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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:22:16 AM   
SirDiscipliner69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

FWIW, it's not "Labor Day", it's "MAY DAY". May First.


Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you


Ross
©º°¨¨°º©

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:31:34 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
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From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Too much confusing culture for government and pursuit of power in this thread as they are not close to being the same. Does culture have some influence over these things, of course, but not to a large extent.

To be honest I had a big chuckle at the title of the thread as it is so typical of western culture. Western culture spends so much time judging others and themselves, placing right and wrong on everything and thinking life is some sort of contest that has a finish line that will determine if you are a winner or a loser.

I do not get Islamic culture outside of knowing the extremist who paint most people’s view should not be considered. I know nothing about Eastern Europe, African and a bunch of other cultures as well. All I know is the two cultures I have been raised in American and Asian. Both have their good points and both have their bad points. The rub is those points are part of a double edge sword.

For example Western culture preaches more individuality that frees people up and help transcends social status and exchange of wealth and progression but this also causes self obsession, poor community building and caring for one another. Eastern culture takes community and family life and duties to these things extremely seriously but these things also cause lack of changes or progression at an extremely slow pace as these things are used to keep things as status quo as possible.

I am from a Democratic Asian country so please stop confusing government with culture. Every country can look back in it’s past and cringe at what it has done. This can also be burps that happen in the present. People and government are two different things and culture belongs to the people.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:33:28 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Oh we have the same thing here - no May Day for Britain since it became a socialist thing. Even though its been a holiday that day for centuries back before Christianity.

Now its "spring bank holiday" whatever that means, and placed away from 1st May as far as possible, which is nothing except a day when the banks are closed but everything else in the retail world is open for business as usual. A festival of conspicuous consumption, which just about sums it all up!

E

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:41:53 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Toservez - good points.

But surely being a democracy, the way the government is constituted and conducts its affairs must be at least strongly coloured and possibly even determined by the culture of the people by whom it was elected, unless we are to hold that the democratic process is detached from the people, and far be it for me to suggest such a thing!

In this way, we could be perceived as guilty for our governments' actions and attitudes, since we elected them. To the angry Muslim in the street, I would venture that this is how it is perceived, since they have little knowledge or experience of how things actually work - for instance Bush getting at best just over half the vote, and Blair getting 30% of the 70% of votes cast compared to the number of electors.

And then there is the other problem which I would guess that Muslims might observe, that even with our democratic process we still end up electing people who have little or no moral fibre and little or no intelligence! Hardly a ringing endorsement for adopting our processes.

E

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:47:05 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

why we have right to impose our ways?
There was nothing to that effect in my response. In fact I specified that trying to change another cultures ways was not possible. My point was in not submitting to them because in submission we portray acceptance. Not necessarily in our culture where it doesn't matter, and fine people such as yourself, don't see anything wrong with adapting; "while in Rome". My point was to the woman of Iran, Jordan, Afghanistan, wherever; living under those rules. What could have been a beacon of hope turns into another opportunity lost.

I could go on and point out that this new power in the US Congress represented integrity and honesty. I'd be risking being accused of a Republican slant to point out that, at least with this opportunity, it didn't happen. Either that or Speaker Pelosi really does "honestly" believe the treatment of woman in Islam is acceptable.

quote:

First off I guess, we have to define what are our ways?
How about this - No tolerance for any of the items on the list. I can stand with that definition. Can't you?

There is no "all good" or "all bad" implied by that position. Stand firm and clear that there is evil and it is not tolerated whether its the "west" or Islam perpetrating it. It seems simple. I don't seem them as a people to be "uncivilized" or incapable of grasping the concept of liberty and freedom.
quote:

I think what we need to have is a proper exchange of ideas if we're to solve the impasse we're in, which is why I asked the question really.
Tell me, what better opportunity will there be? The Speaker of the House, a female, with the stated goal of opening up just what you desired, a "exchange of ideas"; she visually exchanged acceptance.
There is intolerance of liberal positions on this matter because they are in their very nature hypocritical. A Christian symbol is attacked by the ACLU. A Muslim refusing to pick up a person with liqueur as the MN airport is not. Hypocrisy is to me inherently disgusting!

