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RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 7:17:07 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Thank you LaT, you are so right. Often times here we are little more than a flock of circling vultures not taking the time to consider the people and the pain involved. All we see is that someone is down and we jump right in there to get our chance at stripping away some of the meat. My heart goes out right now to all involved, they are my friends and some of the most honorable and decent people I have ever encountered in this lifestyle. That knowledge of them is the thing that gives me comfort at this time because I know that, while there may be some troubling issues that are on the surface right now, they, as twice so aptly put it, love each other crazy. They will come through this and their relationship will grow as a result.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 61

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 7:21:08 AM

Elorin

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

After reading your post, LaTigresse, I understand your dismay. I did go back and re-read my original post, and I stand by it. But jumping to conclusions based on one person's side of the story is something that can hurt a lot of people.

Thankfully it sounds like there is a strong relationship to work with. Unfortunately it sounds like twice thought she was making things clear, but things were not being made clear on the other side. Hopefully it works out for the best.

~E

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 62

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 7:42:24 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Personally, I was absolutely devastated when I read this thread yesterday morning. I never heard a word about it until that moment. I cried, I'm still crying over it. I feel very cheated. Him and I both have been trying to figure out what's wrong with no input at all, I have seen him ask repeatedly what was wrong and all we got was pushed away. Instead of answers we got accusations. Yes, the communication level in this house needs to be improved upon. Hopefully now she'll read this and understand that. I've told Scooter about this thread and I don't want him to be as hurt by it as I was, and he would be. Some of you people think about that for a bit, then put yourself in our shoes and you'll understand why you won't be hearing from me for a very long time, if ever again. For once you truly get to see both sides of the story.

When Scooter reads his email .. this will explain more of my thoughts....

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. I hope you put little stock in the narrow minded comments that was stated in this thread. There is a few that stayed out of the drama generated and avoided jumping on this band wagon. There is a few that see to much manipulation and drama contained within this thread for it to be useful for any constructive dialogue to address the issue.

I can only imagine the emotions you are going thru. It is embarassing, hurtful and a betrayal of trust for someone close to take a personal issue and air dirty laundry to those of no consequence to yourselves.

Often we see individuals come to the boards and post an OP that is laced with drama and issues of a personal nature. On occassions, this person is in a very unhealthy situation. But, mostly I have found that there is always another side to the story and the OP's are more of a drama and manipulative issue to gain support for their particular point of view than to solve their issue.

Jewel, I realize that it was a lot of negative emotions reading this thread, but I do encourage that Scooter reads it as well. As much as you wish to protect him from this .. He also needs to help you deal with the emotions that you feel because of this thread. In fact, you both are going to need the support of each other. You have some difficult moments ahead which will be made easier if you both share the same road, same perspective of what is been said or not said.

From the perspective of a Dominant... I appreciate the intensity of the emotions you must be feeling. I personally wish you and Scooter the best during this moment of difficulty. May you both find the strength and wisdom to walk through this mindfield.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 4/21/2007 7:52:01 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 63

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 8:22:01 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Fast Reply.....

I just hope that we can all keep in mind that there are three people involved here who are in pain.....and that no one person's pain is more important than another.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 64

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 8:25:04 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Had this thread been started by, and about, individuals I knew nothing about, I would have had a very different initial reaction. I would have been quick to jump to a conclusion and perhaps been inclined to spout off some "words of wisdom" (questionable on the wisdom) and also as quick to defend my point of view.

Loved your entire post but your words inspired me to finally write some thoughts I had been mulling for weeks. So as not to hijack this thread, I create a new one: http://www.collarchat.com/m_970261/tm.htm.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 65

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 9:44:30 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

I've been following this thread and holding back from commenting since while I don't know them personally I have gotten to know them in a sense from reading their posts over time. What jumped out at me was a lot of pain from the OP and Jewel. Jewel's comments of

quote:

I have seen him ask repeatedly what was wrong and all we got was pushed away. Instead of answers we got accusations.

hit me and got me remembering times past in my life.

I have been in mental and emotional pain that affected me to the point that I could not communicate it clearly to those who asked what was wrong. I could only react with accusations and pushing away. I had to get to the point where I could partially put the pain in a box and discuss what the issue was. I actually had to be sat down and basically told that I wasn't getting up until I could talk and at least somewhat explain what was troubling me so badly. It was very hard to do, but for me it helped and opened the way to getting it dealt with on all sides.

