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RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 7:01:43 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind
Sooooo, how did she speak with her mouth full of cock?


lol well the funny thing is that at this point the cock is not in her mouth....so she can very clearly articulate....yes he was not clear on the facts, but i could see why he would not be, its in and out of her mouth the whole session.

quote:

 Sweetandinnocent:  I made sure to read all replies before I posted this.  While after reading the end results, he is obviously lacking in integrity, I'm still curious as to why you feel people should forgive him.  Not once in any of these posts did he say he was sorry, or admit he fucked up.


great question and i have to agree his nettiquette sure paints a different picture then the fuller picture i have now, but to answer your question....this is why i have lobbied for tolerance and understanding:

1 there is not a dom or sub in here who has not had a colossal fuck up

2 he came here asking questions

3 but most importantly, what is our goal? based on all the replies folks are rising out of their seats to "protect" the sub and "teach" the guy the "right" way of doing things.

but you have been lectured and shamed and verbally beaten up before right? sucks right? and it really doest have an impact you just turn away esp if its coming from someone who you dont know, and dont care about.

however what about those times in your life where you made mistakes and some one saw though the walls you had up just to offer some gentalness....that was when the wall melted and real transformation began

i remember this one time in a yhoo chat room this guy would come in and say in LARGE RED, ALL-CAPS,  the meanest most abusive things to every one there....and he came to all the rooms, every day,  talking about rape and murder and women and well you name it...

for weeks it was kinda scary and i jumped on the band wagon of hating this guy and trying to get the guy to leave.

well one day i realized that this guy must be awfully confused and in a lot of pain, so i wrote him a email that said "hey i just want you to know that i am here if you need some one to listen to you"....and to my surprise he wrote back....he was so sweet, i could not believe it, he began to cry and tell me of all this horrible childhood abuse and we talked and talked and became good friends.

it was amazing...and of course the chat room scariness stopped.

and what it tought me is that folks that have a shell around them are not going to make sweeping transformations in their lives by other folks pounding on that shell...the only way to change them is to love them.

and that was the goal here, to teach him, to help her, to make sure this situation wont happen again.

i talked to him for a long time last night, he is a really nice guy, pretty normal actually. i cant really account for duality of personality from here in the forums and there in real life, but if i had to guess i would say he felt attacked and he did what many of us do, tried to justify his behavior or get cagey or what ever..... each person defenses are different....

i think what happens on a board like this, and what happened for me, is that some one says something about limits being broken and it triggers the hurt and the anger some of us have about when it happened to us...and that is why the threads that ask a seemly simple question become so caustic.

i am not sure i am asking "people" to 'forgive" him...because to my mind its not our place to forgive or to punish him, he certainly did not consent to that ..LOL....but i was asking for tolerance because we never know the whole story, we all make mistakes...and.... this is a place of learning.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 4/6/2007 7:56:10 AM >

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 7:16:31 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The way I see things, any safety signal when used needs to cause action to pause or to halt, depending upon the agreed signals.

I find the red = stop, yellow = pause and check and green = great, more please are easily understandable by anyone I would play with.

Yes there are times someone is not able to speak (though I know someone who can audibly crack jokes with duct tape over her mouth). I try to make sure everyone playing knows that any rythmic and repeated moves in groups of three are a safe signal to pause and check the person. This could be three grunts, three pussy squeezes, three hand clenches, three licks, three blinks, three wiggles, and so forth. The trick is to rythmically repeat the sound or movement in repetitions of three until noticed.

One must also be aware of the possibility the victim is flying in sub space and is incapable of any speech or reaction, even though they may be past a limit. This is where asking them if they are OK should get a "green" response if all is well. If I get no response, I know it is time to stop the heavy stuff and commence with the cuddling.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 7:16:36 AM   
OnlyHis


Posts: 137
Joined: 2/25/2004
Status: offline 		Master and i started out with me using safe words but as the trust between us grew stronger we felt they were no longer needed. As Master became more adept at reading my body language. But it didn't happen overnight.
But as far as using them with someone else yes they would be in place. Because i wouldn't have the same depth of trust in others that i do in Master.
Just my pennys worth :)

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 8:37:25 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Tigress I get what you mean about someone repeating behavior like that and it being a sign that something else is going on- most dorks online like that really are just clueless and don't know any better.

But that doesn't excuse their inappropriate behavior in a chat room.  When I chatted, I got so tired of subs who would fall for the guys who just loved to dick around with the people in the chat rooms just to get them riled up and play games.  They'd always say "He's a total gentleman offline, he just likes to play around online." 

I'm sorry- a good person doesn't dick around with other people for fun like that and shouldn't need someone making excuses and apologies for his behavior.

