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RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:26:44 AM

Slavetrainer2007

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavetrainer2007
But to Master a slave is significantly lesser challange. ... To master a slave is not to own one.. but to control and have extensive knowledge over one.

And there you have the basic duality (?) of the definition of 'master' (basically i) 'owner' and ii) one who has specific skills) ... you prefer to look to one definition, others to another. There are no right or wrongs here... just people using different definitions.

I agree.

In theory, in BDSM, you could actually satsify both definations at that same time. You could actually 1) own a slave and 2) have mastered the skill of owning slaves.

So whats the def. of Mistress? Anyone care to look that up?

_____________________________

Life is given, Everything else is earned.

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Post #: 41

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:27:10 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Everyone starts off in the fictional world of BDSM when they start, at what point does the master/mistress step out of the fiction that got them started and become a Master/Mistress in real life?

Shylah

Where did this idea come from? Fiction played no part of who i am as a sub, nor i suspect did it for many other doms or subs out there.
The first two definitions in the dictionary are interesting, one supports what people here have been saying and one sort of negates it:

Dictionary Definitions
1.
a person with the ability or power to use, control, or dispose of something: a master of six languages; to be master of one's fate.
2.
an owner of a slave, animal, etc.

So the question would be just because you own a slave, if you cannot "use and control" them are you really a Master? What if you owned a slave and she died - are you no longer a Master, even if said slave was owned for 20 years? i am a mother and if my children were to die i would go to my grave feeling and identifying as a mother. If i never had any children that's another story.

i think to be a Master you have to have skills and abilities and the respect of those around you. i think many who like to be called "Master" enjoy it because it gives them a sense of power. Someone truly confident doesn't need this kind of affirmation from others.

Are you saying before you entered the lifestlye you didn't read books or fanticise about what you saw in movies and porn?

You never "played" online?

In my opinion those are all forms of fiction.

But that's off topic ;)

Shylah

_____________________________

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 42

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:31:00 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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quote:

Are you saying before you entered the lifestlye you didn't read books or fanticise about what you saw in movies and porn?

You never "played" online?

In my opinion those are all forms of fiction.

Depends what you count as 'fiction'. First you have to define what you mean by that word before people can answer. But no - not everyone played online. Or just sat and watched porn. Or whatever you define as fiction.

But if you define 'fiction' as masturbation fantasy - then I suppose you could say (almost)everyone starts their sexual life off in fantasy....

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Post #: 43

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:32:20 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
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I would define this the same as what makes a good leader,
but with the D/s aspect added to it.

1. Good communication skills
2. Intelligent, willing and able to learn
3. Self knowledge
4. Self control
5. Able and willing to adapt and grow and change
6. Knowing your own limits
7. Able to admit and learn from mistakes
8. Humility rather than arrogance
9. Able and willing to delegate
10. Respecting and abiding by the limits of others
11. Knowledge and ability to train another person(s)
12. Need/desire to dominate and control another person(s)

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 44

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:49:12 AM

velvetears

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i would be who i am no matter if i ever read a bdsm book or watch a porn movie (which i don't like btw). i don't play online either.

i think all those things can enhance fantasies or experiences but to claim what you said would be like saying to gay people - Are you saying before you were gay you didn't read about it in books or watch porn movies. You never role played being gay online?

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 45

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 11:59:51 AM

diz

Posts: 1076
Joined: 9/6/2006
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i am just a person who is submissive in nature.... are Masters not Dominant in nature, know their own minds and have self control as well as the ability to learn all the time.. just as everyone else does in this world... when i fell into bdsm i never even really knew there was a whole world wide community out there. i was 18 in a commited relationship and i was with an older guy who was strong minded blah blah blah BUT He also had the strength to support me and teach me just as i was teaching Him along the way. ok... i guess i am blabbing here BUT what makes a Master? what makes anyone who they are?? its not porn and its not books and its certainly not fiction, well for me it wasn't... i did not even know it exisited until my limits within a relationship evolved. Is it the fantasy with a long black coat? Dom boots? the feel of leather between your fingers? some may say yes, others may disagree.... there is never one answer and i think this is a thread that is repeated and could go on forever, BUT I do have to say..... it takes someone who is ever growing, ever learning, not afraid of challenges and always prepared to teach and to be taught with grace..

did i make any sense or does it read as badly as i have read it ....lol

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 46

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 12:04:53 PM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be who i am no matter if i ever read a bdsm book or watch a porn movie (which i don't like btw). i don't play online either.

i think all those things can enhance fantasies or experiences but to claim what you said would be like saying to gay people - Are you saying before you were gay you didn't read about it in books or watch porn movies. You never role played being gay online?

I feel that that inalegy is taking what I said out of context.

All that was ment was that most people start of with some kind of non real life experince that involves another person. I personaly, read BDSM book sinse I was 13 years old.