I wish the 3 of you the best in this. The caring and love that's come across in all your posts over all this time leads me to firmly believe that this will be resolved for all of you. Take care.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 66

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 9:56:23 AM

softpjOS

Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline

Communication. Wonderful advice, sounds simple enough but sometimes it simply doesn't work.

Once upon a time (ok,it happens more often then I wish to think about) I was frustrated, hurt and yes angry with my Mistress. I felt I had tried to talk to Her about something that was bothering me and She simply ignored what I was saying, when in fact She heard everything I had said, She simply did not grasp how truly upset I was about it. Why? Because there was a vital piece missing for effective communication....understanding.

At one point, I was so frustrated because She did not seem to care how I was feeling that I posted a message on a message board we were both a part of, seeking advice on what to do. Sir Jay, if You are a member here...thank You again for Your words.

Communication is only effective when both parties are on the same page. If one plays down the effects something is having, how can the other be held responsible for the final out come? Just because I say something upsets me doesn't mean She is going to interpret it as being a problem. This goes both ways. If She sees me as withdrawn or upset, accepting my answer of "I'm fine" and dropping the matter doesn't change or fix anything. Emotions do tend to get in the way of clear communication and as such Mistress and I struggled to come up with a way for me to feel comfortable in presenting topics to Her in a way that allowed me to express my feelings openly without feeling that I was being disrespectful or compromising Her authority over me.

Jewel and Scooter, Mistress had the same reaction to my post. Hurt and angry because I took our personal problem "public". She felt I betrayed Her trust by not coming to Her first when in fact I had, many times. But. When I did bring it up to Her, I did not want to cause problems or upset Her so I down played it which only served to make the problem much much worse because I felt hurt that it continued even after I tried to tell Her how I felt. I posted out of confusion, hurt and desperation to fix a relationship that meant the world to me, not to publicly bash nor embarass Her. A big hug to You both.

Twice....Been there done that. No, you can't take back the post but you can learn from it. Understand that people reply to what they interpret your words as meaning and not necessarily to you or your relationship. Understand that both Scooter and Jewel need time to digest what they've read and be willing to listen with an open mind to what they say. Don't let this be a focus of your life or it will consume you. Focus on your relationship and building communication skills that allow you to express yourself more completely. If saying something one way doesn't seem to work, don't be afraid to revisit the conversation over and over until clear understanding is achieved. If you need someone to bounce ideas off of, feel free to bounce them my way. Chances are ...been there...done that! lol

A big hug to all of you. This too shall pass

pj

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 67

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 10:08:00 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

I know very little about your relationship though you seem very in love from all the posts I have read of yours. So what I dont get is if your unhappy with this and so is he then why not change it.. why doesnt he stop teasing you like that.. if it is not on perpose then you need to have a long talk and see what needs to change or what needs to be looked for to fix this. And if it is on perpose and neather of you are happy why doesnt he just stop... sorry it just confuses me thats all.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 68

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 11:06:36 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
And I wonder how someone can be so perfect when they don't care about deliberately destroying someone's love, trust and mental stability.

Forgive me but.......you don't know the people involved and that comment is far, far from truth.

Absolutely right but my response was based on what the op said. She said she had repeatedly communicated this to him and had him ignore her. My comment was based on the information she provided.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 69

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 11:31:19 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

One of these days, he'll take you to the point of screaming, and instead of stopping cold he will keep stimulating you expecting you to orgasm, only to find instead that you collapse into a heap of wracking sobs because you have been so conditioned to the interupption technique that you can't cum any more.

It sounds to Me as though this condition is what he's after.

In my opinion, trying to push a sub to orgasmic frigidity by using such denial/interruption techniques is unethical, but it is certainly evil and sadistic. Therein lies it's allure to your Dom.

It's up to you to determine whether you will let him continue to push you to that point and potentially permanently damage your orgasmic response, or not.

TexasMaam

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 70

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 12:24:33 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Frankly I think those of who know The Threesome here can also be pretty confident that they will ignore the knee-jerk responses or the ones which won't have merit. So it's not really an issue at all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 71

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 12:53:02 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout

If you've expressed yourself as to how terribly this is affecting you, that it's wreaking havoc with trust and the comfort you used to feel in his arms, and he's still not interested in addressing the issue? Did he ever respond to you when you explained your feelings? What did he say, or did he side-step or ignore what you were saying?

