Abused into submission (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:31:11 PM)

In replying to WhipTheHip's "What I Find Hard to Understand." post, this sort of came up, and I'd like feed back on it. This is not a common interest thread, nor one I expect many to reply to. This is a delicate topic. I realize it touches upon the illegal-taboo on this board. However, illegal activities are referred to only with reference to the victims of the crime, and all said activities have already occurred in the past. Neither I nor any I know have been criminal in said crimes. I would advise those with an emotionally-charged, yet similar past, to take a breath of air before both reading and response. I would ask those who are unable to relate to give this one a pass.

---
A young Master, my slaves have also rather young- mostly eighteen to twenty-one. Some older subs, but none of them apply to this post.

I will not claim a complete understanding of as to why females of more years may chose to take up this sort of lifestyle, but I would hazard to consider it may be for every different reasons than their younger counterparts.

So far, I've had about six or seven slaves in the past several years for a term I would consider substantial enough to grow to understand their respective backgrounds and motivations. I would point out, here, that six or seven is not large enough of a sample to be scientifically reliable- part of the ambiguity in the analysis. However, this half dozen has maintained a constant trend: past abuse.

In this following- I'm considering the slaves I know from real life, as opposed to simply the ones I've collared.
Most have been raped. (Over half.)
A fair number have been beaten or otherwise physically abused. (Somewhere between a third and half, roughly.)
Almost all felt worthless. (All but.. maybe, one? Two?)
Most felt shamed. (Two thirds?)

I can not account for their pasts. I do not know how many have been abused in a control population, such as Virginian girls of my generation- nor would I trust official figures.

There's not much that needs to be considered about their pasts. They're sad, but this can't be helped. In this regard, I would ask one not to consider this an angsty post.. I'm looking for answers for the future.

Three things I'm looking for understanding of.
-How has past abuse effected their respective personalities?
-How common in this issue for younger females?
-How might this problem be addressed for potentially future-victims?
-How might victims recover, if recovery is necessary?
-Would they have always enjoyed submission, just it being forced on them gave them a chance to see this?

Of this sample, only one has taken her rapist to court. She was unwilling to state she had raped her- twice. Instead, she made the claim that, one drunken night, he had attempted, and she had been successful in doing away with him.

Almost all raped sympathized with their rapists; the most notable exception was the one taking her rapist to court. Odd, too. While extremely difficult for them to admit it, in many ways, their respective rapists had been their first boyfriends, carrying on abusive relationships. ..some had even come to love these abusers.
..do they seem to mimic these relationships later on?

As a final note, this is not unique to my life. I've found a lot on CollarMe.com who claim a similar experience from the past. Some even do in their profile. While I'm inclined to take things on the net with a grain of salt, the apparent seeds of correlation are worth noting.

---
This applies to BDSM because, in my view, this is what brought me here. Most slaves and potential slaves I have gotten to know have a sad story to tell. I feel there's a problem here, or, at least, something that's not understood. I have a strong interest in growing to understand this issue.

Despite a great deal of thought and concern, I find my knowledge in this area lacking.  I am unaware of any one specific community which has both the interest for such a topic and the stomach for it.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:49:20 PM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_720581/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#720665
past abuse and fetishes, is there a link?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_565279/tm.htm
Ds innate or learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299233/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299318
BDSM and Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475351/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475351
Did childhood abuse cause you to be a dominant?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475077/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475077
Are you submissive because of abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299539/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299539
Do past issues make bdsm easier?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281017/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#281017
Going from abuse to conscious slavery?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_204258/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#204258
bdsm and abuse survivors

http://www.collarchat.com/m_124139/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#124139
sub role and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_78189/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#78189
when I was a child...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_566753/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#566812
Is abuse a precursor for being a slave/sub?




SusanofO -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:51:01 PM)

There can be some connection, IMO, between those who choose bdsm, and a past abusive history (no matter how hard anyone tries to deny that). However, lots of "vanilla" folks have also been abused, and this population of folks certainly does not comprise all of bdsm submssive (or Dominant) land.

I do not know this from personal, first-hand knowledge of course. But I have read about it (over and over). However, I have also read that participating in a healthy bdsm relationship can work to heal these past wounds, in some ways. And what can be really wrong with a loving relationship?

- Susan  




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:52:33 PM)

Thanks.  This is very helpful.




thetammyjo -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:55:58 PM)

A friend of mine in NYC was seeing a therapist to deal with the fact that she is a survivor of being abused for years by her father. Her therapist came up with this brilliant therapy to explain her abuse was the cause of her submission.

So my friend mentioned me and my background.

Totally threw her therapist for a loop.