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 8:57:35 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		So they are primitive. But this is not our culture. We did not develop the culture, we did not experience their history therefore we are not to subjugate them to our morality.

For example, I would be against getting too friendly with a country that condones female genital mutiliation. Now here is one of the most extreme points and will probably get alot of followers to support intervention, even ½ way across the world.

But that does not make it right. To intervene in a foreign culture is wrong period, and until people can accept that instead of being a bleeding heart advocate for every hapless being in the world, nothing will change.We have to look out for our own first. We have problems just as bad. Our culture is far from superior.

Even our "art" is base and lacking in meaning. The only thing we have to our name is hillbilly music, and 60-70% of that is without meaning. We are outdone in every other form of art and science by Europe, and surprisingly a few other places.

We should be importing culture, not exporting it ! Replace Jerry Springer reruns with something from the BBC. Put some Al Jazeera on instead of our TV news. Let kids listen to Tchiakovsky instead of Two live crew.

Let people again turn to the old for wisdom. And let them turn to the young for encouragement. Let the cancers of society die, and nurture the healthy parts.

Now the problem becomes just who is to define which is which ? Are we ? Addicted to videogames and movies on DVD, cellphones and ipods ? Is it we who are superior ? I find that a bit difficult to swallow.

Are they savages ? Well if they are LEAVE THEM ALONE until they are not savages. But we can't do that. Somehow the evangelical spirit has pervaded capitalism. They must comply. Resistance is futile. They comply or our bombs will be coming.

We are God himself, or the hand of God. And we will wipe out all other Gods to prove it.

Yes, we are superior, in our own minds.

T

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 9:24:54 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth - of course, I vociferously oppose all the items on your list. I see no value whatever in denigrating and limiting half of all people based on their sex, just as I see no value whatever in doing the same based on any other characteristic - including in our case based on wealth. Behaviour is the sole measurement for a person's worth, and sole reason why someone might be afforded special status in either direction.

The thing is though, not all those items on your list would be endorsed by Muslims either. I live amongst them, people of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin and even in those two groups which we might feel are akin, there are marked differences in their observance. Yes, we get the guy walking down the road, trailed by the woman all in black with the kids, but we also get women in more western dress out by themselves.

The guys hate me, I can it in their eyes; I'm taller than them and look them in the eye - not because I want confrontation, but because there is no way I'll be cowed by their ideas of whats right and wrong. But if they keep those ideas to themselves, theyre welcome to them. And theyre not bad people in the end - my neighbour Adrian goes round the mosque regularly when he's drunk, taking his cider with him and desperate to get into a fight (a British thing we'd do better without) - they could easily kill him and no one would know, but they dont - they invite him in and talk to him with respect, despite his disrespect of them.

And talking about Syria in particular. Yes, its a Muslim country, though there are a fair few Christians too. But mostly, its more like Iraq pre invasion with a nationalist government that by all accounts is far from being Wahabi inspired, but rather moderate as regards its religious mores, being more interested in nationalism than Islam per se.

As for Nancy, yes one could consider it a surrender etc - but thats down to interpretation, and I see it as rather a reasonable approach to take if one is hoping to open dialogue with an enemy to meet them on their terms so that there is nothing to discuss but the situation, without extraneous factors being brought in. Thinking that the whole of western civilisation will collapse because she wears a headscarf is to stretch things a little dont you think? Especially when Mrs Bush and Condoleeza Rice have done the exact same thing, with presumably at least some of the same motives. All that the three of them did in wearing a headscarf was remove this as an issue for their hosts so that real business could be done - the day she starts wearing it in the House and insisting that other women do too, you will have a point perhaps.

E


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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 9:30:36 AM   
toservez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Toservez - good points.

