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Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:14:09 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		I've read some past threads about passive aggressive behaviors in submissives.  I recognize that this is an issue for me and have been working really hard not to act or react in a passive aggressive manner and to just be direct - which can be really hard for me, but I am learning to ask for things, etc..

I had a little AHA moment earlier this afternoon and it made me wonder about some issues in my recently ended relationship.  So my question is about passive aggressive behaviors in D types.  Do any of you recognize that you behave this way?  If so, how does it affect your relationship?  What about failed relationships?  Do you think this played a role in the ending of the relationship? 

Does anyone have any experience with working through being passive aggressive with their partners help/encouragement?

I know this is a very personal issue, but if anyone feels like sharing their thoughts or experiences, it would be greatly appreciated.

I found these traits that are often present in passive aggressive men listed on a website and boy do they seem familiar with what I just came out of:
 
A passive-aggressive man won't have every single one of these traits, but he'll have many of them.  He may have other traits as well, which are not passive-aggressive.
 
*FEAR OF DEPENDENCY  - Unsure of his autonomy & afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs - usually by trying to control you. 

*FEAR OF INTIMACY - Guarded & often mistrusful, he is reluctant to show his emotional fragility.  He's often out of touch with his feelings,  reflexively denying feelings he thinks will "trap" or reveal him, like love.  He picks fights to create distance.

*FEAR OF COMPETITION - Feeling inadequate, he is unable to compete with other men in work and love.  He may operate either as a self-sabotaging wimp with a pattern of failure, or he'll be the tyrant, setting himself up as unassailable and perfect, needing to eliminate any threat to his power.

*OBSTRUCTIONISM - Just tell a p/a man what you want, no matter how small, and he may promise to get it for you.  But he won't say when, and he"ll do it deliberately slowly just to frustrate you.  Maybe he won't comply at all.  He blocks any real progress he sees to your getting your way.

*FOSTERING CHAOS - The p/a man prefers to leave the puzzle incomplete, the job undone.

*FEELING VICTIMIZED - The p/a man protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds.  To remain above reporach, he sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.

*MAKING EXCUSES & LYING - The p/a man reaches as far as he can to fabricate excuses for not  fulfilling promises.  As a way of withholding information, affirmation or love - to have power over you - the p/a man may choose to make up a story rather than give you a straight answer.

*PROCRASTINATION - The p/a man has an odd sense of time - he believes that deadlines don't exist for him.

*CHRONIC LATENESS & FORGETFULNESS - One of the most infuriating & inconsiderate of all p/a traits is his inability to arrive on time.  By keeping you waiting, he sets the ground rules of the relationship.  And his selective forgetting - used only when he wants to avoid an obligation.

*AMBIGUITY - He is master of mixed messages and sitting on fences.  When he tells you something, you may still walk away wondering if he actually said yes or no.

*SULKING - Feeling put upon when he is unable to live up to his promises or obligations, the p/a man retreats from pressures around him and sulks, pouts and withdraws.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:37:04 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		My last relationship was with a very passive aggressive man. He made progress when he was in counseling and when he spoke with me, but since he didn't actually want to change he was constantly backsliding into old habits. His tendency towards PA was a DIRECT cause of the end of our relationship. (I asked if he would do something for the next 30 minutes; he said yes; he then went into his bedroom and shut the door and played a video game; when I pointed out to him that it was 30 minutes and he had flat out lied rather than just say "no I don't want to do it" he was ashamed; rather than admit his failure he began lashing out at me and told me to get out. I got out.)

M has pointed out to me that I tend towards passive aggressive, and he has helped me to make some changes. I don't always remember my "good habits" at first, but when I recognize what I am doing I make a conscious effort to stop, apologize for my behavior, and communicate directly what is wrong (rather than guilt trips or "waiting" for him to show/give something that I need).

I think that I have been PA in the past with submissives, but it was never intentional. I do warn those who will be in long term relationships with me (or who I think will be) that I think it is a trait I tend towards, and I ask them to point it out to me if they think I am doing it.

Dealing with passive-aggressive has been difficult for me. The hardest part is that when I am emotional I need to stop and identify exactly what my emotions are and if they are in response to something, what they are in response to. Knowing what I am feeling helps me to communicate directly instead of passively.  Instead of saying "you don't love me; you never call me" I can say "I feel unimportant and unwanted; I felt rejected that you didn't call and tell me what you were doing tonight." It is difficult to make myself vulnerable by expressing feelings of rejection, hurt, marginalization - but it is more effective than making statements filled with hyperbole and untruth that come across as nothing but vile, ugly venom.

I have recently considered that M has his own issues with this, but have not had a chance to sit down and talk to him about it and see what coping techniques we might use to deal with it.