LOL

I think what happens is that part of being out as kinky is being more comfortable with discussing sexual things. Unfortunately there is not an small number of both males and females who have survived rape or other forms of sexual abuse. Therefore I am not surprised that we also speak about those pasts when we talk about our kinky sexuality.




onestandingstill -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 12:56:24 PM)

quote:

In this following- I'm considering the slaves I know from real life, as opposed to simply the ones I've collared.
Most have been raped. (Over half.)
A fair number have been beaten or otherwise physically abused. (Somewhere between a third and half, roughly.)
Almost all felt worthless. (All but.. maybe, one? Two?)
Most felt shamed. (Two thirds?)

Other than being raped none of the above phrases apply in my life.
I've not been hit except 2 small incidents in my life andonly had limited regular spankings as a kid.
I feel no shame, nor do I feel worthless.
I think often people that have dealt with these issues in their own selves just are drawn to BDSM just like the rest of the world.
Maybe what you should be consdering instead is why do you think you're attracted to women with low self esteem and self worth?
Maybe it's the girls you're attracted to more than the lifestyle being the destination for us from abuse.
I do think the non-consenual sexual acts done to me at an early age has a lot to do with why I'm a nymph sort of person, but to me sex & BDSM are two different components so I'm not thinking it has to do with my choice to participate in an energy exchange.
suzanne




selfbnd411 -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:01:42 PM)

Two of the dominant females I have been with were rape survivors, and probably the most sadistic dominant I have ever served came from a very traditional Asian family.




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:04:28 PM)

These aren't stats for just BDSM. They apply to women across the board. You will find that the numbers change because the sample size changes (hence giving better results), but it's fairly reliable to say that more women than most think have been abused in some fashion. Men, too.

We are not any better or any worse than any other subset of society.

Master Fire




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:09:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
Maybe what you should be consdering instead is why do you think you're attracted to women with low self esteem and self worth?


The oppurtunity to fix something?  No, this isn't it.  I would like to say it is.

Most of my slaves come to me.  I appliciants hell on trying to apply, weeding out both those I wouldn't be content with collaring and those who I feel are either not ready or unsuitable to be collared.  Mine are the ones who make it.  Maybe the ones who have been abused have the most to gain from it.  My typical offer is a life away from the one that they've had.  Perhaps this is more attractive to the abused?  Still, my considerations you cited were including those I haven't collared and the ones who I know, yet haven't even applied to be collared, as well as the collared.

Outside of submissive tendancies, I also look for intelligence.  Most of my slaves have had 4.0's throughout their college careers, though this is only syptomatic of something greater I see in them.

Yours is a legitimate idea.  I just don't see it fitting at the moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
Maybe it's the girls you're attracted to more than the lifestyle being the destination for us from abuse.


Certainly a part of it.  As much as I love to control, it would be empty, to me, if it were only for myself.




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:12:50 PM)

I was certainly curious about this- it being more prevalent in common society than often advertised.

For everyone, actually, I would like to point out that this is a community I feel is more likely to be willing to address this sort of issue.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:15:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I was certainly curious about this- it being more prevalent in common society than often advertised.

For everyone, actually, I would like to point out that this is a community I feel is more likely to be willing to address this sort of issue.

Which is why it's not possible to know at this time whether abuse really is more prevalent in kink, or whether it's simply discussed more openly or even rewarded for claiming abuse than in common society.




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:16:16 PM)

To clarify my point of view:

For those I've had, rape was an introduction.  Into sex, into submission, into something outside the vanilla world.  The majority will claim that it has had nothing to do with their respective decisions to take a role as a slave.  I feel inclined to explore the contrary because I feel that many who might enjoy this lifestyle never join due to lack of introduction.

Another factor comes in in that I would have a difficult time believing that a childhood of cautious submission would not facilitate ease and fimilarity in such a role.




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:21:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I was certainly curious about this- it being more prevalent in common society than often advertised.

For everyone, actually, I would like to point out that this is a community I feel is more likely to be willing to address this sort of issue.

Which is why it's not possible to know at this time whether abuse really is more prevalent in kink, or whether it's simply discussed more openly or even rewarded for claiming abuse than in common society.


It's alright.  I spent half of today taking an Engineering exam for a system of chemical processes in which we were explicitly assigned -not- to solve numerically for the sake of inducing a search through confusion and insurficient information.  My Physics professor always enjoys telling us just how uncertain we are of how this world even begins to work.  I've been working on an mathematical equation for three years that I've yet to solve.

