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Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:17:57 AM   
SLAVEBOY32


Posts: 122
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Don't care who responds here, sub, Domme, male, female. Do you practice any form of religion, and if so what? Has your interest in D/s affected your religion, religous practices, or religous beliefs in any way shape or from?
Did your interest in D/s ever make you think about switching religions, or possibly cause you to stop believing in religion, maybe as a contributing factor?

12 years of Catholic school and insomnia over Easter weekend, can make someone wrestle with moral issues...lol.
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:25:19 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I do believe in God. I, too have had 12 years of Catholic education. It didn't manage to completely brainwash me, though, which some might consider a small miracle, and it did have its good points.

Right after high school, that Summer, much to the dismay of my mother, I spent all Summer at various kinds of churches, just to check out their beliefs and worship services. I attended a Baptist, a Greek Orthodox, a Pentecostal and a Jewish Synagogue. I attended the Baptist church for the longest, mostly because I appreciated their Gospel choir (singing is one of my main hobbies).

Today, I live five blocks from the Catholic church I try to attend every few weeks, but I don't really attend because I think Catholicism is the "one true" religion, it is because it is the closest church to my house, and I am too lazy to drive elsewhere. 

I still attend church, because doing it seems to give me a sense of comfort, and does a good job of periodically reminding me that I am not the most important being on the planet. I guess I consider myself to be "spiritual" vs. being "religious" -

Because, if I was stuck on a desert island somewhere, and the only church around was some kind of weird Voo-doo ceremony, for example, if they worshipped a Divine being that I could relate to as "God", and weren't harming other humans, as far as doing things like human sacrifices, etc., I'd probably attend. 

I believe in trying to live within the confines of "The Golden Rule" (Do unto others) but beyond that, I've pretty much just given up any kind of religious predjudice, or thinking one is any "better" than another (as far as I know). If I ever had any, which I mostly didn't, at least not after grade school. 

I don't care what religon (or lack of one) anyone else has, really, beyond sometimes simply being curious about whether or not they do have one, or believe in God.

I can get annoyed with either end of the "extreme religious spectrum", though, on occasion. I can get as tired of Jehovah's Witnesses trying to convert me, as I can with Atheists insisting there is no God, and telling me I am an idiot for believing in one. I think whatever anyone wants to believe is fine, as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat.

Participating in D/s and bdsm has had zero effect on my religious practices or spiritual beliefs.

Nice thread topic for Easter week-end.

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 5:13:36 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SLAVEBOY32)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:32:35 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		No, there is way too much pain and suffering in this world for me to believe in a Creator. I understand this whole free will thing, and he sent Jesus to forgive us of our sins, but I just don't buy it.

I too was baptised, raised, and confirmed Catholic, but now view organised religion to be one huge scam. It's all about the $$$$, or in the case of some Muslims, it's all about control, and power over other people's lives.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:39:00 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Really? All of it? With all due respect, what about all of the religious organizations like Habitat for Humanity (begun as one, anyway), and the ones that do things like allow people to "adopt" children from overseas (or even locally), and support their educations via monthly donations from contributors, that supply them with free food, clothing, and things like new irrigation systems for their family's farms, and build things like schools?

Are every last one of them a total and complete "scam"? I hope not, because I donate money to some of them on a regular basis. Before I do that, I check out their "overhead and administrative costs" on-line, or phone them to inquire, to insure most of the money is actually going to the "cause" and not to line some administrative officers' pockets. 

If they were consistently lying about things like overhead costs, I am thinking some IRS auditor would have caught on by now, and alerted the media (which peridicially seems to happen, but I stay away from donating to those organizations, and also, such is life, IMO). 

Some of them are completely non-denominational, just labelled "Christian" in general. Not that that even matters, actually (to me). Some of them seem quite effective (to me), as far as ameliorating some of the suffering in the world you are protesting about.