People may have desiers and fanticies with out books movies/porn or online "play", but in my experince most people start off with one or more of those thing untill they meet a partner that they can explore with.

Now, I would find it quite odd if you said that you didn't do that when you first started out.

As far as compering what I said to how gay people find thire sexuality, I feel that isn't even in the same ball park as what I was talking about. I was explaining what I ment when I said "fiction". It had nothing to do with finding anyones sexuality or sexual prefrence.

Shylah

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Post #: 47

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 12:17:32 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Shylah you should also recognize your age is affecting your experience- the culture in which you blossomed gave you a lot more access and was a lot more open and welcoming to "all this" than most of the people on this board had.

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(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 48

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 12:32:30 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
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From: UK
Status: offline

Hi Shylah

Thing is...to some people BDSM is a sexual preference.

And when I first became attracted to BDSM, there were no chat rooms, or computers as there are now.

And I am not even that old!

And purchasing any sexual book was almost impossible lol...

Everyone starts with a fantasy in their heads. It doesn't have to be BDSM - it is just there.

My first bondage experience wasn't even sexual.

To make a statement like - Now, I would find it quite odd if you said that you didn't do that when you first started out - is naive(I don't mean that to be insulting) Sometimes it is better to ask something like ''Is porn or online a first stop for some people on their BDSM path''. I would then give the standard answer and say - If a questions starts is 'Is ...' then the answer is yes - for some people.

Not everyone is exactly the same. That is what makes life, and BDSM, so fab.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 49

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 1:35:25 PM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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Ummm.. no, not everyone started this way. I was just taken, bound up, and taken. There was no online, yes books were available, I clearly recall reading the story of O when I was 10. But I also Moby Dick and have no fantasies about becoming a whaler. I was more attracted to the crime stories which lined my shelves. And even that had nothing to do with why I was taken and adapted to this the way I was. To this date I STILL have not played online.
Trust me, not everyone out there found out about this through the internet, movies, or books. For some people doing this, it was just life. There are no absolutes in the way people come into this.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

Are you saying before you entered the lifestlye you didn't read books or fanticise about what you saw in movies and porn?

You never "played" online?

In my opinion those are all forms of fiction.

But that's off topic ;)

Shylah

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 3/30/2007 1:39:19 PM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 50

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 1:50:01 PM

Slavetrainer2007

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be who i am no matter if i ever read a bdsm book or watch a porn movie (which i don't like btw). i don't play online either.

i think all those things can enhance fantasies or experiences but to claim what you said would be like saying to gay people - Are you saying before you were gay you didn't read about it in books or watch porn movies. You never role played being gay online?

I feel that that inalegy is taking what I said out of context.

All that was ment was that most people start of with some kind of non real life experince that involves another person. I personaly, read BDSM book sinse I was 13 years old.

People may have desiers and fanticies with out books movies/porn or online "play", but in my experince most people start off with one or more of those thing untill they meet a partner that they can explore with.

Now, I would find it quite odd if you said that you didn't do that when you first started out.

As far as compering what I said to how gay people find thire sexuality, I feel that isn't even in the same ball park as what I was talking about. I was explaining what I ment when I said "fiction". It had nothing to do with finding anyones sexuality or sexual prefrence.

Shylah

Things get taken out of context alot on here.

I think what Shylah is meaning is this lifestyle starts somewhere for people. You may be born with a sub or dom nature but to realize it and accept it happens somewhere else along the way. Ive been dom as far back as i can remember. I was described not as a dom but as honory(sp?) troublesome, non behaving, Etc but as i came to the point of having girlfriends, i noticed i was either the one in control or i lost interest quickly. At the time i thought i was just spoiled and had to have my way all the time. I hated the idea of giving up control to anyone, even someone i trusted with my life. I also had teenage fantasies and thoughts( especially when a girlfriend would give me a headache) about owning a girl instead of being 50/50 with one. I thought thats the only way im going to be able to have a relationship is if im in control.

I discovered the world wide web and i couldnt believe it! There were people like me who called themselves Doms and their were women like i felt i needed to be in relationship with. I no longer felt like a bad or evil person for wanting to "own" a woman. All sorts of fantasies arose. And the more i looked into it the more i found people actually did stuff i only dreamed of.

What appealed to me the most is ( or was) that i could like this and this and this and this other person who liked none of those things didnt think i was weird strange a nutcase or anything else like the vanilla world did. i could be me and pretty much do what interest me and it was acceptable. So i felt like i fit in this community better than i fit in my own family and hence ive never looked back.

The point of this little story is i wasnt born into this and most arent( and if they are i have to question their parents) The dom i was born as, but i learned about BDSM through fiction( yes i read the gorean books all 26 or so of them ) fantasies i had about my idea of a perfect relationship, and i learned alot online about the different interest in BDSM and such.

