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ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

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ORIGINAL: Celeste43

It doesn't sound like you've been speaking plain enough to him.

If he continues doing this for the next year, where do you think you will be then? Do you think you will withdraw from him totally? Stop responding to him, stop caring about him, stop believing that he cares for you? Because if you're on the road to any of that, then you are on the road out of the relationship. It seems obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing here or just doesn't care. Ask him point blank which it is and then make your decision from that.

I am fairly sure i explained it thoroughly to him. I do not want to nag him, i do not want to feel like he is being put into a corner where he has to do something. I want him to want to do something. If he does not want to do anything then at least stop poking.
 
I have rationalized this, attempted to come up with reasons this cycle keeps getting repeated, anymore though i just want it to stop.
 
And you are right, i have had to keep my distance off and on for a long time now but before i always got back to normal. This time it seems like it has been going on forever, and i really do not understand why. He says he loves me, i believe him but more and more i am questioning this. How can he love me and not see what is happening here?
 
I can't find normal anymore and i question daily if he cares at all. And yes, it is already destroying the relationship, yet i have kept looking for answers to this. Problem is i don't trust myself anymore either.

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ORIGINAL: Celeste43

The solution is to say to him that this is a hard limit from now on. Either that or walk, his choice. I had to hard limit denial early on because my response to it was to stop sleeping. And sleep deprivation is not safe. It increases majorly risk of car accidents and makes me a cranky, unhappy person to be with.

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ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

I only made this post because it is to the point where i can't deal with it any more. I feel like i am on a roller coaster ride all the time.

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I am in tears immediately and have gotten to the point where i stay depressed.

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No depression does not run in my family, nor do i normally get depressed about much.

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I think it is the up and down chemical soup combined with my fear of what keeps happening to me that is keeping me depressed. I want him but it just is not safe anymore to let myself want him, yet when he is close i cannot stop it.

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ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Me? I'd rather end it early enough that I won't be left depressed afterwards. Because eventually this situationally caused depression will turn into the real thing, if it hasn't already. And one side effect of antidepressants is decreased libido.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave would conclude that He is doing as He pleases...just because He is well aware of this slave's mental/emotional state about a particular thing, doesn't mean this slave expects Him to change His behavior...especially if He enjoys it.

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

One of the chemicals released during orgasm and sexual stimulation is prolactin.  Prolactin is the hormone that stimulates lactation. The major effect of increased prolactin is a decrease in normal levels of sex hormones — estrogen in women and testosterone in men – and the effects of sudden changes to those two hormones are pretty wide known.

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Not entirely correct.

Yes, prolactin reduces oestrogen synthesis in the ovaries. But oestrogen increases the prolactin release, so this system is in homeostatic balance. You won't throw it off a lot without noticing tons of other effects, like amenorrhea.

The main effect of prolactin, in a mental health perspective, is decreasing testosterone in both genders. Remember that testosterone is not an exclusively male sex hormone, but also a very important one for women as well. Further, prolactin has a weak inhibiting effect on central dopamine levels.

Also, AFAIK, prolactin is released during orgasm, not arousal. If it were released to any significant extent during arousal, you would be unable to achieve orgasm.

I'd point at PEA (phenylethylamine) as a more likely culprit. Its levels are raised during arousal, and it works pretty much the same as amphetamine, but specific to the dopamine receptors, and with a halflife of 0.5-15 minutes, it gives the same come-down as amphetamines do. Selegiline/Emsam and unselective MAOIs extend this half-life quite significantly.

A quick point about PEA is that it causes pupil dilation, so that might be a good non-invasive test.

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This can cause tiredness and bouts of depression. It represses dopamine which is important to the whole survival instinct. Ie - it fucks with the whole eat/sleep/reproduce/flight or fight responses causing confusion and depression or disinterest.

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Reduced dopamine levels will cause impaired motivation, emotional flatness, etc., and is involved in certain subtypes of depression, specifically those responsive to MAOIs, NARIs and DARIs. Eating and sleeping are mediated by other systems. Fight-or-flight is fairly exclusively mediated by norepinephrine. Confusion is a strong sign of excessive dopamine levels, while complete brain fog is a weak sign of low dopamine. Depression and disinterest, however, are correct. No idea about reproduction, though I expect it to be positively correlated with dopamine and oxytocin, as well as the ovulatory cycle.

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Its suggested that the sudden flooding of different hormones and chemicals can send the brain into confusion.

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Perhaps. Said confusion is usually called a "high", however, which only corresponds to the positive part of her experience, but that's another matter. Note also that our brains are meant for this kind of flooding. They just aren't meant to shut down so quickly.

More relevant is the pulsatile stimulation of dopaminergic receptors, potentially causing adaptive changes. A partial agonist might solve that problem, but it's not a solution to the situation itself.

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In men, if they have high releases of prolactin, it can cause them to be subdued and back off (which Scooter may be doing - so it isnt always a 'blame the D-type' matter because he can't control the medical side in this instance) or even fall asleep immediately after orgasm.

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The main effect of prolactin on men is that it causes an orgasm refractory period, although the fatigue might be related. Even a short burst of prolactin will affect your testosterone, although most men won't see long-term changes from that. Overbalancing this system, however, can put it into negative feedback. That takes a lot, though.

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In a stable relationship that has had a routine, the dopamine adapts and learns when to ‘reward’ your own particular system  - and if that doesn’t happen or suddenly changes it takes time for the release of the dopamine to react.

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Actually, stable relationships are more about oxytocin, which mediates trust and bonding.