My response to your post (above) has nothing to do with religion specifically. It's just that to me, the actions of these organizations seem to beat the alternative, which in some people's books, basically amounts to complaining, while doing nothing about, the "sad state of the world", so - I consider a statement that the work of all organized religions everywhere, is all a "scam" to be somewhat one-sided. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 5:20:55 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:46:27 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I believe in God.  What I have trouble believing in is church, synagogue, temple, what have you.  I was rasied Jewish and have been strongly considering converting to Christian. In both cases while I keep to the traditions and tenants of the faith, I do not beliee that I am a BETTER Jew or Christian becasue I join all the others in a specified building once a week. I pray daily, and I am fairly sure that God is listening even if I dont do it in a predetermined house of worship.
My lifestyle has not impacted my religious views.  My slave has, he is Christian and a big part of why I am considering the switch. What I do behind closed doors does not change whether or not I believe. 
Hope that makes sense, its WAY early in the morning.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 4:51:10 AM   
womanworshipper


Posts: 71
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		i do not believe in God or follow any religion. This has nothing to do with my D/s or bdsm activities.

i do practice Goddess Worship in the bdsm sense, but that's something different. My Mistress/Goddess is a (very liberal) Muslim. We/we respect one another's beliefs and do not impose them on each other.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 5:40:00 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I understand this whole free will thing, and he sent Jesus to forgive us of our sins, but I just don't buy it.


Okay, so what don't you buy? The free will thing? Or one of the various myriad claims made about, or purportedly by, Jesus?

And, do you actually understand the free will thing?

I mean, if your nature was preset, your choices would be severely limited, and your free will would be compromised.

And if  your choices were predetermined, your future would be known in minute detail (provided the choices of others are too, given a relatively deterministic universe), and there would be no free will at all.

Hence, any argument about suffering goes back to the age-old dilemma that humans have been faced with too: where is the trade-off between the necessary control to cut back on suffering and the necessary freedom to live as you please?

The Founding Fathers had a clear opinion on this, it seems. An often used quote is, in its original form, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

The Bible has pretty much stated the same thing. Free will is sacred. It is the foremost gift from the creator. S/he urges us to be kind to others, and to improve ourselves, but has ultimately left the choice to us.

This is pretty powerful to me, as a Dom: My slave has free will, yet chooses to submit this most precious thing she has to me.

Of course, from the sorry state of affairs that you pointed out, it would seem that we may have started out neutral, but either something inherent to the nature of suffering is viral, or maybe the delicate balance could have gone either way and just happened to go the "wrong" way. With free will as paramount, and the choices humanity has made, the Catholic position that humans are inherently "sinful" or "corrupt" makes more sense, although I don't subscribe to it.

As far as accusations that the Bible condones violence etc. are concerned, remember the time at which these messages originated; we see shadows of this in countries like Afghanistan even today.

If you were to start urging people in the direction of doing good, would you suggest they turn their lives on end? No, you'd be written off as a radical, or in more modern times a "hippie" or something. So, you write something that will improve things incrementally, yet lay the groundwork for future generations to read more into it, and hope they catch a glimpse of the Grand Design(tm). Not in the sense of a planned future, but in the sense of your hopes for what humanity could be.

This is why the Bible doesn't say that you shouldn't have involuntary slavery: almost no-one would listen at the time, and the slaves would be no better off. Instead, it states that you should treat them better, and leaves it up to you and your descendents to eventually realize that you're not really supposed to do this to other people. This awareness started in the US in the late 19th century; we're slow to catch on, but we do, eventually.

And then, some time later on, you send them Jesus. Or perhaps he just happened to come along and had glimpsed more of this Grand Design of which I spoke.

At this point, I would adress DiurnalVampire, as what I am about to say is relevant to whether she wants to be a Jew or a Christian.

Christians of all denominations have remembered Jesus' life, deeds and words, as they have been passed down. Ignoring the issue of integrity of transmission for the moment, there is still something really wrong here: they have largely forgotten his spirit.