Well the last time he felt bad but it has not stopped him from doing it over and over. Like i said, Scooter is fairly new at this and i don't think he understands.

He did however side step by telling me he just did not feel like doing anything because of the way i keep withdrawing. Maybe that is true, but at this point i feel like i cannot pull myself back to normal anymore. I feel like with drawing is all i can do. And yet when he pushes me there he is obviously getting a response, he smiles, laughs and walks away.

A few weeks ago he did it so fast i fell on the bathroom floor. He did pick me up, then i took care of him, i got off during the course of that but still felt really let down, emotionally exhausted.

What a rotten cycle to get in....an endless ring of tentative touch, then more sure touch....then the mind kicks in and tells you that she is going to withdraw, so you go no further....then she is upset that it went no further and left her high/anxious/revved up and no release...so she withdraws further so he won't touch...then softens after awhile...and the cycle starts again.

Truly sorry for you 2x...and my answer is the same as many...communicate and communicate and communicate.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 72

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 2:14:26 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

To LA, Mistoferin, Latigress, Dark, Maamjay, Riotgirl, and all the others who showed support and confidence in our relationship i want to say thank you all so much. To all the others who came through with information on the biological chemical reactions involved, i thank you as well. To SweetSarijane and softpjos thank you for sharing stories of similar problems, it helps.

To Shiftedjewel, sorry if you feel embarrassed or ashamed or that you feel you cannot post.

Was there a better way to handle this, probably, did i see a better way at that point in time, no. I felt like i either had to have feedback for myself and to offer him from parties not in the household. Occasional it takes someone not personally involved to shed light on a problem.

I feel like i did explain the issue, and i thought it was not being recognized for the issue it was. He just did not understand. Some of that blame lays with me, it is very hard to tell your Master, whom you love so dearly, whom you hold in such shining light, somethings.

The other problem may be that i forget that Scooter is fairly new to this, i am his first collared slave, though he has had subs before.

You see he feels so right, so natural i often forget that he is not the one gone before. So i often expect him to grasp the same things the same way, and that is my fault. The way he holds me feels like i have been in his arms forever and so i forget.

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 73

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 2:32:53 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

(((hugs 2x))

Hon we are all human we all make mistakes.. and no one can read minds and that is why communication is so importent... I can tell the 3 of you love eachother and now that this has all come to light I know that you all will do whatever it takes to fix things, bringing it up is the hard part and now that it has been done hopefully a solution can be found without to much fuss and frustration, its sad that feelings have been hurt but hopefully what you take from this will be posative. I wish the 3 of you all the luck in the world and I do hope none of you deside you need to leave here.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)

Post #: 74

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 2:34:45 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

The reason I pointed out the sexual dysfunction side effects of the SSRI's is that if she goes on them, then he won't be able to do this to her, he won't get any arousal out of her.

Actually, even the SSRIs aren't that bad, nor is that effect anything reliable. Libido is often, but not always, reduced, but not eliminated.

quote:

And I wonder how someone can be so perfect when they don't care about deliberately destroying someone's love, trust and mental stability.

Apparently, there was just a misunderstanding. Her motor seems to get revving from something along thelines of a simple pinch, and she drops from this, while he has apparently thought her complaint was related to play, not these minor attentions throughout the day.

In that case, something to lower libido might not be such a bad idea.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 75

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 2:42:10 PM

simplyangelic1

Posts: 186
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline

Twicehappy,
I am sorry for the pain that you and your family are going through at this time. I do understand completely why sometimes it can be easier to turn here than to those closest to us. Especially after you felt like you had made your feelings plain. After reading Jewel's post, it does seem that you forgot that you had another resource available to you. It's an easy mistake to make. I sincerely hope that you all can work this out and grow as a family. It is obvious to me that despite this bump in the road, there is a lot of love there. Just remember that communication with all parties involved is so very important. Because what affects one, affects all in the relationship.

angel

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 76

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 2:58:54 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I was upset at the negative feedback because it just didn't fit with what I knew. [...] Jewel's post just made me want to cry at the pain I am sure all three people, people I have come to like and care about, are feeling. Knowing that their home is probably suffering at this very moment.

