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bully or Dominant - 4/1/2007 11:33:13 PM   
servilecat


Posts: 126
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		i recently met a new submissive.  She was showing us some of her bruises and asking if this was normal.  Basically our answer anytime we hear that question is 'what's normal?' But she did concern me as it was obvious she was hurt and had started to cry.  Whether this is a personal issue or a case of just wrong, i have no idea since so many relationships are just a mix of what works. 

In her words He leaves bruises and pinches her breasts so hard it leaves blood blisters, He reacts with what seems no control when He gets angry and takes things out on her flesh.  It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration. 
Other then explaining the necessity of a safe word and hoping He respects it, i'm not sure what to tell her that we havent already said to her.
Any ideas?  Not sure how to answer her or help her without butting in.  If it were a vanilla i would be more then happy to string him up for the abuse....
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/1/2007 11:43:26 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		Bottom line...I would never scene with an angry Dominant. The anger gets in the way of the nonverbal and sometimes verbal communication that is so necessary.
 
To me, it sounds like abuse, but I don't know them personally so for me to judge would be out of my league.
 
People scene differently and much of it sounds like abuse to me...that doesn't make it abuse. It doesn't even make it approach abuse, it just happens to be my perspective.
 
My advice, would be to support her if she needs it, but to stay out of it unless she invites advice.
 
 

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to servilecat)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/1/2007 11:49:31 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		My personal adage has always been "A Dominant must be in control of themselves before taking control of another." When a person is angry, they have lost self-control, therefore they should not be controlling anyone else at that time, or at least, should not be acting upon it. At very least I would try to impress that upon her, and if that is his way, she would be better off out of it. But I agree, it is a tricky situation and so hard to judge from outside. However, it's also sounding that it's not really consensual on her part ... and to Me, that also makes it abusive. Be supportive, she'll need it! Good luck.
Maam Jay

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Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to spanklette)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:15:46 AM   
Alloces


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/14/2004
Status: offline 		waves ta spanklette..as you know spanklette I am truely a Sadist and what servile has been talking about here even to Me smacks of abuse ...I will say this I do hope servile that you ccan find a way and or means to delve further into this and aide this girl if she needs it ....this lifestyle already has too many black eyes from abusive people and if you can prevent another then kudos to you ...and are you the same servile cat I know from the yapoo place hmmmm .........anyway .....just My opinion and I could be mistaken..

(in reply to MaamJay)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:25:01 AM   
rmanrr


Posts: 358
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Folks...

MaamJay you said it best. Full agreement here.



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Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr

"the road untravelled is the loneliest." Me
Courage...the ability to overcome obstacles during the course.
"to be insane is to be original!"...Me

(in reply to Alloces)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:27:24 AM   
hawkwolf7


Posts: 85
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Another Sadist here...

In general, I cannot see her crying while talking about it, unless it was (or is becoming) non-consensual. That the bruises didn't arise out of a scene, but an angry dominant simply screams red flags to me.

Perhaps ask her if she is ready to rescind her consent? If so, then use all the same tools and support that you would for an abuse victim. If not, then she'll have to do it if/when she's ready. That's hard to accept, and even harder to watch, especially when you truly care for someone's happiness.

Good luck,
HawkWolf

_____________________________

p.s. Everything I write is simply one person's opinion: mine. Feel free to take what is useful and blow off the rest.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.

(in reply to Alloces)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:27:39 AM   
servilecat


Posts: 126
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		That be little ol' me Alloces Sir.

Nice to see a familiar albeit sadistic <wink> Face around here...Hope all is well with You.

Room 3 is nothing but bots now.  i havent seen or heard of A/anyone from the old haunt in a year.  i suppose i'm just not there at the right times or much anymore.  The city i moved to last August is full of the lifestyle with private dungeons in People's back yards and get togethers all the time so not much online time anymore.

Be well!

(in reply to Alloces)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 12:37:57 AM   
servilecat


Posts: 126
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Thank You Everyone,

Yes, i have every intention of following through if this is a simple case of abuse. i wanted us to be able to give her all the options and hope she is able to take it from there.

I know people get angry and frustrated but to take it out on someone that has placed their trust in you by uncontrollably hurting them physically or emotionally is crossing the line. 

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 2:16:03 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		He sounds as if he calls himself a "Dominant" and knows she knows, or has experienced too little to know he's a fake. Also, I think the ability to control your emotions is fairly important in a D/s relationship so that the sub. doesn't take any more than she/he wants to or can. That's why SSC is so important.

I personally think this guy is a bit of a bully who calls himself a Dominant so he gets to act how he wants. If I were in your shoes (and I don't know how well you know this sub.) I would try to be a mate to her and see if you can't watch out for her, maybe offer to mentor them both, then you could see first hand how he treats her, and if you think there's a problem teel them both, even try to convince her she should leave this guy if you think she needs to.