What Jesus preached to the Jews, of which he was one, was the same message that the Bible had held all along: be kinder to each other, be better than the Law (Jewish Bible) requires, and improve yourselves. And, depending on whether you believe the Gnostic gospels, he seems to have additionally preached that humanity had the potential to, at some point, transcend the physical plane.

As a final point of potential interest, with only a limited relation to the rest of my post, I will mention my own view on this physical plane. It came to me when I was considering the idea of Purgatory, the idea that my loved ones would suffer for the purification of their souls, despite having been comparatively virtuous people, something that seems rather "wrong" to me.

I came to the conclusion that this is Purgatory. Souls incarnate on this physical plane to atone, or to refine themselves, or gain insight, or some similar purpose, and the torments of this physical plane allow the contrast between "good" and "bad" to become visible, so that these souls can improve too.

It would also make some sense if the physical plane were a sort of centerpoint, with both denominations (if you will) being valid, yet sorted to either side, depending on the preference between "good" and "evil", with a distance to the physical plane depending on the purity (or strength) of this preference, giving us something analogous to the concepts of Heaven and Hell.

Okay, that's all from me. Hope this was interesting.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 5:56:09 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Aswad: That was a wonderful post! I too think the Earth plane, and living here is "Purgatory". I believe this is as bad as it ever gets. I am not too sure about reincarnation, though, or how many times before (if any) I may have been on Earth (or incarnated on perhaps another planet), for the same reasons you stated, being in  "Purgatory".

I recently read a book that proposed that all souls choose at which time they will incarnate (be born), and where, and with whom (family, relatives, etc) depending on what specifically they think their soul wants to accomplish (or make up for, as in the "Purgatory" idea), before they actually incarnate as a physical being.

I thought that was kind of an interesting idea, and would explain why some seem to suffer more than others (they chose it before they were born, to "purify" their own soul, even though that may seem totally weird, it could be possible, IMO).

But this book said that when people are born, that they forget eveything they planned out, they would do while they are here - or else their plan would not be much of a challenge (like knowing the end of a story, or a movie before it ends), and if they knew all of that before-hand, and did not lose consciousness of it when they were born, then their soul would not have as much of a chance to grow while they were executing that plan while here, living their lives.

This idea wasn't attached to a specific religion, it kind of transcended the whole "religion" area, actually, and seemed more of a "spiritual" idea. It didn't eliminate the idea of free will, because it said that peope "map out" the general things they think they need to do while they are here, but still have choice as far as exactly how they implement those "spiritual goals" while they are here (the "details").

It did say there are souls who choose evil, and never have any intent to do much if anything, that is "spirtually progressive" while here, and may work even against others' progress in that regard, but said it is next to impossible to tell who these people really are (for instance, more than a few folks, world-wide, are wrongly convicted, and sent to prison, sometimes for life, as one example).

Or, even if a prisoner is rightfully convicted, and did the crime, maybe doing a really bad crime to begin with, was some kind of "spiritual test" for that person, and they need to overcome a particular happening.

Or - maybe some criminal is actually supposed to actually be helping another soul along their "spiritual path" while they are here, and so posed a "test" for them, by committing some crime against them - but it said it is very hard to tell if that is the case (or not).

And so the book said - people should try to combat what they perceive as evil, but also be very, very careful, about judging anyone's overall life and complete motives, because in the grand scheme of things, it could be next to impossible to ever know what those are, unless you are actually God.

I suppose I won't find out if it's true until I physically die, but it is kind an intriguing (to me) set of thoughts.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 6:41:00 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 5:59:02 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

Personaly i am practicing somthing in the line of Paganisem. i am rather eclectic and in reality i just belive there is Somthing, somthing more than this flesh and blood, more than thi material plane. i belive this Somthing can be worshipped in any form, the Christians worship it, the Pagans, the Muslims, the Hiindu, the Shinto, the Satanists and Occultists, all that belive there is more between Heaven and Earth and somhow draw that into their lives is in contact whit the big It, and for me, the way i have chosen to have contact whit It is through Paganiem and Occultism.