But surely being a democracy, the way the government is constituted and conducts its affairs must be at least strongly coloured and possibly even determined by the culture of the people by whom it was elected, unless we are to hold that the democratic process is detached from the people, and far be it for me to suggest such a thing!

In this way, we could be perceived as guilty for our governments' actions and attitudes, since we elected them. To the angry Muslim in the street, I would venture that this is how it is perceived, since they have little knowledge or experience of how things actually work - for instance Bush getting at best just over half the vote, and Blair getting 30% of the 70% of votes cast compared to the number of electors.

And then there is the other problem which I would guess that Muslims might observe, that even with our democratic process we still end up electing people who have little or no moral fibre and little or no intelligence! Hardly a ringing endorsement for adopting our processes.

E


The problem is many governments currently and in the past are not a reflection of the people who put them into power but that is just as a stepping stone to grasp more power. Just look at all the current governments. King George’s beliefs come nowhere at this point coming close to representing the majority of Americans. Iran power structure is being fought over by clerics who most of the people do not fully embrace their beliefs and a madman for President. All reports, at least BEFORE the Iraq war, were that the Iranian people do not hate America and Great Britton at all, but their government does.

The problem with all human beings is that we view things from only the perspective of how we have lived or the values we hold to be most important. The problem comes up when people just cannot grasp that there are other perspectives and priority of values in this world. So I am sorry but western history is full of good and bad things just like Eastern and Islamic worlds. It is easy to point to the good things in our cultures/countries because by the nature of our own values it is what we think is most important and therefore the most time and effort are put into these things.

For a light example, my parents are well off financially. My Dad is a top surgeon and my Mom is a published college professor. They can afford to eat out at fine restaurants literally every night of the week. My Mom though has for twenty-five years now rushes home from work so she can fix a “proper” dinner for my Dad no matter how busy or tired she is. She gets comments after comments from friends over the years about how mean my Dad is for wanting her to do this but the truth is my Dad would prefer to eat out every night but to my Mom that would hurt her because fixing a meal for your family is very important in our culture. My point is, as we try to grasp Islamic culture we in the West are constantly judging and making decisions based on a right and wrong fundamentals of our own cultural values and preferences. When filtered through another culture these values and “right or wrongs” might have very little or no meaning.

Judging who is better is rigged from the start based on culture not because of culture.




_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 9:38:02 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		ToServez - I appreciate your points and dont think we're too far apart on the issue really. We do tend to judge other cultures based on our own, for we have no other point of reference, and we also tend to pick up on whats most different and particularly whats negative by comparison to our own culture, without realising a bigger picture.

I also think your point about our cult of individuality vs others' cults of community is accurate. I think we have strayed too far and the result is such a disconnect between us that we almost dont have a western culture as such, because that culture is not a whole but a collection of subcultures. On the other hand, I wouldnt want to have a culture where community and family is paramount either, as I dont think that answers to personal needs. We need a happy medium, somehow.

E

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 9:39:43 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

But, no we dont have a right to impose our ways on others. What we do have though, is a right to insist on fair treatment for all, which naturally isnt going to go down well with some Muslims in some countries, but that is the bottom line. Its not a bottom line drawn from any particular religious basis, but merely from the view that everyone deserves respect and equitable treatment.


E,

Interesting observation.

I do have a question, however.

Why do you believe that it is "right to insist on fair treatment for all"?  Why does "everyone deserve respect and equitable treatment"?

Where do this "rights" come from?  And why do you believe them to exist?

FirmKY


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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 9:51:38 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Interesting observation.

I do have a question, however.

Why do you believe that it is "right to insist on fair treatment for all"?  Why does "everyone deserve respect and equitable treatment"?

Where do this "rights" come from?  And why do you believe them to exist?

FirmKY



Youre naughty, you know?

In the end, all rights are won and maintained by force. Whilst they exist in a notional form, they have no reality unless there is the force and will to make them real.