I still learn from online. From other peoples experiences and interest. And had it not been for Online(i live in a remote area) i would probably still be wondering why i am like i am and probably be considering mental help :O

_____________________________

Life is given, Everything else is earned.

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 51

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 1:55:31 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

I signed up for an On-line course that I found being touted by Sally Struthers....I have a diploma which none of you other so called "masters" can probably produce....I am the one and only true MASTER!!!

_____________________________

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Post #: 52

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:04:12 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I become a mistress when I have an actual slave that I own.

Otherwise I may be a dominant and a sadist, but I am really just and I wouldn't claim a role title like mistress or master.

That's all?

You just have to own someone to have acheved that title of Mistress?

(honest question, not trying to be rude)

Shylah

What does the title mean in BDSM?

For me it means that one is in the role of a master or mistres. If you don't have someone, you have no business with that title.

You'll note that I don't give myself a title with anyone else -- it really is about the relationship for me.

As for "that's all" -- getting to that place where you own someone consensual is a long process in my world. It takes a lot of time and energy and much self-work and pair-work.

In other parts of life you may get the title of master/mistress for other reasons. I got a masters in history for doing two years of graduate level course work and writign on original study at an acredited university.

Someone might become a master carpenter after years of work and going certain professional steps.

It really doesn't work that way in BDSM except on the small scale of individual organizations and clubs.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 3/30/2007 2:19:46 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 53

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:11:52 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kris2012

O.K. I've seen a few people so far who have said, "owning a slave" in responce to the question. So, I have another question. Is that really all it takes to be a Master/Mistress? As you can see from my posts, I am completely new to this community. I've read through a few sites and I'm in the middle of my first real book. From what I've read and what I know of myself I would consider myself a Dom. So at this point... all I have to do is go out and get a sub and I'm a Mistress? ;:? Somehow... That doesn't sound right. Or am I misunderstanding you guys?

I would say that what more there is to it, is a matter of how you use the term "Mistress". I see it as a word that represents a role therefore I have to be in some relationship where I have that role in order to use that word.

If you want it to mean something more than you can figure out what you have to do to claim it.

For me a difference is clearer betweew the words dominant and owner -- I think someone can be a master or mistress in either of those but I personal see the world differently when I think of myself as a dominant or an owner. How I view would be quite complicated to explain.... if you have a few hours and can come over for hot chocolate I'd be more able to explain it than in mere words on a screen.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 3/30/2007 2:15:25 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Kris2012)

Post #: 54

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:18:30 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

What really makes a Master/Mistress?

I know that there are alot of people out there who just slap master or mistress on their name and start collecting subs/slaves.

Everyone starts off in the fictional world of BDSM when they start, at what point does the master/mistress step out of the fiction that got them started and become a Master/Mistress in real life?

Shylah

Later you wrote:

Are you saying before you entered the lifestlye you didn't read books or fanticise about what you saw in movies and porn?

You never "played" online?

In my opinion those are all forms of fiction.

But that's off topic ;)

Shylah

i responded:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be who i am no matter if i ever read a bdsm book or watch a porn movie (which i don't like btw). i don't play online either.

i think all those things can enhance fantasies or experiences but to claim what you said would be like saying to gay people - Are you saying before you were gay you didn't read about it in books or watch porn movies. You never role played being gay online?

To which you replied:

I feel that that inalegy is taking what I said out of context.

All that was ment was that most people start of with some kind of non real life experince that involves another person. I personaly, read BDSM book sinse I was 13 years old.

People may have desiers and fanticies with out books movies/porn or online "play", but in my experince most people start off with one or more of those thing untill they meet a partner that they can explore with.

Now, I would find it quite odd if you said that you didn't do that when you first started out.

As far as compering what I said to how gay people find thire sexuality, I feel that isn't even in the same ball park as what I was talking about. I was explaining what I ment when I said "fiction". It had nothing to do with finding anyones sexuality or sexual prefrence.

Shylah

i think the analogy i made is a good one and it represents how i view (IMO) what it means to call oneself a master/dominant or submissive/slave. It's not something you "stumble upon" because some movie or literature tittilated you. If someone told me, "well i am a dom because i read lot's of stories and saw a few bdsm films and they really turned me on" i would have to pause and wonder about them, to be quite honest.