Be well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 6:12:59 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		If I must name a religion, it would be Christian. I was raised in a Christian Church: Disciplines of Christ demonination, a reformed dutch protestant form of Christianity.

Beyond that I am a spiritual person, I pray and mediate regularly, I live my life without shame, focused on doing what is consensual and beneficial for myself and those around me, and never once hearing from the Divine that how I live my life is anything other than what is good for me. Good may not always be easy but the point is to become the best TammyJo I can become.

We pray at meals together as a family and celebrate some holidays but we all come from different churches so we do this as a family and not in a organized group of others. My slave comes from a more conservative background but he hasn't believed most of that interpretation for years before he came to me; he still works with some shame issues but I think he is getting over them as he learns most of it is based on fear.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 6:20:34 AM   
BBBTBW


Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline 		I am a Christian.  I don't consider myself  "religious"  people do things religiously, it is not limited to going to church or worshipping GOD.  I consider myself spiritual.  I am of the belief that my relationship with GOD is personal between myself and GOD.  It is not for anyone else to judge or comment on.  I don't fellowship on a regular basis simply because the church I choose to go to is 60 miles away.  I do however try to make it once a month. 

My beliefs and spirituality used to cause conflict with my "BDSM" side...However, I was listening to the pastor of the church I go to and his message essentially was "GOD made you who you are, follow his will, do his bidding but do it in the style that he gave you as a human.  If he made you an extrovert, be that extrovert for him etc..."  GOD made me a DOMINANT person so I am going to be a DOMINANT for GOD.  This doesn't mean I am forsaking my desires in the world, it means I am incorporating them.  There is no more conflict.


_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 6:24:16 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		BBBTBW: Yes, I do agree. I dont think God is probably hating all bdsmer's, either. I actually believe it might be part of some people's "spiritual path" (for some in maybe a bigger way than for others).

nephandi: I thought your post pretty much narrowed it down to what I might believe, in an even more "bare bones" kind of way, if one doesn't specify a Divine being as being called, specifcally, "God." It's also, IMO, one possibly pretty good explanation for human-kind's draw toward forming "religions" and "spirituality".

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 6:41:55 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BBBTBW)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 7:20:09 AM   
MiladyAngelique


Posts: 107
Joined: 8/11/2006
Status: offline 		I am in a weird position with this and yes I have a strong thought process I should not even try to explain myself and I will most likely be flamed until I am nice and crispy but..............

I will say right now I am catholic and yes I practice.

I not only believe in God I also believe in the other Goddess's and Gods.... I look at other religions and see similarities in mine. I will do Hellenistic as a comparison.

Hellenistic
  1. has a male figurehead (Zeus)
  2. there is minor gods who people prey to help them with particular causes
  3. significant female (Hera)
  4. son of male figurehead helps save the world
  5. dualistic society.... good and evil
  6. illiusion fields and hades
  7. temples of worship
Catholicism
  1. has a male figurehead (God)
  2. there are saints and archangels who people prey to help them with particular causes
  3. significant female figure (Mary)
  4. son of male figurehead helps save the world
  5. dualistic society.... good and evil
  6. heaven & hell
  7. temples of worship
  A lot of religions are very similar and I come back to I am not convinced that My God is not the same as your God even if you are not Christian


Now has BDSM effected my practicing of my religion no... I was catholic (with these opinions) before I was Domme I am catholic now I am Domme.


I have been blacklisted by the local Mormons cause I live by the life Motto "Do unto others"... they try to convert me I try to convert them .... and I have a lot more success with them then they do with Me..... hmmmm maybe if they stopped sending cute young boys.

But to answer the topic yes God exists very strongly in my world and I have lent on him heavily in the past, I have warred within myself if what I am doing with my life is right and if He would be ok. I believe strongly that he gave me free will for a reason, and so long as I do no permant damage to someone's body or soul, he accepts all of us. Domme, Dom, sub, slave, gay straight or bi, in His heart we have a place and a home.