I believe in just and equitable treatment for all, because to hold the opposite view would be to support or at the least acquiesce, to treatment which I dont feel (in notional form) is acceptable. Absent such belief, it is perfectly acceptable to do whatever you will, as long as you get away with it, which would clearly not be a good situation, particularly if you are the one on the receiving end of injustice and unable to resist.

Thus, its my conditioning through education and life experience that informs my notion of what is fair and right of course, and it is purely happy good fortune that I live in a time and place where these notions are widely accepted and there is the will, authority and force to try to bring them into reality.

My education and life experience tells me that the world is a far better place for me and mine, in the presence of just and fair treatment than it would be in their absence, and so it is necessary for me to uphold that as true, even if it in the end it is a notional idea, though being shared by my culture overall it is made as real as possible.

Now, report for a spanking!

E

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 10:20:37 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		the view that everyone deserves respect and equitable treatment is the basis of modern western Culture.  No society with a caste system believes in these things.  No society of this sort has ever existed, but it is the ideal that we strive for in Modern Western Culture.  Toserve's correct in pointing out, that pretty much only white people engage in this sort of cultural self criticism, and beat ourselves up for not actually being perfect by our own artificial standards.

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 10:26:17 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Interesting observation.

I do have a question, however.

Why do you believe that it is "right to insist on fair treatment for all"?  Why does "everyone deserve respect and equitable treatment"?

Where do this "rights" come from?  And why do you believe them to exist?

FirmKY



Youre naughty, you know?

In the end, all rights are won and maintained by force. Whilst they exist in a notional form, they have no reality unless there is the force and will to make them real.

I believe in just and equitable treatment for all, because to hold the opposite view would be to support or at the least acquiesce, to treatment which I dont feel (in notional form) is acceptable. Absent such belief, it is perfectly acceptable to do whatever you will, as long as you get away with it, which would clearly not be a good situation, particularly if you are the one on the receiving end of injustice and unable to resist.

Thus, its my conditioning through education and life experience that informs my notion of what is fair and right of course, and it is purely happy good fortune that I live in a time and place where these notions are widely accepted and there is the will, authority and force to try to bring them into reality.

My education and life experience tells me that the world is a far better place for me and mine, in the presence of just and fair treatment than it would be in their absence, and so it is necessary for me to uphold that as true, even if it in the end it is a notional idea, though being shared by my culture overall it is made as real as possible.

Now, report for a spanking!


Lady E,  you are one of the few here that I really have a lot of respect for, yanno? 

You actually jumped ahead about two places from where I thought you'd go.  Saves me some work!

I was going to make the argument that your beliefs in "fair and equitable" treatment is directly rooted in your Judeo-Christian cultures morality.  In other words, they do indeed have roots in religion.

As toservez pointed out, we are all rooted in our culture.  Like fish in water, we never really notice it most of the time though.  Our concepts of right and wrong, or what is acceptable or not are all ingrained in us from our very early years, to a large extent before we ever grow up (nature vs nuture arguments go here )

The Christian concepts of free-will, individuality, of a rational world, and of respect for others, and the concept of "progess" is a very basic part of Western culture, even if we ourselves reject Christianity.

The inherent problem with such free-will, "respect for others" etc is that other cultures do not necessarily agree with them.  For example, in the Muslim world, the respect for Allah is much more important than individuality, or free-will.  Perhaps the highest morality is "submission to Allah".

One of the dangers to Western civilization is that our concepts of free-will and individuality come into direct conflict with such radically different concepts of morality.

If we adjudge all cultures as somehow "equal", in effect what we are doing is saying that "submission to Allah" - the lack of free will - is equally moral as our concept of free will.

So, when you logically concluded that there is no moral difference between the two, but "the other side" doesn't agree with you, eventually, your culture will lose out for the simple fact that they will be more aggressive on the issue of culture and right or wrong.

Consider it social evolution in action.

So ... this leads to an inescapable conclusion:  If you wish your concepts of morality to continue (much less expand to other cultures), you must become a partisan for your morality.

How do you do this?

Well, I see only two ways: by persuasion, or by force.

