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ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

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ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor
I'm personally under the impression that physical punishment should only be ok when agreed upon by both parties in the relationship.  Mainly I think this because to do otherwise makes far to much of a chance for an abusive person to say that he's beating up his woman because he's her Dom.
And of course, if you know that your submissive is ok with it(and most submissives I have had preferred the occasional punishment because they enjoyed the pain and the play that the action represented.

Well, I have never seen corporal punishment as a viable option in any situation (except with VERY young UMs, where telling them: "No!" and then, a light smack on the hand teaches them what the word means) so, I don't advocate the beatings, etc. but, let's go with that, for a moment ...
 
If I thought that my submissive needed some physical punishment, I should "check with her to make sure it's okay"? Should we ask criminals if they agree with their sentences? Should we ask our children if grounding them for a weekend is too long?
 
Once again, in my mind, we're left with an inconsistancy, here.
 
Let's remove the idea of corporal punishment and "go at it", from there.
 
If I decide that my submissive has failed to wash the dishes for the umpteenth time. I might decide that she can no longer use a dish to eat her food (I doubt it but, I'm working on the fly, here). I don't care if she agrees to that punishment or not. As with all things, in this lifestyle, she has a three-pronged choice:
 

1. "Yes, Michael Sir"
   
2. "Can we talk about this, please?"
   
3. "I can't serve you, anymore, Sir."

That's it. I couldn't possibly care less if she thinks I'm being "fair".
 
I am NOT going to manage my beliefs on what's right and wrong based upon what someone who has, supposedly, put her care into my hands thinks is fair or not. She'll do as she's supposed to or, she'll be punished. If she doesn't like the punishment, she knows where the door is.
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
Michael

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ORIGINAL: pleasingpj

Yes, i agree with the original post by Aslanemperor...Sometimes things are over analysed. The Old Testament is the foundation for the New Testament. Things that happened in the Old Testament are still being preached about today and they are used to provide guidance in our daily lives ,even today. So, just because the slavery back then was not consentual does not mean that the practice cannot be applied to our lives today. What God wants is for us to have no other GOD before him. This is the key. We must put God first in all things. God would have first place in the life of my Master and i and i would serve my Master second. It is the natural order of things. This is my two cents worth.........

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ORIGINAL: pleasingpj

Yes, i agree with the original post by Aslanemperor...Sometimes things are over analysed. The Old Testament is the foundation for the New Testament. Things that happened in the Old Testament are still being preached about today and they are used to provide guidance in our daily lives ,even today. So, just because the slavery back then was not consentual does not mean that the practice cannot be applied to our lives today. What God wants is for us to have no other GOD before him. This is the key. We must put God first in all things. God would have first place in the life of my Master and i and i would serve my Master second. It is the natural order of things. This is my two cents worth.........

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I love how christians try and find justification for what they do when it's something that really matters to them.  They don't care about the having sex before marriage because most people keep quiet about that these days.  But the kink?  Well we've got to find a way to make that OK.

I don't believe this is an example of finding justification. The Bible does allow and advocate sexual slavery. People who are religious try to follow the laws of their religion. There is nothing wrong with that. For BDSM Christians who are not familiar with this part of the Bible (frequently hidden by our priests and pastors) this can be troublesome.

As a Christian, sometimes I have a problem with the fact that I am having sex before marriage. It is something I have to reconcile with my faith, and I take comfort in the fact that if that is enough to send me to Hell, despite the good works that I have done, my charity work and my sharing of the faith with those who are interested, not to mention my genuine belief in Jesus Christ, then there really wasn't much else I could have done.

This would be like a bacon-loving Jewish person finding a little read part of the Torah that allows them to eat pigs. It's not justifying anything. It's saying loudly and clearly that "Hey, this is allowed by the laws of your religion!" It's just nice to know.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I love how christians try and find justification for what they do when it's something that really matters to them.  They don't care about the having sex before marriage because most people keep quiet about that these days.  But the kink?  Well we've got to find a way to make that OK.

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ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor
Once again, I'm not talking about randomly beating her, and also I'm not talking about asking permission before punishing once she's done something wrong.
I'll give an example.  I had a slave named Alicia.  We understood upon the first instance what was acceptable punishment and what was not.  Alicia didn't complain if I took a switch to her, anymore then when I ordered her confined to her room, or anymore then when I didn't allow her sexual satisfaction in punishment.

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ORIGINAL: Aslanemperor
Sometimes, she would do things she knew I would whip her for, just because she wanted me to whip her, and admitted as much afterwords.  This is the kind of instance I'm talking about.

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ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I'd like a reference for 'scriptures which say that it's ok for a man to sleep with his slave without marrying her because she is his property.'

It must be right beside those verses that talk about stoning unwed mothers and burn homosexuals alive?

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Me tooo.  I was on a few yahoo boards back 3 or so years ago and one was VERY strict and Biblical. 
There was an argument on several boards about men OWNING a woman.  There is a verse...but I cant remember it....I suppose our 23 yr old theologian knows?

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ORIGINAL: junecleaver

I'd like a reference for 'scriptures which say that it's ok for a man to sleep with his slave without marrying her because she is his property.'

It must be right beside those verses that talk about stoning unwed mothers and burn homosexuals alive?

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I love how christians try and find justification for what they do when it's something that really matters to them.  They don't care about the having sex before marriage because most people keep quiet about that these days.  But the kink?  Well we've got to find a way to make that OK.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail
insofar as passages burning homosexuals alive (i assume sodom and gamorrah) there was not such reason -- it was e pluribus unum there

Why's it always gotta be all about the homo's?)  ......... luci

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ORIGINAL: junecleaver
Yeah, because sending Hagar out into the desert was really taking care of her

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ORIGINAL: slaveluci

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ORIGINAL: junecleaver
Yeah, because sending Hagar out into the desert was really taking care of her

Just an observation but, according to Scripture, God didn't initiate or condone the banishment of Hagar into the desert.  This was a human decision much as her having Ishamel in the first place was.  There are lots of stories told in the Scriptures about man's folly when they did things like this that they were not instructed to do by God.  Just because the Bible tells of someone doing it, doesn't mean it was the right thing for them to do.....luci