< Message edited by MiladyAngelique -- 4/7/2007 7:56:00 AM >

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 7:34:01 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I'm a Christian with a strong faith. I enjoy the Episcopalian church services but I am not a member of any particular denomination. BDSM made me look at my faith, briefly, to see if there was a conflict but not nearly as much as polyamory did. Neither caused me to stop going to church or practice differently, but I am much more cautious if I do attend church with what I volunteer to answer questions since the reaction I got when I said I did phone sex for a living, when asked by the pastor.

Nothing has caused me to consider switching religions as I believe in what I believe. I have faith. I haven't questioned my faith. I think there are other valid paths, mine is not the only one, but neither BDSM nor poly caused me to stop believing what I believe is true.

~E

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 7:45:34 AM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAVEBOY32

Don't care who responds here, sub, Domme, male, female. Do you practice any form of religion, and if so what?

Yes, I am a Christian.  Raised in the Anglican Church (Church of England).

Has your interest in D/s affected your religion, religous practices, or religous beliefs in any way shape or from?

Yes.  My boy follows Wiccan teachings.  He was raised as a Catholic, but has in later years subscribed to Wicca.  From him I have learned many things that really appeal to Me - such as the connection with the Universe and the link to Nature.  And of course, the notion of Goddess worship appeals to us both.  When I pray I now also include Her in My prayers as well.

Did your interest in D/s ever make you think about switching religions, or possibly cause you to stop believing in religion, maybe as a contributing factor?

Yes - since meeting the boy I have considered it.  But My Christian Faith remains strong.

12 years of Catholic school and insomnia over Easter weekend, can make someone wrestle with moral issues...lol.


Thanks for the thought-provoking post.  It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
With kind regard,
~Kara

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 7:52:20 AM   
Lorgrom


Posts: 98
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAVEBOY32

Don't care who responds here, sub, Domme, male, female. Do you practice any form of religion, and if so what? Has your interest in D/s affected your religion, religous practices, or religous beliefs in any way shape or from?
Did your interest in D/s ever make you think about switching religions, or possibly cause you to stop believing in religion, maybe as a contributing factor?

12 years of Catholic school and insomnia over Easter weekend, can make someone wrestle with moral issues...lol.


I grew up with my mothers family being Catholic and my fathers family switching from one faith to another. So while I have a very firm belife in divine power(s). I do not practice any formal religon.

As for me being active in the D/s lifestyle. It has nothing to do with my faith. If anything since I belive that the best way to honor and respect the divine power(s), is to live my life how the spirits show me. Since D/s to me is part of who I am. Then being in the D/s lifestyle is how I should be, and in turn is giving honor and respect to the divine.

(in reply to SLAVEBOY32)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 8:23:34 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
quote:

I thought your post pretty much narrowed it down to what I might believe, in an even more "bare bones" kind of way, if one doesn't specify a Divine being as being called, specifcally, "God." It's also, IMO, one possibly pretty good explanation for human-kind's draw toward forming "religions" and "spirituality".


Hi

For me it have always been Somthing there, bit i dont belive one Religion is right and the others wrong. i belive one have to call the Devine by whatever name one self find apropriate and what give meaning to the person. i think human beings have a strong need for the Spiritual, but the type of Spirtuality needed will wary from person to person, and somtimes wary in a peron's life from situation to situation.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Lorgrom)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 8:27:02 AM   
BeatMeDaily


Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		After years of Catholic school, going to church every Sunday no matter where we were ...

No



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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 8:27:36 AM   
justagirl7


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings everyone,

I do believe in God, Jesus Christ, etc.. I also believe in the "natural order" that the Bible teaches. (just my opinion).

Respectfully,
just a girl

(in reply to nephandi)
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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/7/2007 8:31:26 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		nephandi: That is what I believe too. 

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BeatMeDaily)
Profile   Post #: 20
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