Sorry for any distress I may have caused you and/or the other people here who know them personally. As I explained, I don't yet, so I made what seemed to be a reasonable assumption. Fortunately, it turned out to be mistaken.

I certainly agree with Jewel that the ideal thing in such a situation would have been to talk to the people that knows the parties involved. Having been in some situations that were driving me up the wall in a similar way, though, I can sympathize with how this might not be clear to the one in the situation.

quote:

I now wonder, how often someone writes here with similar distress, giving a distorted point of view, and then getting feedback that is incorrect because of that distortion.

Quite a few, I would imagine. I've been on threads before where I realized my feedback had been entirely inappropriate, once the proper details were supplied. Everyone that's been online for a length of time will know that such is the nature of online communication, due to lack of body language, intonation and some variation in the use of terminology.

That's why I usually try to assume good faith on behalf of the poster, although in this case I did not properly consider the possibility that her definition of "clearly explained" was not clear to her Dom/Master.

quote:

Soooo, I am thinking that to assume what we perceive when we read something is dead on, is a big mistake. On the flip side, for anyone getting the feedback to take it as gospel, or to take it personally and get upset, an even bigger mistake.

Sometimes, assuming that the post is off may be seriously offensive to the person posting, and people are rarely interested in stopping to sync up on what is going on before debating it. So, yeah, taking feedback as gospel is a mistake, and one should always try to assume the other party has misunderstood something, or intended things differently from how it was perceived, if one feels offended.

quote:

This leads me to think that my personal style of keeping my private life private, not bringing my shit online for mass consumption, is not a bad idea.

I usually do this, but mostly to limit identifiability, given that I'm involved in several things where it could seriously compromise my credibility and perceived reliability if the other parties knew what I was doing on my spare time. The people who could identify me based on what I've said online so far, or from the appearance I sported at the time I took my user picture, already know this side of my life.

quote:

I hope my Saturday morning brain ramblings make some sort of sense to anyone that cares to read them.

They do, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has thought along these lines.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 77

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 3:04:58 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

i think part of the issue comes from the simple truth that truth is what he said, what she said, and what really happened. we all color our perspective about whats going on simply by viewing the event from a different vantage point.

"Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth."

quote:

its harder because my vanilla husband wont talk to me about certain things, i have neurological issues that cause me to either forget the words i need, or simply forget to say anything whatsoever, and DaddySir has to be on me constantly to tell him whats rattling around in my head trying to smash the pea. *smiles depreciatingly*

People who are only in vanilla relationships don't tend to be as aware of the need for clear, detailed in-depth communication and hard work on relationship maintenance. I think this is why so many vanilla relationships fail so quickly. My sample size may be limited, but from the people I know, the vanilla relationships work less and fail sooner.

quote:

itten, who knows damned well she's a difficult handful at times.

Aren't we all?

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 78

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 3:15:28 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

It sounds to Me as though this condition is what he's after.

It never sounded like that to me, and I did have my hackles a bit up while reading (due to a history of depression, without which one cannot know what that's like).

quote:

In my opinion, trying to push a sub to orgasmic frigidity by using such denial/interruption techniques is unethical, but it is certainly evil and sadistic.

Even if that had been his intention, which it obviously (by the later posts in the thread) isn't, there would be nothing unethical about it as long as consent has been given. "Evil" is a rather vague concept that every person has a different idea of, so it has no real applicability. Sadism is a valid element of the lifestyle.

quote:

Therein lies it's allure to your Dom.

My perception, before reading the more recent posts, was that it was an impulse control issue or lack of awareness, not intentional (although I mentioned the possibility).

Turns out it was miscommunication.

quote:

It's up to you to determine whether you will let him continue to push you to that point and potentially permanently damage your orgasmic response, or not.

Why would that be such a serious thing? Both men and women can do without. Anyway, such "damage" is nearly universally reversible.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to TexasMaam)

Post #: 79

RE: Anti sub drop? - 4/21/2007 5:56:11 PM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

It seems to be an issue, if the OP is moved to post in pain and frustration.
I know a lot of people on a personal level, but don't know anything at all about their private sex lives - knowing them on a personal level doesn't diminish the pain that motivates this kind of post.

Mine is hardly a knee jerk reaction, LuckyAlbatross, why, I'm surprised at you.

Mine is a response of concern.

TM

_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 80

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