Good luck. I'd be interested to know how it turns out.

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:17:11 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Abuse is abuse . Weather it is vanilla or in the lifestyle. If she is crying about it then have her dump the so called dom and move on.

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:33:37 AM   
apettiger


Posts: 131
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline 		believe it or not, i was unaware for almost a year that i was being abused.
when O/others would say that to me, i would defend him, beliving myself in love.
until the day came when he beat me so bad i had to have a close friend care for me for about a week, missed school and didnt even leave the house.
i told him that being with him was like being trapped in a cave with a wounded bear and he told me that i could deal with what the bear wanted to do to me or i could leave...... i bolted for the door.
it has been only 3 months and there are still times when i think that i still love him and should give him another chance, but, thank the gods, my friends dog-pile on me and prevent me from doing something stupid.
what i am trying to say is that sometimes, when in the middle of it all, it is not easy to see what is going on and then there is all the emotions that come along with it.
leaving an abusive relationship has got to be the hardest thing i have ever done..... no, thats not right, staying away from him is the hardest thing, but with the support of my friends, i am getting my independence and self-worth back.

_____________________________

378-828-272

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:40:51 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servilecat

i recently met a new submissive.  She was showing us some of her bruises and asking if this was normal.  Basically our answer anytime we hear that question is 'what's normal?' But she did concern me as it was obvious she was hurt and had started to cry.  Whether this is a personal issue or a case of just wrong, i have no idea since so many relationships are just a mix of what works. 

In her words He leaves bruises and pinches her breasts so hard it leaves blood blisters, He reacts with what seems no control when He gets angry and takes things out on her flesh.  It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration. 
Other then explaining the necessity of a safe word and hoping He respects it, i'm not sure what to tell her that we havent already said to her.
Any ideas?  Not sure how to answer her or help her without butting in.  If it were a vanilla i would be more then happy to string him up for the abuse....

We're all human; I get angry, frustrated etc occasionally, too! 
 
But what I NEVER do is actively and physically dominate my girl when I'm in such a mood.  Those are the times when I need space and time - *alone* time, until I've cooled down.
 
At the risk of passing judgement (gasp), your friend sounds more like she's being abused and it's time for you to ask or her to consider if she's truly happy in that environment "personally*!  I've long since ceased to be amazed what women (esp submissive) will tolerate in a seemingly misguided loyalty or devotion to their abusive partner.
 
My gut feeling is she needs to get tha hell outa there!
 
Focus.

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 4:59:14 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline 		Devil's advocate......
There are always two sides to every story, with that in mind it seems pretty impossible to me how anyone could get to the bottom of it without butting in.
Just from what you have stated it sounds to me like there is a complete lack of communication between them.
Since I have been in a similar situation where a submissive came to me whining and crying over some pretty heavy marks...oddly enough I did not know her, I suppose she just felt like I was someone she could talk to or seemed to her that I was a sucker.....anyway unknown to her I knew the dominant she was referring to, very well in fact.....so as it turns out she consented to everything, knew up front all that was planned, then was slinging crap about the dominant....she never used a safe word.
Since I knew the dominant very well I did butt in, when I had both sides of the story I confronted the submissive and strangely enough she suddenly did not want to talk about it....she never said this dominant was a liar or anything.  After that experience I am even more cautious to believe just one side of a story regardless of physical evidence....at least in the BDSM community. 
Abuse is nothing to take lightly.....and on the other hand it is not a topic that should be toyed with for the sake of extra attention or for one to have a poor me pity party.
YMMV.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 5:13:29 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I don't know the first hand account, but I hate to say, I've seen the situation before.  A lot of U/us have.  Unfortunately, there are abusive (yes, I said it) people who hide behind the lifestyle to excuse their behavior.  A key warning sign, as O/others have said, if these instances are occurring in fits of anger.  Yes, this does constitute a bully.  Scenes, punishments, and reprimands should be when a Dominant is in control, and most people are not in control when they are angry or frustrated.

If I'm not mistaken, there was some mention of a very active community where you are, and I would assume, this new submissive is also.  From My personal experience, if their relationship has turned non consentual, it will probably gather attention quickly.  Keep the offer of friendship extended to her, if she should need/want it. 

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 5:13:52 AM   
Mustardseed


Posts: 291
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		Two recommendations:

The Difference Between BDSM and Abuse by the Lesbian Sex Mafia

Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum ~ A list of about 38 questions to help the ambivalent figure out if a relationship is worth staying in, based on how the majority of previous people interviewed felt after either leaving for staying. Within the first ... three questions, I think ... is one on physicial abuse. It is the only one where the author is insistent that there is only one right answer. The kinky may have to adjust the question a bit for their needs:

"Has my partner ever cased me serious physical injury [so badly I went to the hospital / so badly I cried post-"aftercare" / so badly my friends were shocked by the marks / when that partner was already furious and out of control / whatever else may apply] more than once?"