Dopamine fires whenever there are major changes in the neurohormonal balance or neurotransmitter activity, which focuses attention on the situation that caused it. An evolutionary adaptation for imprinting important situations. It has nothing to do with reward in itself, as it fires strongly during negative stimuli as well. Rather, it has to do with the impact and the learning of responses (habituation and motivation), etc.

Firing speed doesn't usually change, IIRC, nor would it significantly matter, as clearly demonstrated by the myriad drugs that affect the time-domain of the impulse.

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So it means (in twice case on a hormone level) your body falls into a state of confusion – hence the whole up and down of sub space or drop.  One minute you can be laughing, the next in tears – or in tears when you are laughing – or enjoying sensations or hating them.  Because the body isn’t sure whether to reward or run away.

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What she is describing, is a sustained impact on her mood, and a withdrawal from her Dom.

This is not consistent with sub drop.

It's consistent with trauma.

Sorry for such a long-winded explanation.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

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And you are right, i have had to keep my distance off and on for a long time now but before i always got back to normal. This time it seems like it has been going on forever, and i really do not understand why. He says he loves me, i believe him but more and more i am questioning this. How can he love me and not see what is happening here?
 
I can't find normal anymore and i question daily if he cares at all. And yes, it is already destroying the relationship, yet i have kept looking for answers to this. Problem is i don't trust myself anymore either.

Being hard isn't a factor, but a mood swing out of character is.  So, if Scooters reaction is to laugh, it could be his body is simply confused.

You say he feels bad when you explain and then does it again.

Dopamine is responsible for the feel good factor your body gets - for example a trigger can be chocolate or coffee, and people gain gratification from consuming these.

In the same way the dopamine may be 'confused' into causing Scooter to laugh.

In the same breath, your levels are being constantly compromised and switched around causing you to feel depressed, anxious, confused and unloved.  It could be causing the opposite in you and not rewarding, where it did before.

(edit to add - I just read what I wrote and I am not sure if it makes a correct statement.  It's the lack of dopamine thats causing the confusing to your brain.... not the dopamine itself, due to the prolactin that is released.  Dopamine is a pleasure giver above all else... and to have it dulled can cause confusion between what is pleasure/pain.  Geez I hope I am making some kind of sense)

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ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

I've thought about doing both, the problem is he is so perfect for me and to me.  I am so in love i find it incomprehensible to lose him but i know that is what is coming.

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As for sleep, my RA already makes it hard to sleep, now i am awake for days then fall into a restless sleep of the dead for hours.

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I was beginning to write something like this, since in my particular case, my Master is not going to change what he enjoys doing with me and it is up to me to figure out how to deal with that.

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I am not a doctor, I only get my info from one.

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Yes, I am aware that dopamine isnt the only thing to mention - I didnt get into oxytocin, because the thread is evolving too quickly and I felt that it would only confuse the issue.

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Subdrop occurs for all types of reasons.  I never infered it was the only reason, just a possible one. (since D asked me about a previous thread).

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The pupil dilation is a good indicator - but then that could again mean any number of things.  Yikes it gets complicated.

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ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x
Here is the problem, lately he takes me to the screaming point then drops me cold, no release. Ok, a few weeks of this can be fun, truthfully I love it, but it has been going on since February.

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What I want to know is am I experiencing some weird form of sub drop? Can you experience sub drop because your body instantly revs up for “Master” and then boom, nothing?[/ quote]
My guess is that in addition to the chemical reactions others have described in this thread, you are experiencing an emotional conditioning that says "If he turns me on he has no intentions of fulfilling me or giving me an orgasm. That hurts, and I don't like it. To prevent the hurt, I am going to withdraw and try not to be so turned on." And it sounds like Scooter doesn't like the withdrawal, and either doesn't realize or doesn't care that he is the one causing it.

From a later post:

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I've thought about doing both [setting a hard limit or walking away], the problem is he is so perfect for me and to me.  I am so in love i find it incomprehensible to lose him but i know that is what is coming.

Setting hard limits do not mean you are not in love, they do not mean you have to lose someone. I realize that at least two slaves in this thread posted that just because they don't like something doesn't mean they expect master to change it. While that is a great relationship dynamic for them, it would ~never~ work for me. A good relationship is one where both people have their needs met. Right now, you NEED to stop tease and denial. It is fucking you up mentally, emotionally, and from what you said about lack of sleep, physically as well. Since you mention an RA (resident assistant, I'm assuming, or dorm "supervisor" basically) I'm assuming you are at college, which means his behavior is not only fucking with you, it's fucking with your education.
You have the right to say "I have needs. If this relationship is not meeting my needs, then the relationship needs to change or I need to end it." That is what limits are for. They are for making clear what you can and cannot handle.

You said i cannot believe my gentle natured Scooter would wreak such havoc on purpose. Sweetie, I hope you are right. I also hope that he is not doing it from apathy, because he just doesn't care what affect he has on you. Either way, you can't go based on your belief. You have to speak directly to him, ask him "Do you realize how this is affecting me mentally, emotionally, physically? Do you care? Are you doing it intentiontionally? Is this a matter where you simply enjoy it so much that you don't care about the consequences to me?" Then based on his responses you need to make your choice.

I would not recommend being miserable until it ends in an ugly way. Standing up now and saying "This is bad for me it needs to stop." either means he understands and changes, and your relationship has a chance of a future, or that it ends now. Either way it cuts out the months of misery in between now and when the relationship might change/end, and THAT is a very good thing.

Best of luck to you, your health, and your relationship.

~E

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)