This has nothing really to do with this particular thread, just pointing out that issues a person has doesn't excuse them from acting appropriately in social situations.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to OnlyHis)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 8:50:30 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		lol so true LA

the guy in the story was not playing games, he was very angry and very damaged, i trully believe he would have hurt women and maybe killed them....to my surprise he was young, 18ish,....and through compassion and listening to him over several months time, i got him to see that he was hurting folks , scaring folks, and needed some help. he found a clinic that works with his issues and he did get the help he needed....my point is that it would have never happened if the guy kept getting beaten up and ostracised.

chat rooms are silly places...big ole time addictive wasters, actually the only significant thing i can say ever came of my hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours in there, was this experiance...learning to turn my hatred, judgement and fear in to love and compassion...and seeing the results.











_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 9:42:59 AM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

ORIGINAL: OhBeMyMind
Sooooo, how did she speak with her mouth full of cock?


lol well the funny thing is that at this point the cock is not in her mouth....so she can very clearly articulate....yes he was not clear on the facts, but i could see why he would not be, its in and out of her mouth the whole session.

quote:

 Sweetandinnocent:  I made sure to read all replies before I posted this.  While after reading the end results, he is obviously lacking in integrity, I'm still curious as to why you feel people should forgive him.  Not once in any of these posts did he say he was sorry, or admit he fucked up.


great question and i have to agree his nettiquette sure paints a different picture then the fuller picture i have now, but to answer your question....this is why i have lobbied for tolerance and understanding:

1 there is not a dom or sub in here who has not had a colossal fuck up

2 he came here asking questions

3 but most importantly, what is our goal? based on all the replies folks are rising out of their seats to "protect" the sub and "teach" the guy the "right" way of doing things.

but you have been lectured and shamed and verbally beaten up before right? sucks right? and it really doest have an impact you just turn away esp if its coming from someone who you dont know, and dont care about.

however what about those times in your life where you made mistakes and some one saw though the walls you had up just to offer some gentalness....that was when the wall melted and real transformation began

i remember this one time in a yhoo chat room this guy would come in and say in LARGE RED, ALL-CAPS,  the meanest most abusive things to every one there....and he came to all the rooms, every day,  talking about rape and murder and women and well you name it...

for weeks it was kinda scary and i jumped on the band wagon of hating this guy and trying to get the guy to leave.

well one day i realized that this guy must be awfully confused and in a lot of pain, so i wrote him a email that said "hey i just want you to know that i am here if you need some one to listen to you"....and to my surprise he wrote back....he was so sweet, i could not believe it, he began to cry and tell me of all this horrible childhood abuse and we talked and talked and became good friends.

it was amazing...and of course the chat room scariness stopped.

and what it tought me is that folks that have a shell around them are not going to make sweeping transformations in their lives by other folks pounding on that shell...the only way to change them is to love them.

and that was the goal here, to teach him, to help her, to make sure this situation wont happen again.

i talked to him for a long time last night, he is a really nice guy, pretty normal actually. i cant really account for duality of personality from here in the forums and there in real life, but if i had to guess i would say he felt attacked and he did what many of us do, tried to justify his behavior or get cagey or what ever..... each person defenses are different....

i think what happens on a board like this, and what happened for me, is that some one says something about limits being broken and it triggers the hurt and the anger some of us have about when it happened to us...and that is why the threads that ask a seemly simple question become so caustic.

i am not sure i am asking "people" to 'forgive" him...because to my mind its not our place to forgive or to punish him, he certainly did not consent to that ..LOL....but i was asking for tolerance because we never know the whole story, we all make mistakes...and.... this is a place of learning.


What a lovely post crouchingtigress, and like you, I have My own frame of mind & thought, and I would never jump on the bandwagon so to speak.

Don't be a sheep lol.

To have empathy for other's, is a great attribute to have .

http://mistressrouge.webeden.co.uk/

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 11:01:06 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		So I pop on today and see all the additional posts.  Can't say as I'm surprised, I had a feeling we weren't getting the whole story, things just didn't add up.  And before everyone gets all forgiving, maybe you should ask if we are still getting the whole story.  The whole situation still doesn't really add up and I have the feeling there is more going on here than even the video explains.  Not to mention the question of whether this guy has permission to be publicly sharing said video... there are at least two other people who might object to that... we just don't know.  Someone else speculated this guy may have been doing this only to get attention, and I think that's a distinct possibility.  But apparently its really been much ado about nothing.   Don'tcha just love the net.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to MistressRouge)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 11:08:36 AM   
TantricOne


Posts: 28
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		safe words exist for a reason, one of which is not to cause lasting harm, any dom that would disregard that should be drawn and quartered for using the lifestyle as an excuse to be abusive

(in reply to Trampler)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 11:30:50 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

<snip> we weren't getting the whole story, things just didn't add up.  <snip>  Don'tcha just love the net.


DOINK... yup, fell right into this one

sidenote: its been so damn long since I had a dick in my mouth it didn't cross my mind that it might be impossible to say something with it there  edited to add: no I don't need anyone to volunteer their little weanies so that I could test the scenario...