If you are not a partisan for your own beliefs, and morality, how can you even think to persuade anyone else that they should adopt them?  Especially in the Islamic world, which has very high cultural walls against foreign influences.

If you reject force, then what are you left with?

FirmKY

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 10:29:05 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Interesting observation.

I do have a question, however.

Why do you believe that it is "right to insist on fair treatment for all"? Why does "everyone deserve respect and equitable treatment"?

Where do this "rights" come from? And why do you believe them to exist?

FirmKY



We believe these truths to be self evident;
Sally Hemmings Husband

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 10:32:06 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Thinking that the whole of western civilization will collapse because she wears a headscarf is to stretch things a little don't you think?
E, I don't understand how you projected out to this conclusion based upon anything I said.

I enjoy travel specifically because of the different cultures I encounter. I tell you, one of the places I expected to have the least fun I ended up having the most - Turkey. The people were friendly to the point of suspicion. I thought one, introducing himself as "Jimmy -Sex Bomb" wanted to add beth to his harem. But instead he took care of us both, offered a sampling of local food, drink, and conversation. When I expressed interest in buying a bottle of what he offered, Ratka (sp?), to take home he went and got it and brought a receipt and change.

I have no fear of Islamic culture or the religion for that matter. I fear those who use the most radical interpretation of the religion and have a goal to kill "infidels" and enforce the type of repression that I document. A man and woman can live as a couple under any kind of agreed upon relationship dynamic. A government enforcing civil laws and inflicting punishing based upon those laws is another matter. I've said it many times before on every matter whether agreeing or supporting the particular issue of focus; any infringement of liberty and freedom must be opposed at every opportunity. I hope to never live under a regime as repressive as that of which we describe. However, speaking up against it, should be encouraged. It is not enforcing our "values" unless you consider the freedom to speak out is only a "western culture" item.

I don't believe it is the "west's" duty to change their laws. I do feel strongly, as we did with apartheid South Africa, we should put them out in the light for the world to see at every opportunity.

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 11:11:41 AM   
ToGiveDivine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I see no value whatever in denigrating and limiting half of all people based on their sex



I DO!!!   If they are lousy at sex, they need to be denigrated (or take a class or something)

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 11:55:12 AM   
toservez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

If we adjudge all cultures as somehow "equal", in effect what we are doing is saying that "submission to Allah" - the lack of free will - is equally moral as our concept of free will.

So, when you logically concluded that there is no moral difference between the two, but "the other side" doesn't agree with you, eventually, your culture will lose out for the simple fact that they will be more aggressive on the issue of culture and right or wrong.

Consider it social evolution in action.

So ... this leads to an inescapable conclusion:  If you wish your concepts of morality to continue (much less expand to other cultures), you must become a partisan for your morality.

How do you do this?

Well, I see only two ways: by persuasion, or by force.

If you are not a partisan for your own beliefs, and morality, how can you even think to persuade anyone else that they should adopt them?  Especially in the Islamic world, which has very high cultural walls against foreign influences.

If you reject force, then what are you left with?

FirmKY



I am sorry this is complete non sense.

Historically religions and cultures that get decimated it had little to do with the belief and therefore the fight for your belief of your own culture and religion. It was about survival after the “cause” with the biggest and best trained armies conquered their land and while there was always talk about enlightening the savages who do not believe in our ways, I think almost all of us believe the history of the world conquest were done for lust for power, wealth and glory and morality of culture never really enters into the picture.

Accepting that all cultures have good and bad points and yes even the assumption they are basically equal does not cause malaise that will be the cultures downfall. Having wealth of some nature and not providing the defense to protect that wealth will always supersede.

The people in the Middle East do not hate us because they believe their culture is morally superior and therefore should spread the world, which is just the junk the power mongers push. The people in the Middle East hate us because their quality of life sucks and they blame the rich countries who have pushed governments and agendas on them in order for them to get what they want. Also, quality of life is not about the size of a house and the age and style of your car.