That's paraphrased, but that's basically it. There are other issues that may be relevant, or may just help her feel better about the decision of leaving after the fact.

Good luck to her!

< Message edited by Mustardseed -- 4/2/2007 5:18:03 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 5:34:01 AM   
Nikolette


Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline 		I think that people occasionally agree to a relationship where they consent to physical violence against themselves--- and they haven't fully accepted that consent within so they feel very betrayed when the other person is simply doing what all parties agreed upon.

Is that what is happening here? I donno. It seems like it.

My only recommendation if you want to help but not get overly involved... is to ask her if she feels like she was consenting to that type of behavior from him. And to ask if she was being honest with herself about whether she can take/accept/wants that type of treatment.

Now some people may freak out about this.... but I've definitely struck my property in anger. Do I beat them? No. Do I make bruises on them and batter them? No. Have I smacked their mouth when they were being waaay to sassy and was I definitely irritated/angry that they did such a thing? Yes. Have I discussed this to varying degrees and explained what they should anticipate from me and kept open a line of communication so that they can come talk to me about issues and concerns? Yes. Do I think this falls into the area of abusive? Not at all.

Having a great deal of experience with abuse and being pretty well read on the subject- the heart of abusive behavior is a sense of ownership and entitlement. The line that separates the two (in my observations) is the consent involved. And consent isn't as simple as Yes or No to me. I think people can, as I stated above, say they consent but not really be honest or not really know what they are getting into. And I think a NON abusive person is going to do their damn best to make sure that the person that they are collaring/sceneing with makes sure the person is really mindful about what they are consenting to. I think an abusive person looks for people who are foggy about things and exploits that- even if its "consensual".

So to get to the meat of the issue- if she was acting hurt and crying- its because he is doing things that are harmful to her. Harmful to her psyche, harmful to her body, harmful to her spirit. And I believe that is pretty clearly abusive and inappropriate. So you might also ask: Is this a good place for you to live. Is this a place (I mean place as in situation) where you feel safe, secure and healthy? Is this a place where you want to be?

It seemed like to me she knows its not normal and knows its not right and was looking for validation that what was happening was wrong.

_____________________________

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." ---Mahatma Gandhi

(in reply to servilecat)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 6:25:47 AM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline 		Me again.....even after I posted something has been bugging me, I reread the original post several times and just couldn't put my finger on it until I read Nikolette's post....I don't completely agree with her entire post but the one thing that thumped me is when she wrote:
It seemed like to me she knows its not normal and knows its not right and was looking for validation that what was happening was wrong.
Especially the words: she knows its not normal.
If what the submissive in question says is true....asking if this mark or that bruise is normal, and then confiding that her dominant (or whatever he is to her, which thus far I have not seen clarified...play partners whatever) does things to her when he is angry or frustrated.
Oh look, my dominant attacks me when he is angry and here is the marks he leaves on me, is this normal?
Eh....sorry folks this just does not jive with me.
Is this a cry for help...or is she crying wolf?


_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

(in reply to servilecat)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 6:28:27 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		I know abuse is abuse wheather D/s or vanilla, I took it as read that that was understood. I was just trying to say that this "Dominant" isn't upto much as a Dom.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 6:36:18 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		In general if someone feels like they have to ask if "this is normal" or "is this abuse" about the relationship they are in then the answer is right there: you wouldnt' have to ask those things if it was a good and appropriate relationship for you.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to servilecat)
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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 6:46:14 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		There is too much that is not being said for me to advise. It is easy to sympathize when someone cries, but that does not always make them right, or a victim.

i have talked to and seen far too many girls who freaked out after being marked, but had no problem with what was happening as it occured. Sometimes marks show up later, and some skin types mark easier than others. If she is new, the Dominant Himself may be in the process of becomming familar with her body.

Without placing blame on the Dominant, it would be good to hear what the girl says she wants. Asking if this is normal may have been her truest motive. She may have had an entirely different reaction if the response had been envious of her marks, or at least approving.

The OP mentions "It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration." i would like to point out that anger or frustration are not the only reasons to pinch, and etc outside of a scene. This can be part of "living the dynamic" and is in no way abusive because it occured outside a "scene".

For me the bottom line is that if the girl is in over her head, and playing with a Dominant who is not a good fit for her, she needs to leave the relationship. i just hate to see what could be a good Dom get a bad rap from what might be worked out between them with better communication.

Master's dorei

(in reply to Nikolette)
Profile   Post #: 20
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