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 4/6/2007 11:36:38 AM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 12:18:15 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

DOINK... yup, fell right into this one

sidenote: its been so damn long since I had a dick in my mouth it didn't cross my mind that it might be impossible to say something with it there  edited to add: no I don't need anyone to volunteer their little weanies so that I could test the scenario...

LOL... you know what they say, the devil is in the details (not sure why they say that... but there you are).  Besides, its not polite to talk with your mouth full.  

One good thing I'll say about all this, any submissive's reading it should be getting a strong message about the role and importance of safewords and that there is never an excuse for anyone violating them.  As others have said, there is no point in having safewords if they are ignored.  If even a few walk away from this feeling enabled to protect themselves, to object when a line is crossed, then at least something got accomplished.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 1:15:35 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

DOINK... yup, fell right into this one

sidenote: its been so damn long since I had a dick in my mouth it didn't cross my mind that it might be impossible to say something with it there  edited to add: no I don't need anyone to volunteer their little weanies so that I could test the scenario...

LOL... you know what they say, the devil is in the details (not sure why they say that... but there you are).  Besides, its not polite to talk with your mouth full.  

One good thing I'll say about all this, any submissive's reading it should be getting a strong message about the role and importance of safewords and that there is never an excuse for anyone violating them.  As others have said, there is no point in having safewords if they are ignored.  If even a few walk away from this feeling enabled to protect themselves, to object when a line is crossed, then at least something got accomplished.


Pardriag, I agree.  Whether the original situation was just trumped up for attention really isn't that consequential.  At the end, the post had enough hits for many subs to see that there are many D's out there that have the utmost respect for safewords.  While those who do not stand in the minority, yes, they are out there.  It was, yet again, another re-inforcement to know, and have trust for those involved in a scene. 

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 2:19:53 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag: One good thing I'll say about all this, any submissive's reading it should be getting a strong message about the role and importance of safewords and that there is never an excuse for anyone violating them. 


& that when you do use them make sure you use them wisely... the crying wolf aspect was also addressed here.

That respect for us as tops to honor a safeword cannot be abused by those who use this safeword in order to manipulate a scene.

Also there were lessons in this for all roles...



< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 4/6/2007 2:21:31 PM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: safe words whe does stop mea more? - 4/6/2007 3:53:54 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		Sort of like drinking and driving i must say, just one more might kill someone.
If someone i was submitting to ignored what my safe word was all about,
i just might ignore for a moment that i am a submissive, rising from my
knees to that six foot two, one hundred ninety pound, pet out of control.
Dearest Mystress at Mystressworld allows a boy to use tampon as a safe
word, but a boy is forewarned that a well used tampon can lead to dismissal.
Can't allow a boy to chicken out every time She raises Her requirements.
As always communication leading to trust, and fulfillment to that trust is the
foundation in any relationship. Care for what kneels before You, or You
may find no one cares to do so.

With Love and Respect, chia* (the pet)

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 4:05:12 PM   
nookie


Posts: 23
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline 		OhBeMyMind,

quote:

Sooooo, how did she speak with her mouth full of cock?


I think Jeff said it best.

quote:

Maybe with her mouth and the size of his cock, the Declaration of Independence might have been spoken clearly.  You never know.

Jeff

(in reply to OhBeMyMind)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 4:10:57 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		ROFL!!!!!!!

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to nookie)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 4:39:25 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		i completely agree.  While it wasn't the sole reason, my ex asking me "to wait just another minute" when i safe worded was definitely the straw that broke my marriage's back. 

i don't think many of us who do use safe words use them easily or lightly -- i often feel "ashamed" or "unworthy" the few times i have used it, and ignoring it "even for just another minute" or one more cane stroke would destroy any trust and respect i had for my partner.

Regards
jimini


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHousehold

Safewords are sacrosanct.  Ignore one just once, and that is it.

I agree wholeheartedly with Celeste.  Your sub should walk away from you and not come back.


_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to TheHousehold)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 4:54:38 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trampler

The thing of it is, is that it doesn't sound like there was much if any communication in that session.


really?  Frankly.. there is not enough stated one way or the other to make such a judgement.  I see more than a few people here jumping on a bandwagon....

and the bandwagon is missing a wheel.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Trampler)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 6:12:15 PM   
zindyslave


Posts: 601
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		Where did you people find this video? Seems that was the missing link in this whole discussion.

_____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/zindygirl

Only when you see the invisible can you do the impossible.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 6:20:09 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		The link that was posted quickly disappeared.  I suspect the mods pulled it as it violated the TOS.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to zindyslave)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: safe words when does stop mean more? - 4/6/2007 7:06:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno, I'd say at least twice a week I give a response to something thinking "This is utter bullshit and I can't believe the poster expects us to just fall into it and think this is really what's going on."

But there's nothing one can do except go with what you have until more info is given.  So I post from what I know giving as practical and persuasive advice as I can.  Someone out there just might actually HAVE that issue and be reading and it could help.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 100
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