone elses. They respect that people can be as they wish, and knowing what you truly are and following it, is a basic tenant of the Gorean philosophy. I may disagree with someone's personal choices, I may not wish to associate with someone because of their own code/morals/ethics, etc. This does not mean that I do not recognize their right to be as they wish, just that I may disagree with some of what they do or say. Many Goreans that I speak with have similar beliefs. What I find is that a few, that are very loud and offensive, are often remembered more than those that are not as loud or attracting as much attention with offensive behavior.

My background before identifying with the Philosophies of Gor (not just the lifestyle and customs of am fictional series), was on the BDSM side. 13 years of BDSM, primarily focusing on the M/s relationship and light S&M. I have many friends within the local BDSM community here, and we have discussion all the time about the various elements of M/s and TPE/APE (or whatever the correct terms is this day), and I find things in what they say that I learn from. Learning about one's self and the world around you comes from many different sources, that is what I believe another of the tenants of Gorean philosophy is. Where many people have a problem is that a value is put on these things around us, by ourselves, and this is looked as judgement. Many do not bother to look at the definition of judgement, and do not realize that we all judge in some fashion or another. If I determine someone has less value than someone else, that is my personal choice, just as everyone makes decisions that they would rather be in one person's company over another, a value judgement has been made.

Things are not equal in the world, many would like to think they are but they are not. Many would like to make things fair, but life shows again and again that fairness is subjective and nature will determine for itself what will be done. Many Goreans try and hold themselves to a higher standard, and sometimes try and enforce that on others around them. I tend to have greater expectations for people, I think everyone should as most people will subconsciously strive to meet expectations. In the end there are many paths to follow, knowing what your path is, knowing that in the end you walk this path by yourself, and that you must accept the responsibility and consequences, good or bad, while walking your path, to me this is what Gorean philosophy is. it is much more complicated than that, but there are so many writings on it I cannot include them all.

I wish you well,
Orion

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:21:10 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I have no monopoly on honor and such, but is your message an example of your idea of such?

Keep your ignorance and generalizations. You are a prime example of why I just get tired of dealing with people like you. You do not get it, and likely never will. If your post is an example of "honor, virtue and purity of lifestyle" then we really do not have anything in common.

Gee, Orion, from this post and your previous one where you just whined about the difficulty in talking to "us", it looks to me like we're exactly alike; however,  you seem to believe your swipes at the other side are somehow more honorable than mine. My so called ignorance is just the other side of the coin to your arrogance, and that proves my point -- you are no more suited to build bridges or be the interstellar messenger than I am, and that is why your decision not to bother trying any more is the right one.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:36:38 AM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		Happy, have you read this thread?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:38:00 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings happypervert,

I am just me. You are just you. I don't like the expressions in your post and you seem to not like mine. That we can agree on. Both the same? Highly doubtful. Whine? That is your interpretation of it, just to launch a person insult, and it is duly noted. All I said is that ignorant, which you show by your generalizations, that you generalize, and that you are a good example of what I find tiring, in the human race as a whole actually. Your continued "example" shows what I am talking about and I allow the reader to interpret that example as they see fit. Arrogant? At times yes, a strong sense of pride and passion will sometimes lead to that. What swipes do you refer to? Me calling you on your behavior? If that is a swipe, so be it. Now if two such as us could find common ground, what would that say to the proposed experiment? The ball is back in your court.

Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:41:28 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		What happened to Ironbear?? sobs

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:41:56 AM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Now if two such as us could find common ground, what would that say to the proposed experiment?

Orion


Excelent point Orion and exactly what I am aiming for.

_____________________________

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TrollTopia
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The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 11:42:00 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		<quietly singing>
"Kumbyah, My Troll.... Kum-by-ah
Kumbyah, My Troll.... Kum-by-ah
Kumbyah, My Troll.... Kum-by-ah
 
(everybody now-join hands and sway to the music)
 
Oh Troll-ooool...
 Kum-by-aaaaaaaaaah!"
 
:)
 
 
 
 
 


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I'm not your type.
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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: “Bridging respect” - 3/27/2007 12:05:12 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Afternoon all,

For me one of the biggest hypocracies I have noticed in my 17ish years in and around various groups, is that old 'everybody should respect my kink, but I reserve judgement on all of yours'.  It probably has something to do with human nature, who knows.  It is a funny thing that we are involved in under the big umbrella of alphabet soup.  While my Gorean beliefs have nothing to do with my BDSM play, they often overlap.  I am by no means a sadist (at least by the truist meaning of the word), I do not get sexual pleasure from causing pain, I do have very sadistic ideas on somethings (mainly punishment of criminals and such).  My personal sexual kinks are very in line with the do no permanant harm way of thinking.  As I have said many times in the past, I could care less what somebody is doing in the privacy of their own home, as long as it doesn't involve playing with a loaded rifle pointed at me.  The words and actions of an individual will speak for themselves, regardless of what label they wear.  Personal responsibility is something that I take very seriously, I easily tire of the the victimization mentality of giving excuses for personal behaviours.

I wish you all well,
Thadius

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Profile   Post #: 40
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