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RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:18:20 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Based upon what Padriag has said, which I absolutely agree with, and what many submissives have said, one could almost then assume that a sub/slave is more "me" focused and wants a dominant to be more focused on their sub/slave than themself and their own needs. In this light one would almost wonder who serves whom.

All in all I am fascinated by this thread and the posts. I have always been a huge fan of people watching. It's amazing what can be learned by a little observation.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/23/2007 6:19:35 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:35:47 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i think you're implying a totally different thing - Daddy does know me better than anyone i've ever came into contact ...including my own parents.  i don't need to focus on His needs (and yes they are being met before you jump all over that statement) per se because we are attuned like soulmates - we enjoy the same music, tastes and interests within and/or out BDSM however there are some things Daddy will know before i can even tell him.  i don't see it as Him being focused on me all the time 24/7 but as knowing what will be right for me as His submissive-daughter like choosing the right type of man to meet and date.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:42:08 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		i paused to reflect on a question that this thread brings to my mind.....i said, "Candy, how well do you know your own self?" and i really had to think about that for a second ...i think i know my self better now, because i am more willing to listen to my self now. when i was younger i was too busy to bother with myself LOL......... i know some stuff about myself but still have much to figure out. self discovery is an awsome journey....letting someone accompany you on it, is just mind blowing....

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:42:14 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Based upon what Padriag has said, which I absolutely agree with, and what many submissives have said, one could almost then assume that a sub/slave is more "me" focused and wants a dominant to be more focused on their sub/slave than themself and their own needs. In this light one would almost wonder who serves whom.


you do realize that more than a few "me" submissives are going to be insulted that you are calling them "me" submissives

editted to add...

I think your comments raise a valid point and something worth considering.  Thanks for the mental food.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 4/23/2007 6:44:54 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:48:28 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I was using fast reply and not directing my post at anyone in particular. I don't know the specific nature of your relationship or for that matter anyone else on the forums to make the assumption that my observation fits their specific situation.

All I have to go by is what I see in the people I have observed personally.

And yes, KoM, I pretty much expected it. It's usually the way it works. Another one of my grandmothers sayings seems to fit "methinks thou protesteth too much"


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 6:59:53 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And yes, KoM, I pretty much expected it. It's usually the way it works. Another one of my grandmothers sayings seems to fit "methinks thou protesteth too much"



nods...

another thought that just came up in discussion with kyra and myself.   For some... who project this "All Knowing Master" BS... one has to wonder if their is not some motivating factor of dumping their responsibilities of self. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:08:29 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Another one of my grandmothers sayings seems to fit "methinks thou protesteth too much"



Your grandmother is Queen Gertrude? Cool.

I think the notion that each person can know him or herself better than anyone else is obviously true in a number of narrow and mostly trivial ways. I think the notion is highly suspect if the scope is more broad. Highly suspect and very often plain wrong.



< Message edited by Noah -- 4/23/2007 7:10:10 PM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:13:38 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		KoM, that is kind of along the line of where my brain was wandering also.

Noah, you never knew I was decended from royalty?!?! Wrong side of the blanket and thrice removed. Actually my grandma's name was Mabel and she was a rather unsual farm wife. She just always seemed to come up with some old saying that was appropriate for every situation. They seemed to have stuck with me.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:15:26 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

KoM, that is kind of along the line of where my brain was wandering also.



Cool... our minds are compatiable... lets hit the sheets  *w*

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:28:19 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

KoM, that is kind of along the line of where my brain was wandering also.



Cool... our minds are compatiable... lets hit the sheets  *w*


Wooohoooooooo, let me get the bitches (two large, 4 legged princesses currently taking up 3/4 of the king sized space) outta the bed!

I was just sitting here thinking about a failed relationship.

One of the most frustrating of my life. The woman would talk in riddles, write poetry (bad at that), never answer direct questions, and just constantly avoid serious discussions. Then get upset with me because I just didn't understand her at all! Oh I understood her alright, she wanted it to always be about her needs and her idea of submission. We didn't discuss what I wanted but what she wanted me to want.

There is something in me that draws women like this. They first come across as intelligent and independent but end up being very selfish and self centred. I think that for these women submission is a way to avoid any responsibility for the work a relationship involves. I have had to examine myself alot and what I am doing to create this, why did I allow it to even begin.........veddy interesting.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:34:10 PM   
Asraii


Posts: 91
Status: offline 		I doubt that there is anyone who could know me better than I know myself; even my past partners. Let's face it, ( for myself )  there are just some things that one NEVER tells another, I don't care how deep your relationship is. Something is always hidden.
 
 

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:45:55 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think how well someone knows you has nothing to do with the amount of power you grant them.  Abusers have a great deal of power, as do cops and teachers in their own way and most don't really know who they are dealing with.

As for "knowing" someone the understanding of archetypes and their psychology as Pedriag has mentioned is important.  For me, I think that in addition (and I am sure others have other additions, this isn't me being "more" than others) to that I use my skills honed from keeping two self centered and manipulative parents happy (not alcoholics but angry and passive aggressive) honed a sense that is clearly not psychic but is highly perceptive and provides me with real ability to read certain things.