Something about having to search for even the start to an answer makes this feel more real and less cheesy.  It's alright if I never find the answer.  I grow with each attempt, even if it's feeble.  Even here, I've gained a couple more views on the issue.  I intend to read the complete of those links this evening.  When it comes down to it, this is the best I can do.  This is enough.




spanklette -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:21:41 PM)

I was already into the well immersed in the lifestyle as a submissive when my situation of abuse occurred, so for me it's really a moot point.
 
But, as a whole, and in general...if not more honest, people who engage in our lifestyle tend to be more direct when approaching sexual/personal topics...especially when we are around other lifestylers. So, sometimes we find out more about people, on average, than in a vanilla setting.

It took me two chats to tell my Daddy that I had been abused, because He needed to know that. That information was vital to Him in order to keep our growing dynamic healthy.

It's taken me months, if ever, to reveal any abuse to anyone vanilla. For the most part, it's a need to know situation. It's not something everyone I come across needs to know about because I've moved past it. And, my vanilla buddies would never really have access to the subconscious part of me that will always have a scar...even though, I'm healed. 




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:28:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette
But, as a whole, and in general...if not more honest, people who engage in our lifestyle tend to be more direct when approaching sexual/personal topics...especially when we are around other lifestylers. So, sometimes we find out more about people, on average, than in a vanilla setting.

It took me two chats to tell my Daddy that I had been abused, because He needed to know that. That information was vital to Him in order to keep our growing dynamic healthy.

It's taken me months, if ever, to reveal any abuse to anyone vanilla. For the most part, it's a need to know situation. It's not something everyone I come across needs to know about because I've moved past it. And, my vanilla buddies would never really have access to the subconscious part of me that will always have a scar...even though, I'm healed. 


Most.. of those I mentioned never told anyone else.  It's so hard for them!  I feel so bad for the poor girls.  They're happy, cheery, often exception individuals.  The one who's been through it the worst is currently hosting a local TV program on those channels no one ever watches and taking part in some local theater plays- not exactly the cure to cancer, but she's holding her 4.0 (which is more than I can do.  Damn apathy to homework completion.).

It's a silent shame for most of them.  One that a lot of them manage to bury.  Sometimes, I've felt guilty for having them recall such events to tell me about them.. many of them have "moved on".  Why is it people fail to realize what effects them so blantantly?




daddysprop247 -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:30:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

To clarify my point of view:

For those I've had, rape was an introduction.  Into sex, into submission, into something outside the vanilla world.  The majority will claim that it has had nothing to do with their respective decisions to take a role as a slave.  I feel inclined to explore the contrary because I feel that many who might enjoy this lifestyle never join due to lack of introduction.

Another factor comes in in that I would have a difficult time believing that a childhood of cautious submission would not facilitate ease and fimilarity in such a role.


there is a truth i've shared many times in the past when this subject has come up, and will share again now:

i am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive.

think about that. kinda makes sense doesn't it? for some reason it took me until the age of 21 to come to that realization. would i have been so submissive had i not been abused early in life? of course, i would just be a submissive without an airport hangar's worth of baggage.

my childhood abuser was so attracted to me because he sensed...as predators do...my deep submissive nature. he didn't want a challenge. he didn't want a struggle or a fight. he knew that he could take me easily, use me up, then when i no longer became desireable due to puberty, toss me aside and play the role of normal uncle, without anyone ever being the wiser. because he knew i would never stop him, and that i would never tell.

unfortunately that wasn't my only experience with abuse in life, as i got older my submissive nature repeatedly got me into insane, scary, damaging situations. it was my discovery of the D/s lifestyle, and of what it meant to be submissive, that saved me. i finally realized that i was not just some hapless, hopeless freak of nature with the world's worst luck, but that i actually had a place in the world and that there were others like me. finding a Master, and especially the wonderful one i did, turned my submissiveness into a thing of beauty and value, whereas in the past it had been nothing but a burden and source of shame and self-disgust.





domiguy -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:35:38 PM)

I believe it is naive to suggest that there is an equal amount of past abuse found in this lifestyle as others....Many just haven't put a specific name to their relationship...There is no doubt in my mind that the amount of past abuse reflects directly on many of those who have "chosen" to seek this lifestyle out.




onestandingstill -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:36:33 PM)

quote:

am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive.

Very interesting twist.
One that makes very sound sense to me.
Thanks for sharing that,
suzanne




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:37:39 PM)

That's a beautiful story to me.  Not for the problematic beginning, but for the happy ending.  Perhaps in the telling, too, for such honesty.  Thank you.




CuriousLord -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:39:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I believe it is naive to suggest that there is an equal amount of past abuse found in this lifestyle as others....Many just haven't put a specific name to their relationship...There is no doubt in my mind that the amount of past abuse reflects directly on many of those who have "chosen" to seek this lifestyle out.


It's a good point.  I'm inclined to agree.




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