~E

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:47:55 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Many doms are almost constantly passive aggressive- tons of insecurities they can't be open about.

Me?  I'm open and honest and too hard on myself to let me fall into those traps anymore.  More often I use straight up anger and dragging up old shit as my bad habits.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Elorin)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:49:09 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
My father is a card carrying member of PAA  (Passive Aggressives of America)

I used to be disgusted, now Im just amused.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Elorin)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:56:28 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		To me the PA person walks into a happy group and immediately wants to know why everyone looks upset with him/her. Silly behavior that makes everyone around them uneasy. If I ever act that way, somebody slap me.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 8:59:31 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

To me the PA person walks into a happy group and immediately wants to know why everyone looks upset with him/her. Silly behavior that makes everyone around them uneasy. If I ever act that way, somebody slap me.


I would point out, ExSteelAgain, that people like that may not be Passive Aggressive, they may just have esteem issues.

The Passive Aggressive is the one that walks into the room of happy people and begins to try to convince them all that the emotional issue they have is the result of a misunderstanding they have with the PA person.

Notice I didnt point out that there was any sort of issue prior to the PA person walking into the room.

Basically, a person you talk to or interact with and end up feeling smaller or less capable after your interaction with that person.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:00:09 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		Thank you for sharing Elorin.  It does take a conscious effort on my part to not communicate in a passive aggressive manner.  

I think in my case it's because when I do communicate directly, I've never had a positive result (relationship-wise), so I'm sorta gun-shy about the whole speaking up thing. 


(in reply to Elorin)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:04:33 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

To me the PA person walks into a happy group and immediately wants to know why everyone looks upset with him/her. Silly behavior that makes everyone around them uneasy. If I ever act that way, somebody slap me.


I would point out, ExSteelAgain, that people like that may not be Passive Aggressive, they may just have esteem issues.

The Passive Aggressive is the one that walks into the room of happy people and begins to try to convince them all that the emotional issue they have is the result of a misunderstanding they have with the PA person.

Notice I didnt point out that there was any sort of issue prior to the PA person walking into the room.

Basically, a person you talk to or interact with and end up feeling smaller or less capable after your interaction with that person.

Sinergy


Now, Sinergy, I was perfectly fine with my explanation until you felt that something was wrong with it because of something that I didn't agree with you about. I feel smaller now. What is wrong with you people not getting what I mean? Heh.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:04:51 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel
Thank you for sharing Elorin.  It does take a conscious effort on my part to not communicate in a passive aggressive manner.  
I think in my case it's because when I do communicate directly, I've never had a positive result (relationship-wise), so I'm sorta gun-shy about the whole speaking up thing. 

It's scary to be direct and honest, because it opens you up to rejection and ridicule. Life is so much easier when it's someone else's fault rather than you being vulnerable...
I wish you best of luck in learning to overcome the bad habits. A good counselor can do wonders. I have had a few really good counselors in the past, and I have had some so-so ones that weren't very helpful. Once I have my own car again I intend to find a good therapist again.

~E

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:06:40 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

To me the PA person walks into a happy group and immediately wants to know why everyone looks upset with him/her. Silly behavior that makes everyone around them uneasy. If I ever act that way, somebody slap me.


I would point out, ExSteelAgain, that people like that may not be Passive Aggressive, they may just have esteem issues.

The Passive Aggressive is the one that walks into the room of happy people and begins to try to convince them all that the emotional issue they have is the result of a misunderstanding they have with the PA person.

Notice I didnt point out that there was any sort of issue prior to the PA person walking into the room.

Basically, a person you talk to or interact with and end up feeling smaller or less capable after your interaction with that person.

Sinergy


Now, Sinergy, I was perfectly fine with my explanation until you felt that something was wrong with it because of something that I didn't agree with you about. I feel smaller now. What is wrong with you people not getting what I mean? Heh.


[smartass]

While this is really difficult for both of us, you must realize that the issues we have are the result of a misunderstanding you have about our interaction.

[/smartass]

Point taken.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:09:24 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


While this is really difficult for both of us, you must realize that the issues we have are the result of a misunderstanding you have about our interaction.


I came in here perfectly fine, but I saw you smirk when I posted. It is your attitude. (I think we have this down, pat.)

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:16:39 PM   
SimplySubmissive


Posts: 216
Joined: 1/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have a tendency to act this way. Once I realized it, I was able to stop myself, at least most times. It came from wanting to tell people what they wanted to hear, and then.. well it becomes a cycle.  Saying that everything is fine while slamming doors, etc. It's one thing that this lifestyle has helped, the focus on communication.. not being allowed to walk away, close up, hold things in etc.
It takes work to stop. I remember being quite shocked when someone mentioned that they thought I was passive aggressive.  me??  It still flares up sometimes, mostly when I'm feeling overwhelmed, tired.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:18:21 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


While this is really difficult for both of us, you must realize that the issues we have are the result of a misunderstanding you have about our interaction.


