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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:20:09 PM   
WingedMercury


Posts: 93
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I don't want people praying for me. Not only are they, by implication, insulting me, but they are belittling themselves. It's a lose-lose situation as far as I am concerned. It might make them feel better, but then strawberry and icecream might make them feel better too.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:20:52 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
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quote:

I have asked people to please not add me to their delusions when they have offered to pray for me.

when i offer that, i'm doing it out of concern....theres no need to insult someone by saying they are delusional for offering it

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:21:37 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		What's wrong with prayer in school or where you feel the need,our fore fathers prayed at work, at home, where there was a call for it.WE as Americans are way to consider of other religions,do you think the Muslims would let us pray in public in their land.hell no..There is a thread running on here titled"can you serve a master and  God"MY answer is yes for God is my Master..just the views of this ol" master

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 4/24/2007 6:22:32 PM >

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:22:23 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Prayer in schools? How about parents being responsible for raising their children, and being involved with their education? How many parents actually soend time doing something with their kids? How many actually pick up their kids textbooks and read them, to see what their kids are studying? How many actually add more academic things for their kids to do?


I can answer all those in the case of my son, I am responsible for him and I did all those things. I gave him core curriculum books before they were assigned. I volunteered at his school, I took an interest in his life... a lot of other parents did these things too.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:22:30 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I have a huge problem with prayer in public school.  A moment of silence isn't offensive, prayer is offensive.  


I had a nitwit in our union who was elected the Steward for Class-B Longshoreman.

He would open every meeting with a prayer.

A bunch of people wrote him nice letters and told him that it is illegal for an employer to force a person to go to a work meeting and then subject them to one's religion.  These were atheists, agnostics, Jews, muslims, whatever.

He threw a tantrum.

Finally, the people started sending the letters to the union President.

So the guy comes back in all chastened and tells people we will have a moment of silence instead.

Sure, ok.  In the words of the goalie from the movie SlapShot, "Two minute in de box, you feel shame.  Den you are free!"

We have our moment of silence. 

At the end of this, for three meetings, he says "AMEN" into the microphone.

One of my buddies, a Jehovah's Witness, contacts the ACLU who points out to our union president the legality of this behavior on the part of the steward.

Have not seen the Steward since.

Sinergy

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:23:27 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		we had prayer in school when i was growing up...i used to look around at everyone when they did it...i still do.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:27:12 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
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From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav
in your opinion prayer is offensive. btw .....when i hear someone has troubles or a sick family member and say "i'll pray for you/them" i have never heard anyone say OMG i'm soooo offended.



I think it, just as I think it when I hear "Bless your heart," "God bless you," or any other non-consensual inclusion in their kink.

Besides, if they allowed prayer in schools, kids would not shoot kids, I would.  And some teachers.  And whoever made that decision. 

Call me Torquemada, but with the right side in mind.

Yours,


benji

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:29:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As others have said, I'm fine with allowing students time to rest, time to play, time to be quiet and do whatever their little minds want to do for a few moments.

I'm completely against any specific religious observance.

This doesn't mean I want to not let kids show up in halloween costumes and have a party, or have to call something a "seasonal tree"- education and fun of all cultural observations is great and school is certainly the place for them. 

But we should keep church separate from state, and unless you're willing to let a satanist say what they want, along with every other religious or spiritual form of expression out there- it's no go.  YOu can't sanction just one type of religious expression.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 6:56:58 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		I think that the Gawd is out of the Society, and that there isn't going to be any of this shoving him back in business.

Hollyweird feels it has to get more grotesque and graphic with each new film (even kids' cartoons) and I don't know how anyone will ever become more desensitized than many kids have become these days. Video games are all about killing... and there is no real compelling reason to exercise morality except to stay out of jail. It seems that if you can do it without going to jail, today's mindset says go ahead and do it. After all, if Gawd can't catch you, nothing can, and there ain't no Gawd.

Right?

Like I said in 'the other thread' I'm not religious, and this is just an observation on my part... and I don't have a fix for it. I think that society will inevitably get worse without the Gawd factor, and who knows where the bottom is.

I don't.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/24/2007 6:58:16 PM >

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:01:39 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Then you are doing a good job as a parent. Too bad that is actually the minority of parents.

As to the prayer thing. There is no official prayer in school, and that should stay that way. Religious persecution was one of the things our founding fathers did not want to see the government support. People in the government can be religious, the government is a servant of all of the people. Religion and belief is a personal choice, not a governmental one.