Perhaps it's the difference between people who see this as something they do as opposed to who they are. i think books and movies and online are fine tools for learning and exploring but self discovery and growth sprout from a different seed altogether.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Post #: 55

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:44:30 PM

Hieronymus

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Joined: 3/12/2007
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In fiction, Animated or not I learned about BDSM since I was about twelve. But I always saw it as something I liked and turned me on, But was so far away from me in case of reality. Begin last year I met a girl and she became my girlfriend. And I just shoved all that package under my bed. "That wasn't me, that wasn't for me." I actually felt perverted that such things turned me on and was afraid to acknowledge that part of myself since I had her. We got to know eachother personally and emotionally. And she has problems with ther emotions and accepting certainties and taking things for fact or believing in them as being positive. We already where very close at that moment and had a very open relationship. And one time she said; "I'm tired of this, I'm tired of myself. I do not want to belong to myself. I want to belong to you, You have reason. Will you be my reason?" And deep inside myself a book opened. The package I shove under the bed came back in a deep psychological way. And almost instinctively I answered her: "Yes, I will be your Master." And for one reason she understood the weight of the things said and what it ment what I said. And she answered back to me very shy. "Yes please.."

We are very open in our communication and since then we talked much about the things that evolved from that revelation. And she now knows all of me and my desires and persona. And she loves me for loving and guiding her, whilst being merciless on other moments. And recently we got sexual and I discovered she is actually a masochist and deep in myself lies a sadist I did not seek in myself but enjoy more than I would like to admit. We developed the psychological side first. In a very vanilla way. And now we both are discovering this world and I take her by my hand and she is more than willing to follow. Quite how I became a "Master" or am growing to be one with my "slave", or growing to be- slave. We found our way to happiness.

Felt the need to share this after reading this thead.

_____________________________

There is something that I feel
To be something that is real
I feel the heat within my mind
And craft new changes with my eyes
Giving freely wandering promises
A place with decisions I'll fashion
I won't waste another breath

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Post #: 56

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:44:48 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

Reading over this and some of the various opposing view points, I had a thought. While some see it as a title you only get from owning a slave, and other see it as representing a skill or ability to control... both have something in common. Both seek a definable quality or state which justifies the title... both are looking for a condition by which it is deserved. So if you boil it down, though these two view points come at it from different angle, both are saying "What makes some into a Master is that they have done something to earn it." That, in itself, is a long way from it being a mere self appointed title.

Just a thought.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 57

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 2:50:21 PM

Kris2012

Posts: 6
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kris2012

O.K. I've seen a few people so far who have said, "owning a slave" in responce to the question. So, I have another question. Is that really all it takes to be a Master/Mistress? As you can see from my posts, I am completely new to this community. I've read through a few sites and I'm in the middle of my first real book. From what I've read and what I know of myself I would consider myself a Dom. So at this point... all I have to do is go out and get a sub and I'm a Mistress? ;:? Somehow... That doesn't sound right. Or am I misunderstanding you guys?

I would say that what more there is to it, is a matter of how you use the term "Mistress". I see it as a word that represents a role therefore I have to be in some relationship where I have that role in order to use that word.

If you want it to mean something more than you can figure out what you have to do to claim it.

For me a difference is clearer betweew the words dominant and owner -- I think someone can be a master or mistress in either of those but I personal see the world differently when I think of myself as a dominant or an owner. How I view would be quite complicated to explain.... if you have a few hours and can come over for hot chocolate I'd be more able to explain it than in mere words on a screen.

In responce, I have 1 question.... Will the hot chocolate have the little marshmellows?

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 58

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 3:57:38 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

OMG, only a pathological Masochist could endure that. Only an evil Sadist could sit through a course like that without turning in to mush.
<<shudder>>
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I signed up for an On-line course that I found being touted by Sally Struthers....I have a diploma which none of you other so called "masters" can probably produce....I am the one and only true MASTER!!!

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 3/30/2007 3:59:20 PM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 59

RE: What makes a master into a Master? - 3/30/2007 4:19:39 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kris2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kris2012

O.K. I've seen a few people so far who have said, "owning a slave" in responce to the question. So, I have another question. Is that really all it takes to be a Master/Mistress? As you can see from my posts, I am completely new to this community. I've read through a few sites and I'm in the middle of my first real book. From what I've read and what I know of myself I would consider myself a Dom. So at this point... all I have to do is go out and get a sub and I'm a Mistress? ;:? Somehow... That doesn't sound right. Or am I misunderstanding you guys?

I would say that what more there is to it, is a matter of how you use the term "Mistress". I see it as a word that represents a role therefore I have to be in some relationship where I have that role in order to use that word.

If you want it to mean something more than you can figure out what you have to do to claim it.

For me a difference is clearer betweew the words dominant and owner -- I think someone can be a master or mistress in either of those but I personal see the world differently when I think of myself as a dominant or an owner. How I view would be quite complicated to explain.... if you have a few hours and can come over for hot chocolate I'd be more able to explain it than in mere words on a screen.

In responce, I have 1 question.... Will the hot chocolate have the little marshmellows?

Sure.

That's how I usually drink mine. But I don't drink tea or coffee so I couldn't offer that sincerely.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Kris2012)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: What makes a master into a Master?

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