I came in here perfectly fine, but I saw you smirk when I posted. It is your attitude. (I think we have this down, pat.)


[smartass]

You obviously misunderstood my facial twitch caused by a flea to being a smirk.

Is there a registered professional you could go to in order to discuss your issues?

[/smartass]

Sinergy

p.s. As I pointed out to my ex-wife who tried to verbally bait me, I do this sort of thing for a living.  I politely indicated that any interaction of that nature probably would not go her way.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:18:33 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		The Catch-22, if one is submissive, is that to deal with these types, one has to be sometimes anything but "submissive", IMO.

This may be a bad example, but I have an acquaintance that is in the same women's group as me. I've know her for over 15 years, and in many ways, we get along fine.

However, if I happen to look particularly well-dressed, or look extra nice for some reason, at one of these ladies' events, she will wait until most of the others are in the room, and then she will remind me loudly, that I have lipstick on my teeth, or there is a wrinkle in my dress, and it's always, she says: "A shame, because it wrecks the obvious time and effort you put into looking so nice, Suzanne".

My take: She is insecure and jealous. In no way do I "Lord it over" anyone, if I look well put-together for some event. But, I do like to look my best, and see no reason to apologize for that. I didn't realize there was some big competition happening, either.

One time, I just decided I'd had it. So I turned to her, in a room full of people, and just said: "Why Karen, thank you! That makes me feel wonderful, plus I just think it is so kind of you, to notice". 

You could have heard a pin drop. And she hasn't done anything similar to me, since then.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/15/2007 9:39:02 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:21:46 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

The Catch-22, of one is submissive, is thjat to deal with these types one has to be som etimes anything but "submissive". This may be a bad example, but I have an acquaintance that is in the same women's group as me. I've know her for over 15 years, and in many ways, we get along fine. However, if I happen to look particularly well-dressed or fixed up, or nice for some reason at one of these ladies' events, she will wait until most of the others are in  the toom, and then remind me really loudly that I have lipstick on my teeth, or there is a wrinkle in my dress, and it's always "as shame because it wrecks the obvious time and effort I put into looking so nice".

My take: She is insecure and jealous. I in n o way lord it over anyoen if I look well put-together for soe event. But I like to look my best, and see no reason to apologize. i didn't realize there was some big competittion happening, either.

One time, I just decided I'd had it. So I turned to her, in a room full of people, and just said: Why Karen, thank you! That makes me feel wonderful, plus I just think it is kin d of you to notice". 

You coud have heard a pin drop. And she hasn't done anythign simil.ar to me, since them.

- Susan


Not sure this will be helpful, but what I teach kids to do is to take negative statements from people directed at them and throw then in (we pantomime this) their trash can.  As opposed to being pierced by words that hurt.

It cracks me up to see the deflated mein of a cretin trying to insult me when I eagerly take the mantle of their insult as my personal savior.

People are too funny.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:24:17 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		Am I gonna hafta put the two of you in a timeout in my thread? 

<---------- Steel  - over there.                Sinergy - over there ------------>
                      


(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:25:10 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Sinergy: Good advice, and thank you. I wil try that.

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:26:39 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Am I gonna hafta put the two of you in a timeout in my thread? 

<---------- Steel  - over there.                Sinergy - over there ------------>
                     




[passive aggressive]

Why does he get the cool side?

[/passive aggressive]

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:27:50 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Sinergy: Good advice, and thank you. I wil try that.

- Susan 


Glad I could be of assistance, SusanofO.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/15/2007 9:30:54 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Many times, as you say, I'd get madder about it, but it comes usually from such a pathetic place, IMO, that I don't wanna waste my energy tit-for-tatting w/them. It was just this one person (although there have occasionally been others)- and I agree totallly w/what you said, as far as dealing w/them, Sinergy.
 
GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out), IMIO, as far as where I think it sometmes (if not most of the time) comes from, with these folks. Although maybe, they just need to learn how to risk being more direct, along w/whatever other issues, they've got.

Like LA insinuated, we all have some issues. I just think these folks bank on the fact you're maybe not gonna do much to confront them. And if they are really, IMO, being down-right mean, I do call them on it sometimes, now. My basic reasoning here, is that their insecurities have no business polluting my atmosphere.

Of course if it is someone you live with, you really have to "pick you battles" carefully, IMO, if you want the atmosphere to remain anywhere near peaceful and not tension-filled. Plus, decide if you want to spend your energy there. It's a judgment call then, IMO.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/15/2007 9:48:37 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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