Plus years in the scene watching my women and many many others go through things, many of us have sort of "seen it all" and can bring that knowledge to bear as well.

(in reply to Asraii)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 7:56:14 PM   
DarkDreams123


Posts: 74
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Puella,

Interesting post. Since I agree with what several others have said about this topic, I will not simply repeat what they have said (they have probably said it better that I could have anyway! Nods to spanklette, Padriag and KnightofMists).

However, I would like to address one point that you have raised. You asked if there could ever be real TPE, no limits, no boundaries.

First, let me confess my ignorance. I have never been in a 24/7, TPE relationship. That said, let me go ahead and "tread where angels fear to tread."

I don't believe that there is such a thing as Total Power Exchange. I believe that every human being is ultimately responsible for their own self. You cannot give this responsibility away.

The Law certainly recognizes this. If a Dominant/Master commanded a submissive/slave to commit a crime, the law would not accept the defense that "he/she told me to do it."

I think that is why there is the discussion of a submissive's/slave's limits.

Now, I do agree in Partial Power Exchange. Actually, I think when people are talking about TPE, what they really mean is PPE.

Now I have confessed my ignorance. Is someone here willing to enlighten me?

-DarkDreams

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:16:17 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Based upon what Padriag has said, which I absolutely agree with, and what many submissives have said, one could almost then assume that a sub/slave is more "me" focused and wants a dominant to be more focused on their sub/slave than themself and their own needs. In this light one would almost wonder who serves whom.


Ooooooooh! You almost said "top from the bottom"! I'm tellin'! (I couldn't resist)
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:23:19 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		we all have emotional, intellectual and and spiritual blind spots, and the folks that are closest to us are the ones that can assist in pointing those out....however it is fallacy to feel a person knows some one better then they know themselves, arrogant, insolent, ignorant fallacy...and one treads there at their own peril.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to amiciaN)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:26:27 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

There is something in me that draws women like this. They first come across as intelligent and independent but end up being very selfish and self centred. I think that for these women submission is a way to avoid any responsibility for the work a relationship involves. I have had to examine myself alot and what I am doing to create this, why did I allow it to even begin.........veddy interesting.



If you will excuse the over-generalization please, we get into relationships, especially the ones that smack us backward (with luuuuvvvv) early on, because we are trying to repair old wounds. These people have many characteristics of someone who was extremely important to us in the past, although the conscious mind does not notice these tiny details. This is "old brain" stuff.

Make a list of how this person is similar to Caregiver X, or write down individual appealing characteristics of Love Interest Y and compare it to someone important in your past (most typically a parental-type person). It's an eye-opener.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:27:46 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		I don't want to hijack the thread, however, I would like to answer your post.
 
I live in a TPE, where I trust my Dominant not to order me to commit a crime, jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, or do anything that I am ultimately uncomfortable with...which means anything He is uncomfortable with, such as me committing a crime or jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge...it's all one big happy D/s circle. 

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to DarkDreams123)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:41:25 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I think together, my Master and I know me better than either of us as individuals do/did.  It has taken both of us to dig through the layers of brick and morter I spent so many years constructing.  In his wisdom taught me to look inward, and together we both discovered some great things I've been hiding :)

Aside from that, there are some areas where he knows me better, such as my capabilities.  There are areas I know better, which is the way I feel when I'm pained or joyous, etc.  He certainly can not live and feel my history like I did, but he can offer perspectives on where I am today as a result.

We're in this together, and I serve him better as a result, which is of course the focus of our relationship.  In our team effort, it doesn't really come up anymore, as to who knows whom better.  It's not a competition between us.  I do know his decisions for me are better than any outsider's decisions for me, however.

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 8:48:54 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, for me there is that. I don't know if I would single out responsbility for self, for me it is responsbility for outcomes in general..decisions/choices...all of it really stresses me out and has since I was a very young child. I struggle with knowing what the right thing to do is (what the other person wants me to do) or what will make them the most happy. I would imagine I'm not alone but I doubt anyone else will admit it. My owner is a far better manager of me than I ever was. There is no shame in admitting that, we all have our strengths and our weaknesses, we compensate for them in a variety of ways. Being owned provides me with the management I need and because it is just* him* to manage, problem solve and make the decisions as much as possible my needs get met as by-product of who he is and who he would be regardless of my strengths or areas of weakness.

I don't think my owner is all-knowing, he does the best he can in any given situation though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists 

nods...

another thought that just came up in discussion with kyra and myself.   For some... who project this "All Knowing Master" BS... one has to wonder if their is not some motivating factor of dumping their responsibilities of self. 


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: I know better than YOU - 4/23/2007 9:37:20 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

My owner is a far better manager of me than I ever was. There is no shame in admitting that, we all have our strengths and our weaknesses, we compensate for them in a variety of ways.


I share the same sentiment, Chewsie, and there is no shame in it at all.  He and I both recognize it, and it gives him satisfaction to manage me as he does.  He wouldn't do it if it didn't.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 60
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