An elective on world religions would not be a bad thing to have in the schools though. this would allow those that wished to learn about it to do so. Also, religion is a part of the development of man and should be looked at from a sociological perspective. Belief is needed by many people, and many do not need it. it does not make one better or worse, just different. I love it when someone call belief a fairytale, since it cannot be proven. I always ask them to prove to me that love exists.

Prayer in schools is a distraction topic to me though. If you want to be concerned about something in schools, then examine the indoctrination that is occuring from our government. Revisionist history about the principles the country were actually founded on. How many school kids actually know the form of government we are supposed to have? How many believe that giving up their personal property for the common good (government) is how things should be? If people want to be concerned about things in the public schools, there is a hell of alot more than prayer to be concerned about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Prayer in schools? How about parents being responsible for raising their children, and being involved with their education? How many parents actually soend time doing something with their kids? How many actually pick up their kids textbooks and read them, to see what their kids are studying? How many actually add more academic things for their kids to do?


I can answer all those in the case of my son, I am responsible for him and I did all those things. I gave him core curriculum books before they were assigned. I volunteered at his school, I took an interest in his life... a lot of other parents did these things too.


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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:02:02 PM   
aSlavesLife


Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

I have asked people to please not add me to their delusions when they have offered to pray for me.

when i offer that, i'm doing it out of concern....theres no need to insult someone by saying they are delusional for offering it



And they need to insult me by offering to drag me into their delusion? After all, Jesus says ( Matt 6:5 ) to pray in private rather than announce your prayers. If prayer really works, I don't need to know about it. Only the invisible sky fairy needs to hear it.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:06:48 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		So you feel insulted and offended? It is wrong to insult and offend you? Then you turn around and are offensive yourself? By doing that you validate that which you object to.

Prayer is good thoughts. If someone says they are praying for you then use a filter such as "I wish you well and hope you will do better". The sentiment is actually the same.


quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

I have asked people to please not add me to their delusions when they have offered to pray for me.

when i offer that, i'm doing it out of concern....theres no need to insult someone by saying they are delusional for offering it



And they need to insult me by offering to drag me into their delusion? After all, Jesus says ( Matt 6:5 ) to pray in private rather than announce your prayers. If prayer really works, I don't need to know about it. Only the invisible sky fairy needs to hear it.


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:06:54 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

kids would not shoot kids, I would. 



Somebody has to, as you know.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:08:13 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		As someone who prays (regularly wondering if it's delusional, but that's another story), I'm not wild about the idea of prayer in public schools. A prayer that everyone in our diverse society could come anywhere close to agreeing on would have to be heartbreakingly banal. I hate the thought of teaching kids that "prayer" is some mandated, mumbled formality between the pledge of allegiance and the announcements.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:09:32 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Much like recycling.  If we don't, the bums will for us.

Yours,


benji

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:12:14 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

As someone who prays (regularly wondering if it's delusional, but that's another story), I'm not wild about the idea of prayer in public schools. A prayer that everyone in our diverse society could come anywhere close to agreeing on would have to be heartbreakingly banal. I hate the thought of teaching kids that "prayer" is some mandated, mumbled formality between the pledge of allegiance and the announcements.


And may good things, or bad, befall those you may or may not enjoy the company of, oh great, or small, questionably exisiting, visible or invisible force or being or other entity. 

Yours,


benji

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:14:33 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I personally don't see any big deal over prayer in school as long as the prayers are all directed towards some magical  vagina with huge spotted butterfly wings as labia.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:14:37 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And may good things, or bad, befall those you may or may not enjoy the company of, oh great, or small, questionably exisiting, visible or invisible force or being or other entity.


Precisely.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 4/24/2007 7:17:01 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:15:09 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		i believe it is overall well wishes to that individual on a spiritual level. i feel more it is about a person caring about another rather than putting it on some "God". 

minnetar

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: prayer in schools - 4/24/2007 7:15:41 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I think that the Gawd is out of the Society,


You know what we call people for whom their G-d is more important than anything, they've make their religious laws binding upon society?

Muslim Fundamentalists.

Whatever it takes to keep Sharia Law out of our lives, it's worth the price to be free.

If you're going to set aside 5 minutes for people to pray to Jesus together, you gotta set aside an hour for the Buddhists to meditate, and THEN you need to let the Muslims do whatever they want!



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/24/2007 7:17:17 PM >

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