So if you truly believe in your superior morality of your culture all you are really doing is keeping the chain of misunderstanding and fear mongering going. It is the smoke screen to the real dangers and causes of the troubles in the world and to having possible solutions to having true progress of all man kind and not just our own.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 11:57:10 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I agree with you. Especially in Africa, I think it is criminal that we in the U.S who have so much, could buy things like AIDs medicine and mosquito sheilds, to prevent Malaria for all of the people dying of preventable diseases, but don't, is a shame. Everybody can do a little something, as far as being charitable, IMO. A person doesn't have to be rich, they can donate their time on a local level. I see a lot of people who do that, locally.

And the fact we cannot distribute all of this food to starving people is also just a crying shame, IMO. I mean, one of the worst health problems in some western cultures (particularly the U.S.) is obesity. It is just ironic, and unfortunate. And probably preventable in many cases that we can't seem to get more food and needed drugs overseas.

I know that some of the countries who need aid are being prevented from accepting it by their own governments (Korea is a good example of this, as well as Sudan, and some other African nations) but still - where we can help, we in western cultures really should "just do it." And there are a lot of charitable organizations that are trying. Still, I wonder why it takes so long, sometimes.

I was so happy when Warren Buffett donated the bulk of his billions to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. That foundation is doing so much to prevent and help treat those afllicted with AIDs, as well as doing other socially charitable things. I hope he starts a trend among wealthy people, as far as putting more billions to chaitable use. How much money does one person really need, anyway?

- Susan  


Susan, I disagree with you there.
The West has poured in hundreds of billions of dollars into Africa through the "U.N." over the last 40 years and most of it (like all "foreign aid" has been stolen.
Mercedes Benzs, BMW's, private jets, luxury villas on the French Riviera, that's where our taxdollars have gone.
Oh, and also to the lobbyists on "K" street who helped pilfer those taxdollars.
I'd like to get a list of property owners on the French Riviera!
A few years back when then Treasury Secratary Paul O'Neil and "BONO" went on an inspection tour of Africa O'Neil, after touring many villages said; "Where's all the fresh water wells we paid for?" "None of these villages have fresh water wells and we paid $2,100 for each one! Where are they?"
In my opinion giving our money to foreign countries is simply not the *job description* of our government to be doing.
The people in Washington are supposed to be running our government, not a charity for foreign countries.
And that goes for all countries Israel and Egypt included.
How can we call those countries "allies" if they never pay back the U.S. Taxpayers and aren't helping us in Iraq?
I think George Washington said it best, "We should not involve ourselves in foreign entanglements."
As for being a "superior culture" you don't see people immigrating to Islamic countries, do you?
It's always Western countries.
That's another thing we need to end. A hundred years ago the U.S. needed immigration. With 300 million people we simply don't anymore.
The "global warming" people haven't picked up on that yet.
People who come to Western countries burn up 50 times as much energy and create far more greenhouse gases than they would in their own countries!


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 12:07:19 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

So,
is western culture perfect enough for us to export it with good intention?



No, rampant consumerism isn't impressive - plenty of money, nice car, nice house, plenty of the superficial, but not much in the way of substance.

In my book, there's two points worth considering here:

1) We have no right to impose our way of life on anyone. Believing that the West is right is a dangerous absolute that lays the foundations for the means justifying the ends - as per Iraq and Iran where tyranny is being excused on the flawed premise that we're showing them the Western way and they'll thank us for it in the long run - will they? shouldn't they be the judge of that?

2) Other cultures don't see us as anything to write home about. What is so great about a culture that can't see past its materialism and consumerism?, that places primary emphasis on individual wealth at the expense of basic human requirements? - such as a roof over a person's head.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

is there anything western culture could and should learn from other cultures?

E


Yes. We could learn that materialism and rampant consumerism do not serve human need.




_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Superiority of western culture? - 4/5/2007 12:12:25 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen
"Is there anything Western cultures could learn from other cultures?"
Yeah, don't be like them!

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 40
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